Can I posess/transport a frame in CT?

[ochmude]

Here's the deal. I want to refinish my 1911, but I need to media blast it first. The flight school that I go to every weekend has often let me use the equipment in their maintenance shop for various projects, and they said it was fine for me to use their blaster on my slide and frame. I'm wondering, though, if it would be legal for me to actually bring the stripped down slide and frame down there to work on them. I don't have a permit for CT. Any thoughts?

 

[buketduder]

I don't see why you could not...although I don't know what the definition of "Firearm" is in CT..

Sec. 29-27. "Pistol" and "revolver" defined. The term "pistol" and the term "revolver", as used in sections 29-28 to 29-38, inclusive, mean any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches in length.

Also

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

 

[tmitney]

Who knows.... And there is no [practical] way to get a conclusive answer. We'll add this question to "the list." IMHO I can't see you getting convicted for just having a frame... That probably doesn't make you feel any better....

 

[kerismo]

The frame is the serial numbered part and therefore a firearm. Just as my new Deleware ar15 lowers are full fledged firearms here in CT.

That being said if it is being brought in for the repair that juat might fly, give the DPS a call or email (no seriously)

 

[Dmac82]

My guess is you are covered under this part of the Law that BuketDuder sited above :

or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired

I also believe that the frame being Striped OR Complete, Regardless of slide and other parts is considered a Fire Arm, because it is ready to accept parts (another words its does not need any machining and thus is 100% finished as a FRAME or LOWER)

I would also guess that if you follow transportation for pistols (Locked and non-accessible (trunk)) that having a striped frame would cause little alarm from Police). Anthing shy of case study is just speculation, but you do have a Permit for the state u reside, and are getting it "repaired".

 

[GSG]

IMO it doesn't sound legal. I'm no lawyer though...apply for that non-res. permit!

 

[dcmdon]

Here's the deal. I want to refinish my 1911, but I need to media blast it first. The flight school that I go to every weekend has often let me use the equipment in their maintenance shop for various projects, and they said it was fine for me to use their blaster on my slide and frame. I'm wondering, though, if it would be legal for me to actually bring the stripped down slide and frame down there to work on them. I don't have a permit for CT. Any thoughts?

This is definitely not legal. The frame is a firearm and that firearm is a "pistol or revolver".

With that said, I doubt anyone would give you any trouble. I wouldn't flaunt it, but I think common sense would prevail. I suggest that you do the frame and slide on different days so that when you have the frame in your posession, you do not have any other parts.

Again, this is technically illegal, but I think it represents reasonable actions.

I had a similar problem in 1998 when I was shooting the IDPA S&W winter nationals in Springield. By law, my gun had to stay locked up my hotel room.

I had an ethical problem with that. The gun must remain under my control at all times. What i did was remove the slide and carry the frame with me in my inside jacket pocket when I went out for the evening. It was a glock, so the frame only weighed 2 or 3 oz.

Was I legal? No. Was I worried? No. I was carrying a harmless piece of plastic in my jacket. If someone wanted to bust me for that, they were welcome to. By posting this , I'm obviously now worried about it. Sometimes the law doesn't take into accont all all eventualities.

my suggestion would be to take any steps you can to mitigate things. i.e. frame only with no other parts, gun in the trunk, in a locked container.

Don
p.s. Where are you taking flying lessons? Brainerd?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Was I legal? No.

Actually, it may have been since a frame is not a firearm under MGL. Since you were not from MA, you probably aren't familiar with the concept of the federal and state definition of firearm being different. I don't know if the addition of the internal parts to the frame make it a firearm under MGL but, based on the definition, the answer is probably no.

As to "had to leave it in the hotel room" - there is no requirement in MGL that states this. The non-resident exemption states you may bring a firearms in to MA for the purpose of attending a match or exhibition of arms collectors provided you have a permit in a state that does not issue permits to drug users or felons, however, there is nothing that places specific restrictions like "must be in hotel room when not travelling directly to the range". The law simply states that you must be in MA for the specific purpose (see MGL ch 140 sec 131G for details).

As to "must remain under your control at all times" - nope. It must be "securely stored" when not under your direct control. A trigger lock meets this requirement.

 

[tmitney]

"Firearm" means any sawed-off shotgun, machine gun, rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or other weapon, whether loaded or unloaded from which a shot may be discharged
"Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches


Open to interpretation, I guess. There is no State determination (in statutes) that I am aware of that makes the receivver itself "the firearm" as in federal law. There may be case law in CT that does, but as far as the statute...it is what it is.

