calling all ar guys.......help!!!

[jerryhipp]

okay i just built a psa ar-10 lower and bought a complete psa upper. well i went to wprc today to sight it in and click......nothing. pull out the bolt carrier to make sure the firing pin is good and everything is free flowing and it's good. so i try again and click.....nothing! the firing pin isn't even hitting the primer at all. so i checked to make sure i didn't mess up anything on the lower build. nope good. then i try one more time and same thing. then i notice the bolt isn't going fully forward when a round goes in the barrel. without a round it goes forward fine. when it chambers a round it wont go all the way forward. short buy about a inch to 3/4 inch. but the round does go fully in. but the bolt doesn't. wtf is this? i'm stumped here. im fairly new at these so i don't know all that much and am hoping this is a simple issue that someone can explain to me like ar's for dummies. and not a you got hosed by psa type situation. please help guys. and anyone from wprc who could look at it would be awesome too.

 

[familyman15]

Head space check?

 

[boscru]

well i'm as far from an expert as can be, but the bcg i bought from psa required a good clean & lube before using

 

[jerryhipp]

i did notice the bcg was leaving a good burr on the rim of the casings

 

[BigMoby]

I had this happen to me with my new ar15 build. Spikes lower bcm upper and bcm boltcg. Gun was lubed up good and click no fire. Pulled charge handle bullet flew out examined with no primer strike or very very light. Tried again and same thing. Ok, yah a little nervous at that point and figure ok let me rack the charging handle back and let it go hard. Then hit forward assist a couple times. Pulled trigger and went boom finally. Never happened again after 300 rounds that day. Honestly I think it was just so new and I wasn't letting the charging handle go and really getting the round chambered with bolt fully forward. Just a thought and my personal experience hopefully that's all it is. Bcm head spaces all uppers with the bcg when you order them so never had a spacing issue. Make sure they did that on yours.
good luck

 

[jerryhipp]

thank you. i did make sure everything is clean. and empty the bcg goes back and forth fine. its just when it loads a round it wont go forward all the way. and i did try to push it forward some. but was alittle afraid to use much force.

 

[dcmdon]

First of all, the hammer should not drop if the gun is not fully in battery. (BCG all the way forward). If the round had gone off without the BCG in battery, you'd have had a heck of a mess.

It sounds to me like you have a had space issue. But its hard to tell from your description.

Bring it to a decent gunsmith and see what he thinks.

Don

p.s. have you tried different ammo? If you use the Forward Assist, can you push the BCG all the way forward?

 

[nutsym16]

sounds like headspace problem,bolt not locking fully,hammer will drop,hits bcg,not firing pin,designed to do so it will not fire out of battery.hammer is dumb,dosn't know if bcg is in the gun or not.

 

[mac1911]

I would clean the chamber and locking lug really good. New guns are far from clean.
Don't ride the charge handle pull reward to full stop and just let it go.
PSA is not the most reliable for quality. My friends PSA BCG had a short fireing pin.
Good luck and post your results

 

[scatter]

thank you. i did make sure everything is clean. and empty the bcg goes back and forth fine. its just when it loads a round it wont go forward all the way. and i did try to push it forward some. but was alittle afraid to use much force.

How did you clean the gun and what did you use? Did you scrub the chamber with a real chamber brush? I've read lots of problems over on ARFCOM that were solved by simply cleaning the gunk out of new chambers.

 

[beaker]

I had this exact same issue with my MATEN build. I found that the 308 bolt was out of spec. Specifically the pin hole that holds the extractor was way oversized allowing the back end of the extractor to stick out causing drag inside the BCG. The extractor pin would also walk and caused the same problem. This prevented the bolt from going into battery. I actually bought a different BCG and Bolt and it functioned perfectly. I sent the original BCG back and they replaced the bolt. That also functions perfectly now.

I would look to see why the bolt isn't going into battery. Could be a burr, bolt could be out of spec, could be the barrel extension has a problem, could be the bolt carrier is dragging on an out of spec bolt catch (I have had this happen as well). Is this a DPMS pattern bolt? Where do you see the burr on cases, on the rim from the extractor?

 

[radioman]

Is there a 30cal barrel on the upper? It's not a .223 barrel is it? Or some other chambering than a 308?

 

[usp45ct]

Take the upper off the lower and see if a round will go all the way into the chamber with the barrel point down. Does the round seat all the way into the barrel? Seem like this would be a great way to check headspace.

I dont know ar10s but do they use a heavier buffer spring? What ammo are you trying to load? Reloads, factory produced or factory made? Are you riding the charging handle or letting it slam forward?

