Call for ban on 'bump stocks'

[endus]

common sense reciprocity?

Ooooooooo....I like that....

 

[Vagrant]

NRA is throwing the bump fire stocks under the bus to redirect attention away from the AR15. I wonder how binary triggers are going to be affected by all this.

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[crazymjb]

NRA is throwing the bump fire stocks under the bus to redirect attention away from the AR15. I wonder how binary triggers are going to be affected by all this.

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This is true. The gun-grabbers will feel like they got a victory... and we can throw it in their face the next time there is a tragedy and they come for whatever is next. Hopefully they can work in a trade, but I doubt it.

In MA, we'll get the boned, the question is how deep.

 

[drgrant]

Very tactical statement.

Seems like they want this to come from the ATF rather than going through congress. Probably the less shitty of two shitty options, if outright rejection is off the table.

I understand the why (forestall legislation by taking the issue off the table) but the means, and the way they are selling it bothers me.... IMHO they are ****ing turncoat mother****ers- they're allowing the antis to sell that LIE. And in the process they are selling that LIE to members that don't know any better. A public statement??? encouraging this bullshit?

Jesus christ. [sad2]

**** them and the horse they rode in on.

With friends like the NRA, who needs enemies? Now Acujett or whatever his name is will come in here to tell us we're all full of shit and we should lap the NRA's buttcheeks and thank them for what little we have.

-Mike

 

[rickinma]

I would laugh my ass off if the antis got tricked into throwing their weight behind an effort to reconfigure the NFA stuff in a R (nominally) controlled environment. Unlikely but still a delightful image.

I know - ridiculous to think something good could come from this, but if they think background checks are so useful, let's let some regular income folks buy full autos so they don't need to try to use devices like these. Reciprocity and suppressors for the law abiding seems like a pretty small give for the leftists to get shoestrings or bump stocks off the streets

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[drgrant]

This is true. The gun-grabbers will feel like they got a victory... and we can throw it in their face the next time there is a tragedy and they come for whatever is next. Hopefully they can work in a trade, but I doubt it.

This never works though at the federal level. When was the last time it worked? (FWIW FOPA 86 wasn't really a true gun owner brokered compromise, it was a matter of getting slipped a mickey and the NRA and others not giving a shit at the time.... )

Horse trading only works for gun owners if they end up with the better horse at the end. That rarely if ever happens, and when it does, its usually only at the state level. (EG, like when TX gun owners sucked for binding signage in exchange for getting lawful concealed
carry. )

-Mike

 

[Bfatz]

Which would you rather have - a ban on a pointless piece of plastic or another AWB?

Next up a Ban on Automatic Transmissions....Pointless to get all emotional.

 

[drgrant]

I would laugh my ass off if the antis got tricked into throwing their weight behind an effort to reconfigure the NFA stuff in a R (nominally) controlled environment. Unlikely but still a delightful image.

Never happen, too many (R) turncoat mother****er pieces of shit, and maybe a handful of FAKE blue dog democrat types, that don't really care about rights. They only care when its convenient for them or its going to buy them votes....

-Mike

 

[wahsben]

[FONT="]Baker said the state has some of the "best gun laws in the country," but added: "There's always room for improvement."

scumbag[/FONT]

It's also the most violent state in the north east.

 

[crazymjb]

This never works though at the federal level. When was the last time it worked? (FWIW FOPA 86 wasn't really a true gun owner brokered compromise, it was a matter of getting slipped a mickey and the NRA and others not giving a shit at the time.... )

Horse trading only works for gun owners if they end up with the better horse at the end. That rarely if ever happens, and when it does, its usually only at the state level. (EG, like when TX gun owners sucked for binding signage in exchange for getting lawful concealed
carry. )

-Mike

I know -- trying to remain optimistic. MA is ****ED.

Mike

 

[drgrant]

"Actually" that had more to do with a faulty vote. There is videofootage.

There is but the NRA dropped the ball too and simply didn't give a shit. They could have gone to Reagan and had him veto it with the poison pill attached, but they wanted the cheap "glory points" with their fudd base.

-Mike

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Which would you rather have - a ban on a pointless piece of plastic or another AWB?

So what happens when everyone wakes up the day after the ban goes into effect and they realize you don't need a bump stock to bump fire a rifle, or any semi auto firearm?

Skip 1:10.

 

[wahsben]

So does this mean no more pre ban 30 Round AR mags???? WUT so does this make us all criminals now?

If you're a gun owner especially one in Ma. the leftists already consider you a criminal.