 

[JustinEMT990662]

If the gun is not capable of discharging a shot, you are fine and it is legal as it does not meet the definitions provided in the CTGS

Sec. 29-27. "Pistol" and "revolver" defined. The term "pistol" and the term "revolver", as used in sections 29-28 to 29-38, inclusive, mean any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches in length.

Sec. 53a-3. Definitions
...
(6) "Deadly weapon" means any weapon, whether loaded or unloaded, from which a shot may be discharged, or a switchblade knife, gravity knife, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, or metal knuckles. The definition of "deadly weapon" in this subdivision shall be deemed not to apply to section 29-38 or 53-206;
...
(18) "Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches;
....
(19) "Firearm" means any sawed-off shotgun, machine gun, rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or other weapon, whether loaded or unloaded from which a shot may be discharged;

So, based on the above, you're fine. If the gun is stripped and dismantled, it clearly cannot fire a shot. As such, it is not considered a firearm under the CTGS. To say it is would be akin to saying that a stock is a firearm.

 

[Big_Red]

ochmude, why not get a CT non-res permit. You are in CT every weekend so to me that would be a no-brainer. I know that this doesn't satisfy your immediate need but with a permit you won't have to worry about stuff like that.

 

[ochmude]

ochmude, why not get a CT non-res permit. You are in CT every weekend so to me that would be a no-brainer. I know that this doesn't satisfy your immediate need but with a permit you won't have to worry about stuff like that.

Honestly, I've been sitting on a blank non-res application for over a year now and I've been severely procrastinating about it. I think, just to avoid any chance of being a "test case", I will just use this situation as the incentive I need to actually fill out the app.

 

[GSG]

To the OP, I did some more digging into Chapter 529 of the Connecticut General Statutes, with clickable links so you can review my logic for errors.

To anyone reading, I'm jumping back and forth between Connecticut, Massachusetts and Federal laws here, so try not to get too confused.

There's three areas of CT law that would come into play in my opinion (and keep in mind, I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV).

Chapter 529 Section 29-27 defines a pistol or revolver in regards to CT's carrying/transportation/weapon in vehicle laws:

Sec. 29-27. "Pistol" and "revolver" defined. The term "pistol" and the term "revolver", as used in sections 29-28 to 29-38, inclusive, mean any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches in length.

That's a little vague, but absent any case law on the subject, I could easily see the prosecution falling back on the federal definition of a firearm (i.e. the frame), since Mass. is the only state I'm aware of in the US that doesn't consider a stripped frame a firearm.

Chapter 529 Section 29-35 (carrying without a permit) doesn't seem like it would apply to you if you were transporting somewhere other than "on your person," and it doesn't sound like you'd meet any of the exemptions listed there.

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

(b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section 29-28 shall carry such permit upon one's person while carrying such pistol or revolver.

Next would be Chapter 529 Section 29-38, "Weapons in Vehicles":

Sec. 29-38. Weapons in vehicles. (a) Any person who knowingly has, in any vehicle owned, operated or occupied by such person, any weapon, any pistol or revolver for which a proper permit has not been issued as provided in section 29-28 or any machine gun which has not been registered as required by section 53-202, shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than five years or both, and the presence of any such weapon, pistol or revolver, or machine gun in any vehicle shall be prima facie evidence of a violation of this section by the owner, operator and each occupant thereof. The word "weapon", as used in this section, means any BB. gun, any blackjack, any metal or brass knuckles, any police baton or nightstick, any dirk knife or switch knife, any knife having an automatic spring release device by which a blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches in length, any stiletto, any knife the edged portion of the blade of which is four inches or over in length, any martial arts weapon or electronic defense weapon, as defined in section 53a-3, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (1) Any officer charged with the preservation of the public peace while engaged in the pursuit of such officer's official duties; (2) any security guard having a baton or nightstick in a vehicle while engaged in the pursuit of such guard's official duties; (3) any person enrolled in and currently attending a martial arts school, with official verification of such enrollment and attendance, or any certified martial arts instructor, having any such martial arts weapon in a vehicle while traveling to or from such school or to or from an authorized event or competition; (4) any person having a BB. gun in a vehicle provided such weapon is unloaded and stored in the trunk of such vehicle or in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console; and (5) any person having a knife, the edged portion of the blade of which is four inches or over in length, in a vehicle if such person is (A) any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or any reserve component thereof, or of the armed forces of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, (B) any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, (C) any person while transporting such knife as merchandise or for display at an authorized gun or knife show, (D) any person while lawfully removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or from one residence to another, (E) any person while actually and peaceably engaged in carrying any such knife from such person's place of abode or business to a place or person where or by whom such knife is to be repaired, or while actually and peaceably returning to such person's place of abode or business with such knife after the same has been repaired, (F) any person holding a valid hunting, fishing or trapping license issued pursuant to chapter 490 or any salt water fisherman while having such knife in a vehicle for lawful hunting, fishing or trapping activities, or (G) any person participating in an authorized historic reenactment.