 

[jerryhipp]

okay i noticed the round isn't seating fully in the chamber. tried a different nato round still same. so i'm going to try to brush the crap out of the barrel to see if that helps. any suggestions on cleaning out the barrel enough? i have the normal brushes and snakes. is there a particular cleaner or chemical that will help?

 

[W.E.C]

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...647&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-CJ-_-10736784

 

[mac1911]

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...647&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-CJ-_-10736784

I would not go this route with a purchased upper. Clean the bore/chamber well any brush that fits into the chamber with a little resistance will do. You just want to be certain there is not a piece of shit stuck inside the chamber /neck area. I would also try a few different brands of ammo. If it will not chamber a round by letting the CH/BCG close from a full pull and release its time to send it back to PSA.

 

[jerryhipp]

I would not go this route with a purchased upper. Clean the bore/chamber well any brush that fits into the chamber with a little resistance will do. You just want to be certain there is not a piece of shit stuck inside the chamber /neck area. I would also try a few different brands of ammo. If it will not chamber a round by letting the CH/BCG close from a full pull and release its time to send it back to PSA.

unfortunately i was thinking this also. what a pain this will turnout to be if i have to return it.

 

[W.E.C]

Some of this ar stuff is like older Harley's, crap from the factory, and you make it work on your own, especially if you are "building" your own gun.

 

[scatter]

okay i noticed the round isn't seating fully in the chamber. tried a different nato round still same. so i'm going to try to brush the crap out of the barrel to see if that helps. any suggestions on cleaning out the barrel enough? i have the normal brushes and snakes. is there a particular cleaner or chemical that will help?

You need some CLP and this: http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/brushes-amp-bore-snakes/chamber-brushes/m16-ar-15-chamber-brushes-prod1234.aspx

 

[dcmdon]

sounds like headspace problem,bolt not locking fully,hammer will drop,hits bcg,not firing pin,designed to do so it will not fire out of battery.hammer is dumb,dosn't know if bcg is in the gun or not.

Yeah. thanks for correcting me on that. re hammer.

Either way, you need to find someone with a go/no-go gauge.

- - - Updated - - -

I would not go this route with a purchased upper. Clean the bore/chamber well any brush that fits into the chamber with a little resistance will do. You just want to be certain there is not a piece of shit stuck inside the chamber /neck area. I would also try a few different brands of ammo. If it will not chamber a round by letting the CH/BCG close from a full pull and release its time to send it back to PSA.

Not to mention that if this does work, you will remove the chrome plating from the chamber.

 

[Coyote33]

What happens when you use the forward assist? Isn't this what it is for?

 

[jerryhipp]

okay call me an idiot here but. here's where i am with this. i compared one of my other ar 15 uppers side by side with this ar 10 upper. the round does go in enough. im a idiot. the bolt wasn't going in far enough to get past the gear thing to turn off the side to seat in. does anyone understand my giberish? is that bolt spacing? well i pulled the firing pin and put a round in and hit the bolt and it went in. my belief is the hook thing that pulls the casing out after discharge is to tight (the spring is way to tight) so when a round is chambered the bolt won't go that mm further to hook the rim on the round. which is the mm thats needed to get past the gear thing to spin to the side to close. wow this is hard to explain when i don't know all the technical names for things. needless to say the spring for the bolt lip hook thing is to strong or has to much tension. it even leaves a good mark on the casings when it releases them. if anyone understands the retardedness i just spewed out. lo any ideas on this spring thing? i've never took apart a bolt.

 

[weekendracer]

I just finished a PSA 10 build. I can tell you everyone who has handled it came away with 'wow, that's tight'. It's hard to pull the charging handle, it slams into place. Maybe work the action a bit and see if it loosens up? Other than that, I don't have anything to add.

I didn't have any troubles other than some fail to feed issues that went away after a few loadings.

 

[scatter]

okay call me an idiot here but. here's where i am with this. i compared one of my other ar 15 uppers side by side with this ar 10 upper. the round does go in enough. im a idiot. the bolt wasn't going in far enough to get past the gear thing to turn off the side to seat in. does anyone understand my giberish? is that bolt spacing? well i pulled the firing pin and put a round in and hit the bolt and it went in. my belief is the hook thing that pulls the casing out after discharge is to tight (the spring is way to tight) so when a round is chambered the bolt won't go that mm further to hook the rim on the round. which is the mm thats needed to get past the gear thing to spin to the side to close. wow this is hard to explain when i don't know all the technical names for things. needless to say the spring for the bolt lip hook thing is to strong or has to much tension. it even leaves a good mark on the casings when it releases them. if anyone understands the retardedness i just spewed out. lo any ideas on this spring thing? i've never took apart a bolt.

