California man killed a trophy deer on his rural property. Now he’s facing a huge penalty.

[whacko]

Like the seals on the cape?

Not sure what your referencing.

 

[Spicolii]

Not sure what your referencing.

I guess I was just trying to illustrate that govt can't manage anything. Maybe I responded to the wrong post to do that though.

 

[Spicolii]

Two things can be true at once

Do the regulations preserve wildlife resources? Its likely possible though I think govt screws up just about everything up and this is no exception.

In asking for govts permission to feed yourself result in a loss of rights, increased dependency on govt as well as increased surveillance and enforcement and criminalizes otherwise law abiding citizens . Yes

Which is worse? "I don't know.

 

[whacko]

I guess I was just trying to illustrate that govt can't manage anything. Maybe I responded to the wrong post to do that though.

Some wildlife management plans are successful by the government some are not.

Take wild turkeys for an example. 50 years ago wild turkeys were gone in most of new England and you could not hunt them. Management plans and re introductions have brought them back and they are huntable in Mass spring and fall seasons......and in fact the hunting bag limits are probably going to increase next year. Success.

Grouse hunting in Mass ......don't get me started that's been an epic failure.

But.....overall......hunters and sportsmen that stood up and said "yes tax us......and regulate us"....by and large has created huntable game for ALL citizens Nationwide that just would not exist if there were no regulations.

 

[whacko]

Two things can be true at once

Do the regulations preserve wildlife resources? Its likely possible though I think govt screws up just about everything up and this is no exception.

In asking for govts permission to feed yourself result in a loss of rights, increased dependency on govt as well as increased surveillance and enforcement and criminalizes otherwise law abiding citizens . Yes

Which is worse? "I don't know.

If the regulations didn't start in the first half if the 1900s......there wouldn't be any game animals to hunt. The populations on game animals was that bad. As for myself......I like having huntable populations of game.....and I hunt ALOT. The VAST majority of hunters do play by the rules......because we understand that the rules are there to ensure sustainable game populations for all to utilize.

 

[01906]

Not sure what your referencing.

Nah, there should be a daily limit on seals. I won't deny they don't get everything right.

There are a lot of animals that are protected that shouldn't be. But as far as big game is concerned. If we didn't have the regulations in place that we do. There would be nothing left.
There are also a lot of fish. That if we keep harvesting the way we do in 20 years there will be nothing left.

 

[whacko]

Nah, there should be a daily limit on seals. I won't deny they don't get everything right.

There are a lot of animals that are protected that shouldn't be. But as far as big game is concerned. If we didn't have the regulations in place that we do. There would be nothing left.
There are also a lot of fish. That if we keep harvesting the way we do in 20 years there will be nothing left.

Atlantic cod is a fine example of fish species that are being harvested to the brink. Canada has had a moratorium on cod fishing since the 1990s. New England is almost to that point.

The gov doesn't always get it 100% right. But for the most part.....hunting regs give everyone a fair chance at a future of hunting.

 

[Fixxah]

I wonder if the rack was silicone?

 

[Spicolii]

Nah, there should be a daily limit on seals. I won't deny they don't get everything right.

There are a lot of animals that are protected that shouldn't be. But as far as big game is concerned. If we didn't have the regulations in place that we do. There would be nothing left.
There are also a lot of fish. That if we keep harvesting the way we do in 20 years there will be nothing left.

Maybe. But the majority of overfishing comes from commercial vessels which could and should be regulated differently as people are profiting from it. The majority of mass kill offs and near extinctions have been monetarily driven. For example the buffalo herds on the Great Plains NOT from people hunting to feed themselves.

The fact they can board my boat. Search me. Search my boat. Temporarily confiscate any firearms. Check the serial numbers. Detain me for as long as they want all to save a F%%king fish is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[Darksideblues42]

Iffy on this. If everyone just shot deer on their property out of season, the herd would be decimated. Can't imagine the deer population in NH/ME/MA doing well if everyone could just bag a deer any time of year. I have no idea what the NorCal deer herd is like though. Most hunters I know support management efforts.

The way the warden went about nailing this guy seems like BS though. And 20K fine is full retard.

I would think that if everyone was shooting deer out of season, the herd would be reduced quite a bit more than 10%.

There seems to have been aggravating circumstances which were used to justify the large fine.