Two things that are important there. One, it's a felony (keeping in mind the above definition of "pistol or revolver"). Two, it includes the term "or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument," which even if it isn't vague enough to result in a conviction certainly sounds vague enough to result in an arrest in the presence of a cop who's having a bad day.

The last part that I found interesting is Connecticut's version of The Firearms Owner Protection Act of 1986), which is Chapter 529 Section 29-38d:

Sec. 29-38d. Interstate transportation of firearms through state. (a) The provisions of sections 29-35 and 29-38 shall not apply to the interstate transportation of firearms through this state in accordance with 18 USC 926A and 927, as amended from time to time, by any person who is not otherwise prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving or possessing a firearm. Such person may transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where such person may lawfully possess and carry such firearm through this state to any other place where such person may lawfully possess and carry such firearm provided such transportation is in accordance with subsection (b) of this section.

(b) During the transportation of a firearm through this state as authorized in subsection (a) of this section, such firearm shall be unloaded and neither such firearm nor any ammunition being transported shall be readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such firearm shall be unloaded and such firearm and any ammunition being transported shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

(c) No person who is transporting a firearm through this state in accordance with this section may use or carry such firearm or sell, deliver or otherwise transfer such firearm while in this state.

Then the last part of that law says that you cannot "use or carry," which (absent any case law) "use" could probably be extended to taking it out of it's locked case. I know this wouldn't apply to you since driving to CT isn't "interstate travel," but I thought it was worth mentioning.

That's the long answer. The short(er) answer is that CT is a state like PA, where without an LTC you are very limited in where you can even legally transport a gun unloaded in the trunk of your car. Because of this, most cops will probably just have a mantra like "LTC required if it's anywhere in the car," and you could wind up in handcuffs even if you were exempt, which I don't think you are. That, coupled with the gray area of definitions sounds like a recipe for disaster if you contacted LE.

Shortest answer: a non-res. LTC should prevent us from reading about a new case law titled "ochmude v. Connecticut," and your resulting legal fees.

 

[GSG]

I had a similar problem in 1998 when I was shooting the IDPA S&W winter nationals in Springield. By law, my gun had to stay locked up my hotel room.

I had an ethical problem with that. The gun must remain under my control at all times. What i did was remove the slide and carry the frame with me in my inside jacket pocket when I went out for the evening. It was a glock, so the frame only weighed 2 or 3 oz.

Was I legal? No. Was I worried? No. I was carrying a harmless piece of plastic in my jacket. If someone wanted to bust me for that, they were welcome to. By posting this , I'm obviously now worried about it. Sometimes the law doesn't take into accont all all eventualities.

Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 140 Section 131G simply states the following:

Chapter 140: Section 131G. Carrying of firearms by non-residents; conditions


Section 131G. Any person who is not a resident of the commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearm collectors or for the purpose of hunting; provided, that such person is a resident of the United States and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of hunting, he has on his person a hunting or sporting license issued by the commonwealth or by the state of his destination. Police officers and other peace officers of any state, territory or jurisdiction within the United States duly authorized to possess firearms by the laws thereof shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have a permit or license to carry firearms as described in this section.

If you click here you can read the research that I did into that area of Mass. law. Now the legality of what you did depends on when you were in Mass. in 1998 (if it was before the laws changed in October than I can't comment). But what I've seen is that when you call the Mass. State Police, the instructions they give you on the phone about the laws will have more to do with their understanding or interpretation of the law than what the law actually says.

And for what it's worth, I agree with what Rob Boudrie posted on the subject above.

So, based on the above, you're fine. If the gun is stripped and dismantled, it clearly cannot fire a shot. As such, it is not considered a firearm under the CTGS. To say it is would be akin to saying that a stock is a firearm.

The issue here is that Sections 29-28 to 29-38 are defined by the definition in Section 29-27, not the definition in 53a-3, so the "capable of firing a shot" stuff doesn't apply.

Honestly, I've been sitting on a blank non-res application for over a year now and I've been severely procrastinating about it. I think, just to avoid any chance of being a "test case", I will just use this situation as the incentive I need to actually fill out the app.

Two things. If you've had the app for awhile, you should call 860-685-8494 to make sure that it's still current. DPS increased their fees for requesting police reports in October of 2009, so it stands to reason that they may have increased some of the LTC related fees as well. Also, I've heard the process goes much faster if you apply in person, so you wouldn't have to wait as long to mess with your gun.