Holy crap. You need to do some reading before you work on stuff. I THINK you're saying that the extractor is not slipping over the rim of the cartridge when the bolt goes home. Could be several things.
1. You're riding the charging handle down instead of letting it slam home.
2. You still haven't cleaned the factory gunk out of the upper receiver and chamber, and lubed it all properly, and the BCG is sticking when it tries to slam home.
3. Your extractor is too stiff, so you need to remove it and see if there's an o-ring around the extractor spring. If you don't know what this means, you should look it up and read about it.
4. You have some gunk under the extractor claw that needs to be cleaned out.

But if I'm misinterpreting your post, disregard the above.

ETA: it could also be that your gas tube is not aligned correctly, so the BCG can't slip over the tube like it's supposed to. Take the bolt out of the BCG, put the BCG into the upper, and slide it gently forward. Does it slip over the gas tube easily? If not you need to realign the gas tube.

 

[bigblue]

Not for nothing but if you don't know how it works and at least some of the terminology, perhaps you shouldn't be building your own upper?

The extractor is supposed to be tight. You shouldn't be able to move it with your fingers. It will be even tighter from the factory until broken in.

You need to use the charging handle like a sling shot and let it slam home NOT ride the baby carriage home.

There is the outside possibility that the head spacing is off. Very slim chance of that but it's possible since you built it yourself.

Take it to a gun smith and PAY to have him look at it, head space, and function check. It's worth it bc if your head space is off and that .308 fires out of battery you are going to really wish you had. Very possibly to lose a hand and see how effective your eye pro is.

I had a AR9mm fire out of battery with three case ruptures and that scared the crap out of us. .308 is a whole different world of hurt.

 

[scatter]

What happens when you use the forward assist? Isn't this what it is for?

No. The FA is for emergencies. A clean and properly configured rifle should never need the FA. This is a newly built gun that's not locking up correctly and the root cause needs to be fixed.

 

[mac1911]

Not for nothing but if you don't know how it works and at least some of the terminology, perhaps you shouldn't be building your own upper?

The extractor is supposed to be tight. You shouldn't be able to move it with your fingers. It will be even tighter from the factory until broken in.

You need to use the charging handle like a sling shot and let it slam home NOT ride the baby carriage home.

There is the outside possibility that the head spacing is off. Very slim chance of that but it's possible since you built it yourself.

Take it to a gun smith and PAY to have him look at it, head space, and function check. It's worth it bc if your head space is off and that .308 fires out of battery you are going to really wish you had. Very possibly to lose a hand and see how effective your eye pro is.

I had a AR9mm fire out of battery with three case ruptures and that scared the crap out of us. .308 is a whole different world of hurt.

I do agree learning a bit more would be helpful. Although he bought this upper.
OP start simple. If you can assemble a lower you can detail strip and clean the upper.
I completely understood your gibberish.
Clean it lightly lube with clp. Chamber and barrel should be dry no lube of any kind.
Go to range. Lock the bolt back insert mag with one round. Either smack the bolt catch to release it or pull charge handle all the way back and release it like a bow and arrow let your arm ride back wards when you release the charging handle. If the bolt fails to close. Send it back. Sucks but that's what I would do. Bringing it to a gunsmith or fixing it yourself adds the expense you tried to save by buying PSA to begin with.

 

[bigblue]

I do agree learning a bit more would be helpful. Although he bought this upper.
OP start simple. If you can assemble a lower you can detail strip and clean the upper.
I completely understood your gibberish.
Clean it lightly lube with clp. Chamber and barrel should be dry no lube of any kind.
Go to range. Lock the bolt back insert mag with one round. Either smack the bolt catch to release it or pull charge handle all the way back and release it like a bow and arrow let your arm ride back wards when you release the charging handle. If the bolt fails to close. Send it back. Sucks but that's what I would do. Bringing it to a gunsmith or fixing it yourself adds the expense you tried to save by buying PSA to begin with.

Fair enough. If it's a complete upper they should have head spaced it. Make them fix it.

-1 for PSA. I'm still not a fan.

 

[jerryhipp]

i didn't build the upper. i did bring it to a friend who agreed that the extractor spring is to stiff. he recommended either ordering a new extractor spring assembly, or calling psa and try to get them to send me one, or ship it back to them. if i ship it back, they will probably want me to ship the entire upper at my expense im assuming. so its a lose lose situation for me. this blows. as for my terminology. thats just me. ive been working on cars trucks heavy machinery for 25yrs and i still can't properly name half the crap i fix. thats just me. sorry if i speak redneck. lol

p.s. thank you all for your insight, advice, and help.

 

[scatter]

So it's a PSA BCG that came with the upper?