 

[whacko]

I would think that if everyone was shooting deer out of season, the herd would be reduced quite a bit more than 10%.

There seems to have been aggravating circumstances which were used to justify the large fine.

The circumstances they are using against him is a recent law that Has higher fines for taking what the state considers a "trophy animal" by illegal means.

 

[NHKevin]

I agree there should be a seal hunt. However, I tried a seal meat dish last time I was in Montreal. Can't say I enjoyed it. That was the only time I tried it, so I would give it another chance, but I'm not rushing to.

 

[Darksideblues42]

The circumstances they are using against him is a recent law that Has higher fines for taking what the state considers a "trophy animal" by illegal means.

The aggravated circumstances include baiting as well, so that is a consideration.

 

[whacko]

Maybe. But the majority of overfishing comes from commercial vessels which could and should be regulated differently as people are profiting from it. The majority of mass kill offs and near extinctions have been monetarily driven. For example the buffalo herds on the Great Plains NOT from people hunting to feed themselves.

The fact they can board my boat. Search me. Search my boat. Temporarily confiscate any firearms. Check the serial numbers. Detain me for as long as they want all to save a F%%king fish is absolutely ludicrous.

True that the problem in overfishing lies with the commercial entities especially for cod and herring stocks. The United States can only set limits and regulations on commercial harvest of fish inside the economic exclusion zone which extends only 200 nautical miles out to sea per international law. The problem with the management of cod stocks is that the range that cod exist ...and migrate through.....extends well beyond the 200 nautical miles. The countries that are mostly responsible for cod depletion are Portugal and Spain. They fish the shit out of cod just outside the 200 nautical mile exclusion zone and there's nothing the us government can do about it. Herring show the same symptoms due to eez limits. Years ago the us put a moratorium on fishing for herring and using them for libe bait. The problem here is that the us government ends up punishing the recreational angler for problems that are not created by the recreational folks.

 

[whacko]

The aggravated circumstances include baiting as well, so that is a consideration.

If baiting is not allowed per the management plan....absolutely.

 

[BigTimber]

let a man do what a man is going to do on his own land.

Yeah that’s worked out so well in the past, never. Simply put your view leads to everything killed in a hurry. Always has always will. That’s why we have bag limits and seasons. We can agree to disagree but you’d be wrong. Guys a dirtbag, he knew exactly what he was doing and should pay a high price.

 

[BigTimber]

Im having trouble getting upset by this... The only thing that doesn't make sense is taking his gun that he shot the deer with.

Also, your positions on abortion are irrelevant to this thread.

It’s a standard practice in many states. The state will seize everything that helped facilitate the illegal activity. Like seizing a drug traffickers car.

 

[BigTimber]

Is a four-point buck considered a "trophy animal"? I'm being serious, I've never hunted deer and don't know what's expected.

I mean, hell, I've seen a four-point buck in my backyard in the 'burbs. Looked like a nice amount of meat on the hoof, but the antlers didn't seem that impressive.

It’s a 4x4 in western lingo. What matters here is the width and height of the rack. The deer he killed is a monster. Points don’t matter, it’s spread. Looks to be a 30” deer easy. Look at the pic at the end of the story in the sled. That a big one.

 

[BigTimber]

I think out west, 4 points on each side is a 4-pointer, at least with mule deer.

No 4-pointer is a trophy.

Nope.

 

[FisherTech]

I guess I was just trying to illustrate that govt can't manage anything. Maybe I responded to the wrong post to do that though.

What you are referring to, is covered under the Marine Mammal Act that is the responsibility of National Marine Fisheries Service who are under NOAA. There is a provision in the Marine Mammal Act to allow the culling of those animals, but none of those in charge have the balls to set up and execute the plan. NOAA does not get money from P-R funds. Also folks the commercial and salt water sport fisheries all come under NMFS/NOAA.

 

[friscoeast]

Environmental Police take their jobs too serious

 

[whacko]

Environmental Police take their jobs too serious

I know quite a few of em personally. Most a great people.....a scant few can be dicks.

Their job is to enforce the regulations that support the management plans so that all hunters have huntable populations of game into the future. To some ......that don't think a management plan is necessary and game should be open and unlimited to abuse I guess the conclusion that all of them take their job too seriously could be the norm.