 

[corpsegrinder1981]

Here's the deal. I want to refinish my 1911, but I need to media blast it first. The flight school that I go to every weekend has often let me use the equipment in their maintenance shop for various projects, and they said it was fine for me to use their blaster on my slide and frame. I'm wondering, though, if it would be legal for me to actually bring the stripped down slide and frame down there to work on them. I don't have a permit for CT. Any thoughts?

from the legal def being that the parts are considered a gun you need a temp permit to transport.its basically the hey i want a cc permit but need a "learners permit"any sale/trade/transport of a pistol here must be accompanied by one of those2 options.personally i wouldn't give a 2nd thought to it but i tell others stick on the safe side

 

[JustinEMT990662]

EDIT - Rewrote for clarity.

In Chapter 29, there is no definition for 'firearm'. When lacking a definition within a specific chapter, a definition from within the penal or criminal code (or anywhere else in the CTGS as far as I know) can be used with the exception that the two are not explicit or in conflict. Examples:

1. If one chapter has a definition stating a firearm must fire a shot, and another chapter has a definition stating the action of the weapon is a firearm, the two would be in conflict. Unless one definition is specifically constrained to a given chapter, either one could be argued in court.

2. If one definition is specifically constrained to one chapter, then it (in theory) would not be applied to another chapter where another definition which is not constrained could be. You could still argue the conflict in court, but would likely lose that argument.

In either case, when no definition exists which is suitable, the definition would be left to case law and failing that, the commonly accepted meaning of the word. If you lookup 'firearm' you get: n. A weapon, especially a pistol or rifle, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant. If the gun is not capable of firing a shot, you are fine.

Best bet, get the OOS LTC ... much easier to avoid issues. TBH, I REALLY don't think you would have any issues. Like I said, if you start to consider a frame a firearm, or a barrel, or a slide ... well it's a slippery slope. You could claim a stock is a firearm, or perhaps a tigger (extreme I know, but with the way things are taken to extreme in this state, I could see it happening.)

 

[GSG]

from the legal def being that the parts are considered a gun you need a temp permit to transport.its basically the hey i want a cc permit but need a "learners permit"any sale/trade/transport of a pistol here must be accompanied by one of those2 options.personally i wouldn't give a 2nd thought to it but i tell others stick on the safe side

The OP is a Massachusetts resident visiting CT, and as far as I know, temporary CT permits are only available to actual residents of CT, while non-residents have to apply for a Connecticut State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers.

In Chapter 29, there is no definition for 'firearm'. When lacking a definition within a specific chapter, a definition from within the penal or criminal code (or anywhere else in the CTGS as far as I know) can be used with the exception that the two are not explicit or in conflict. Examples:

1. If one chapter has a definition stating a firearm must fire a shot, and another chapter has a definition stating the action of the weapon is a firearm, the two would be in conflict. Unless one definition is specifically constrained to a given chapter, either one could be argued in court.

2. If one definition is specifically constrained to one chapter, then it (in theory) would not be applied to another chapter where another definition which is not constrained could be. You could still argue the conflict in court, but would likely lose that argument.

In either case, when no definition exists which is suitable, the definition would be left to case law and failing that, the commonly accepted meaning of the word. If you lookup 'firearm' you get: n. A weapon, especially a pistol or rifle, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant.

While I understand that you're statement here applies to Mass. laws in general (where I've done a great amount of research/reading), I'm honestly not that familiar with CT statutory law or case law, so I can't give a whole lot of info on that subject other than what I already have. But what I think is important is the definitions section, which states

Sec. 29-27. "Pistol" and "revolver" defined. The term "pistol" and the term "revolver", as used in sections 29-28 to 29-38, inclusive, mean any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches in length.

Since the 29-35 and 29-38 violations which he's trying to avoid are judged based on the above definition, I think that's the most important one to follow.

Best bet, get the OOS LTC ... much easier to avoid issues. TBH, I REALLY don't think you would have any issues.

If the OP had a lot of free time and money to spend defending himself against felony charges in court, chances are his only concern would be whether or not his behavior would result in a conviction. But considering the great cost, stress and inconvenience associated with getting arrested on firearms charges in today's day and age, there's a lot at stake here.

While I agree with you that there's a very slim chance that this would ever become an issue in ordinary circumstances involving a reasonable police officer familiar with the ins and out of CT law, when it comes to gun law discussions I would rather risk interpreting the law wrong by playing it safe than risk interpreting the law wrong when someone could get charged/convicted criminally based on my advice.