 

[crazymjb]

^This is true. Look at all the bleating about how this is somehow our fault.

Mike

 

[drgrant]

I know -- trying to remain optimistic. MA is ****ED.

Mike

I'm honestly not that worried about MA, in relative terms. Healey's bullshit has mostly ****ed everything up anyways. Also anti gun legislation in MA these days is rarely written very well or in a way that it would pass, etc. An outright "ban with taking" is off the table, because they're not going to be willing to pay for stolen property. (takings issue). Mandated AW registration is possible though. (if that happens, all my guns are out of MA).

I can think of a few "cheap ways out antis could easily pass in MA" but I'm not going to post that shit in public, you already know what they are anyways, just use a little deductive reasoning. The antis in this state are so stupid they would need someone to write it out for them anyways...

-Mike

 

[headednorth]

Lower taxes?

...lower taxes.

MMArtist, what are.you.going to do.when.theyve worked.their.way down.the list and.are.banning something you.do care.about?

 

[DarthRevan]

Holy ****ing shit.
So when are we all going to swampscott to protest outside Bakers house? Not that it would even make a ****ing difference.
Ughhhhhhhhh, people wonder why we sound "extreme" when defending our guns, ITS BECAUSE I'LL NEVER GET ANYTHING BACK WHEN YOU TAKE MORE

 

[EMTDAD]

I read the NRA statement.. the impression that I got from reading is was that they wanted to ATF to look at them as NFA items, not ban them completely.

Correct me if I'm wrong.... currently for NFA items, you need special licensing, etc. Also, if you were to convert a semi to fully auto by replacing or modifying the internals, you would need the special license, etc. (this is where i'm completely ignorant)

Should it be any different for external conversions to an NFA regulated item? By using a special stock, are you circumventing the NFA process?

I'm really trying to understand this before I form an opinion...

 

[wahsben]

I read the NRA statement.. the impression that I got from reading is was that they wanted to ATF to look at them as NFA items, not ban them completely.

Correct me if I'm wrong.... currently for NFA items, you need special licensing, etc. Also, if you were to convert a semi to fully auto by replacing or modifying the internals, you would need the special license, etc. (this is where i'm completely ignorant)

Should it be any different for external conversions to an NFA regulated item? By using a special stock, are you circumventing the NFA process?

I'm really trying to understand this before I form an opinion...

History has shown us that government deciding what's best for the people usually isn't.

 

[endus]

I understand the why (forestall legislation by taking the issue off the table) but the means, and the way they are selling it bothers me.... IMHO they are ****ing turncoat mother****ers- they're allowing the antis to sell that LIE. And in the process they are selling that LIE to members that don't know any better. A public statement??? encouraging this bullshit?

Jesus christ. [sad2]

**** them and the horse they rode in on.

With friends like the NRA, who needs enemies? Now Acujett or whatever his name is will come in here to tell us we're all full of shit and we should lap the NRA's buttcheeks and thank them for what little we have.

-Mike

I have to admit I'm a little surprised at how hard people are going at the NRA on this specific point. Ed made a great point that shoddy wording and potential scope creep are a problem with any ban on bump stocks, but I would worry a bit less about that if this stayed with the ATF and didn't go to congress. Once congress gets involved all bets are off.

Don't get me wrong, I am already massively pissed at the NRA because I am forced to be a member for my range and, meanwhile, they could mostly give a shit less what happens to us in this state. I would much rather give more money to GOAL or Comm2A.

EDIT: Actually the specific wording, "allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles" does piss me off. I'm with you there.

 

[LoginName]

I read the NRA statement.. the impression that I got from reading is was that they wanted to ATF to look at them as NFA items, not ban them completely.

Correct me if I'm wrong.... currently for NFA items, you need special licensing, etc. Also, if you were to convert a semi to fully auto by replacing or modifying the internals, you would need the special license, etc. (this is where i'm completely ignorant)

Should it be any different for external conversions to an NFA regulated item? By using a special stock, are you circumventing the NFA process?

I'm really trying to understand this before I form an opinion...

By classifying bump fire stocks (and presumably binary triggers), the same way that they determined that DIAS, Lightning Links and
full-auto sears are machine guns.

Just grandfather them in, waive the $200.00 tax, and register them.

The only thing I'm not certain of if it would require reopening the NFA registry to allow post 1986 "machine guns" or not.

 

[not new guy]

How do they grandfather them though? Are they serialized? Do they just demand that no more get manufactured as of some cutoff date?

 

[peterthefish]

That's cheap! This one went for $1,250.

Good God. I thought I missed the boat buying a few for $100 and flipping them for $200.