 

[BigTimber]

Environmental Police take their jobs too serious
After 30 years of hunting coast to coast I can say that has not been my experience.

 

[BigTimber]

I think out west, 4 points on each side is a 4-pointer, at least with mule deer.

No 4-pointer is a trophy.

Here’s a “4 pointer” my Cousin shot a few years ago. Would you pass on that? That’s the deer of a lifetime for the majority of hunters. For those of you not familiar with mule deer his ears are about twice the size of a Whitetail, to give you a reference to how wide this deer really is.

 

[Spicolii]

True that the problem in overfishing lies with the commercial entities especially for cod and herring stocks. The United States can only set limits and regulations on commercial harvest of fish inside the economic exclusion zone which extends only 200 nautical miles out to sea per international law. The problem with the management of cod stocks is that the range that cod exist ...and migrate through.....extends well beyond the 200 nautical miles. The countries that are mostly responsible for cod depletion are Portugal and Spain. They fish the shit out of cod just outside the 200 nautical mile exclusion zone and there's nothing the us government can do about it. Herring show the same symptoms due to eez limits. Years ago the us put a moratorium on fishing for herring and using them for libe bait. The problem here is that the us government ends up punishing the recreational angler for problems that are not created by the recreational folks.

So if we can agree that its the commercial side causing the problems, couldn't it be possible that the same principle would apply to hunting?

 

[Dennis in MA]

The way the warden went about nailing this guy seems like BS though. And 20K fine is full retard.

Driving by and seeing the bait station in a state where baiting is illegal??? I guess the first-best thing would have been to take a baseball bat to the bait station. But that would have caused the dirtbag-hunter to hide it next time.

I can already sense the posts coming saying "his private property he can shoot what he wants".

For those of you in that camp.....this is how it works......you can own the land......but you don't own the animals and birds that walk on it or fly over it......the wildlife belongs to the public trust.

NH for example......the state extends your right to hunt om your property without purchasing a license......but you still need to obey season and bag limits because the game animals belong to to everyone and the management plans therefore apply to everyone.

It's a concept I agree with.

As does America. In all it's glory.

The animals are not his. Period.

You can own the land....but you don't own the animals and birds that walk on it or fly over it. That's how it works.

In NH you can hunt your property without buying a license ...but you must obey season and bag limits.....becuase the wildlife belongs to the public.....and is managed for all to utilize.

Some folks forget where we came from. Where the king and the lords owned the land so they owned the animals. Free means the animals belong to ALL of us, regardless of who owns the land.

I'm dumbfounded that someone got to "that's not free" over this. Clearly not looking at the historical perspective.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Here’s a “4 pointer” my Cousin shot a few years ago. Would you pass on that? That’s the deer of a lifetime for the majority of hunters. For those of you not familiar with mule deer his ears are about twice the size of a Whitetail, to give you a reference to how wide this deer really is.View attachment 330021

His antlers look like they're flashing a gang sign. West Coast, yo!

 

[whacko]

So if we can agree that its the commercial side causing the problems, couldn't it be possible that the same principle would apply to hunting?

Commercial hunting of game is illegal. Has been for like 70 years. You cannot sell wild harvested game meat.....that was also put in place to bring game animal populations back from the brink of disaster.

Fur bearers are a different system. You can sell fur that is wild harvested but the regulations are strict.


So.....no.

 

[Spicolii]

Commercial hunting of game is illegal. Has been for like 70 years. You cannot sell wild harvested game meat.....that was also put in place to bring game animal populations back from the brink of disaster.

Fur bearers are a different system. You can sell fur that is wild harvested but the regulations are strict.


So.....no.

Correct. And ever since then population decline hasn't been much of a problem has it? You can argue that the controls on recreation hunters helped and I would probably agree in order to get things back in balance. But from what I understand Deer populations are doing just fine. It may be time to re examine century old laws.

 

[whacko]

Correct. And ever since then population decline hasn't been much of a problem has it? You can argue that the controls on recreation hunters helped and I would probably agree in order to get things back in balance. But from what I understand Deer populations are doing just fine. It may be time to re examine century old laws.

They are doing fine in mass yes

By re examining century old laws are you advocating letting folks take deer whenever and how many they want? If that happens the populations will be depleted again in about 10 to 20 years.