Like I said, if you start to consider a frame a firearm, or a barrel, or a slide ... well it's a slippery slope. You could claim a stock is a firearm, or perhaps a tigger (extreme I know, but with the way things are taken to extreme in this state, I could see it happening.)

The issue here is that in federal law (specifically US Code Title 18 Chapter 44 Section 921(a)3) defines a firearm as the following:

(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

As far as I know, Massachusetts is the only state in the US where state law doesn't consider the stripped frame of a firearm to be a firearm, so to say that a frame is a firearm under state law is a much more reasonable suggestion than to say that a trigger is a firearm, since it is true in the US in almost every case.

But with that said, I agree with you about the "slippery slope," since currently the ATF considers a shoestring to be a machinegun (link here) . This is why we need to legislate to redefine or eliminate many of the gun laws in the US, to bring them in line with the Constitution and to simplify them to the point that you don't need to hire a laywer to find out if having a piece of metal in your trunk is a felony or not.

And with all that said, I appreciate our discussion here.

 

[JustinEMT990662]

The statutes I quoted are from CT. CT defines firearm in the penal code. You should recheck what I say before you reply to it.

 

[buketduder]

Back to my original post...CT has an exception for "Carrying" or "transporting" a pistol to get it repaired...He may transport it into the state for that reason...no permit needed..to the OP..you are fine..you may consult a lawyer if you want a legal opinion

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

 

[GSG]

The statutes I quoted are from CT. CT defines firearm in the penal code. You should recheck what I say before you reply to it.

Easy there fella. One more time for you:

Section 29-27

"Pistol" and "revolver" defined. The term "pistol" and the term "revolver", as used in sections 29-28 to 29-38, inclusive, mean any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches in length.

Back to my original post...CT has an exception for "Carrying" or "transporting" a pistol to get it repaired...He may transport it into the state for that reason...no permit needed..to the OP..you are fine..you may consult a lawyer if you want a legal opinion

But doesn't repair imply that the gun is broken?

 

[buketduder]

It is being "repaired"...it needs to be refinished..

 

[GSG]

It is being "repaired"...it needs to be refinished..

It sounds a little bit shaky, that's all.

 

[JustinEMT990662]

Easy there fella. One more time for you:

Section 29-27
"Pistol" and "revolver" defined. The term "pistol" and the term "revolver", as used in sections 29-28 to 29-38, inclusive, mean any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches in length.

You said it again, I don't think you're grasping it ... a FIREARM with a barrel less that 12 inches ... keyword here is FIREARM ....

In the penal code a firearm is described as a weapon from a shot can be fired. So it does not meet the standards for firearm. If it does meet the requirement for being considered a firearm, then that statute does not apply.

Let's quote some statutes ... again ....

The CTGS Penal Code 53a-5(6):
(6) "Deadly weapon" means any weapon, whether loaded or unloaded, from which a shot may be discharged, or a switchblade knife, gravity knife, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, or metal knuckles. The definition of "deadly weapon" in this subdivision shall be deemed not to apply to section 29-38 or 53-206;

Well 29-38 is weapons in vehicles. It does not define but uses the phrase pistol or revolver ... this would be your definition.

The CTGS Penal Code 53a-5(18):
(18) "Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches;

Not it's the SAME terminology as the definition in section 29. Note it says FIREARM.

The CTGS Penal Code 53a-5(19):
(19) "Firearm" means any sawed-off shotgun, machine gun, rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or other weapon, whether loaded or unloaded from which a shot may be discharged;

From which a shot may be fired.... a firearm must fire a shot ... so let's break this down easily:

1. A pistol frame with no tigger, barrel, slide, hammer, etc ... is not capable of firing a shot.
2. If it can't fire a shot, it is not a firearm. This is why a stock or barrel or tigger or grip is not a firearm. They are parts.
3. If it's not a firearm, the law which defines the pistol does not apply since it states a pistol is a firearm.
4. If it's not a pistol, he is fine.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, just getting very frustrated with this. I understand where you are coming from, but you have to bear in mind that just because pistol is defined, doesn't mean that this is a pistol. You have to look at the full definition. Since not definition for firearm is listed in section 29, you would default to a general definition within the CTGS. Given that this definition is within the penal code itself, and has the same definition for pistol and revolver, you could easily infer that the definition for firearm listed there could apply anywhere that uses the term within the CTGS and there is not a definition for it within that section.

 

[GSG]

Whoa, forgot about this thread.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, just getting very frustrated with this. I understand where you are coming from, but you have to bear in mind that just because pistol is defined, doesn't mean that this is a pistol. You have to look at the full definition.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification and correction.