 

[LoginName]

How do they grandfather them though? Are they serialized? Do they just demand that no more get manufactured as of some cutoff date?

I'm speculating at this point that this is what the NRA has in mind with regards to making bumpfire stocks an NFA item.

There is precedent for it...

THE �PRE-81� DROP-IN AUTO SEAR

The �pre-81� DIAS - commonly advertised in Shotgun News for about $125-$200 are a completely different item than a registered DIAS. Prior to 1981 it was legal to make and own these sears without necessarily registering them as machineguns. BATF eventually caught on, and in 1981 issued a ruling that the sears were considered machinegun conversion parts and sears made after 1981 had to be registered (tax paid) and transfer as any other NFA item (these became the registered ones referred to above). BATF grandfathered the unregistered sears made prior to 1981, but sears made after 1981 had to either be registered or are considered unregistered machineguns - a serious felony. IT IS A FELONY TO POSSESS BOTH A PRE-81 DROP-IN AUTO SEAR AND AN AR15 - UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN AN INDIVIDUAL LEGALLY USE A PRE-81 DIAS IN AN AR15. Technically, you are allowed to possess an unregistered DIAS which was made prior to 1981, but you cannot possess one if you own an AR15 - it�s one or the other, but not both. Obviously, this rule makes possession of a pre-81 DIAS useless - if you cannot own the rifle it goes in, about all you can do with them is to make cufflinks, earrings, or a very small paperweight.

The so called �pre-81� DIAS presents another legal problem, which can make the mere possession of the sear a felony - even in the complete absence or an AR15. As stated previously, only sears made prior to 1981 are allowed to be unregistered - any sears made after the 1981 ruling must be registered or will be considered by BATF to be unregistered machineguns. Because none of the pre-81 sears carry a serial number which can be definitively linked to a date of manufacture, there is no way to prove to BATF or a prosecutor that an unregistered pre-81 DIAS was actually made prior to 1981. If you are caught with one (just a sear, not even with a rifle) BATF can assume it was made after 1981, and therefore prosecute for felony possession of an unregistered machinegun. The burden of proof will fall on the owner of the sear to prove it was made prior to 1981 - very difficult to do without a serial number of date of manufacture on the sear itself. Granted, some pre-81 sears come with a letter purported to document the sears authenticity, but often these are just Xeroxed, and will not stand up to the scrutiny of a prosecutor.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070610023214/http://www.quarterbore.com:80/nfa/dias.html

 

[NHKevin]

NRA just said that bump stocks should require additional regulation.

Give them the additional regulation - maybe a tax stamp.

In return we get National Reciprocity.

AP "BREAKING: NRA calls on federal government to review whether bump stocks comply with law, should be subject to further regulation."

NRA goes full retard.......

NRA is the reason the MG registry was closed in '86

Pretty good reason to cancel your NRA membership.

 

[not new guy]

I'm speculating at this point that this is what the NRA has in mind with regards to making bumpfire stocks an NFA item.

There is precedent for it...



http://web.archive.org/web/20070610023214/http://www.quarterbore.com:80/nfa/dias.html

Interesting. I wonder if ATF had formally blessed the DIAS years before ruling against it though. Lots of bump fire stocks were manufactured and purchased by lots of people in reliance on ATF's prior ruling, which is only being called into question in the wake of this shooting. Doing a 180 and declaring them illegal to possess (or combine with a rifle) is a very tough position to take. It will be interesting to see how they now justify their change of position, if they do in fact change.

 

[arcticzr600]

Good God. I thought I missed the boat buying a few for $100 and flipping them for $200.

On Tuesday I picked one up at cabelas, looked at it and put it down because i decided it was stupid. Guess I should bought it for $170!


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[bluedog-46]

Seeing our Chicago thread on violence just in that ONE CITY. It would seem a ban on those on the dole procreating is more in order than a ban on bump fire stocks. I realize one guy killed 59 or 60 people, but Chicago has the same bodycount in a couple weeks. Again just one city.

I think there was a region of the country ( Dixie) trying to give warning of this stuff. Got to bang head against wall. Blame the guns and not thugs.

 

[namedpipes]

So does this mean no more pre ban 30 Round AR mags???? WUT so does this make us all criminals now?

No. A ban on standard magazines is clearly unconstitutional.

 

[MMArtist]

Lower taxes?

Yeah.... federally a lot of things are on the plate. If I could trade bump fire stocks to a Dem for a vote on lower taxes or the like I would.

Bump stocks are stupid as hell.. who the **** cares.