CA makes MA look like TX....50rnd per month limit

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Anyone see this yet? I didn't see it on a search under the bill code. If this passes, will limit people to 50 rnds per month in CA! Makes MA (where I live...) look like TX! :doh:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_cfa_20090601_202837_asm_floor.html

SUMMARY : Requires, commencing July 1, 2010, that any person
that sells or transfers more than 50 rounds of handgun
ammunition in any month to register as a handgun ammunition
vendor. Specifically, this bill :

1)Provides that commencing July 1, 2010, no person shall sell or
transfer ownership of more than 50 rounds of handgun
ammunition in any month unless the person is licensed by the
Department of Justice (DOJ) as a licensed handgun ammunition
vendor, as specified.

2)Exempts the sale and transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition by manufacturers or wholesalers to licensed
vendors.

3)Exempts sales or transfers of ownership of handgun ammunition
made by an authorized law enforcement representative of a
federal, state or local agency to a peace officer authorized
to carry a handgun in the course and scope of his or her
duties.

4)Exempts the sale or transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition to representatives of a federal, state, or local
agency, if written authorization by the head of the agency
authorizing the transaction, is presented to the vendor of
handgun ammunition.

5)Exempts the sale or transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition state and local entities in which the entity is
acquiring the ammunition as part of an authorized program in
which the entity is buying or receiving ammunition from
private individuals.

6)Exempts the sale or transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition between immediate family members, spouses, or
registered domestic partners.

7)Provides that a violation of provisions relating to the sale
and transfer of handgun ammunition is a misdemeanor.

8)Authorizes the DOJ to issue handgun ammunition vendor
licenses.

9)Provides that no ammunition handgun vendor license may be
issued to an applicant who fails to provide a copy of any
required local business license, a seller's permit, a federal
firearms license if the person is federally licensed, and a
certificate of eligibility (COE). The handgun ammunition
vendor's license shall be issued for a specific physical
location where the sale or transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition is to be conducted.

10)Requires the DOJ to inform applicants who are denied licenses
of the reason for the denial in writing.

11)Requires the handgun ammunition vendor license to be issued
in a form prescribed by the Attorney General (AG) and shall be
valid for a period of one year, and authorizes the AG to adopt
regulations to administer application procedures and
procedures for licensees

12)Allows the DOJ to charge handgun ammunition vendors license
applicants a fee sufficient for the costs or reimbursing the
DOJ for the cost of administering the handgun license program,
maintaining the registry of handgun ammunition vendors, and
necessary regulatory functions, including enforcement,
provided that the fee shall not exceed $50.

13)Requires the DOJ to issue licenses for the following
applicants:

a) State-licensed firearms dealers;

b) Federally licensed firearms dealers;

c) A target facility which holds a business or regulatory
license;

d) Gunsmiths;

e) Wholesalers; and,

f) Manufacturers or importers of firearms, as specified.

14)Requires the DOJ to keep a centralized registry of all
persons, businesses, and corporations who are vendors, and
provides that no vendor shall transfer ownership of handgun
ammunition pursuant to their licenses unless the vendor is on
the centralized registry.

15)Allows the DOJ to remove any vendor from the registry who
violates any provisions relating to the transfer and sale of
handgun ammunition.

16)Provides that the license of any vendor that violates
provisions relating to the sale or transfer of ammunition
three times shall be permanently revoked, and notice of the
revocation shall be provided to local law enforcement and
licensing authorities in the jurisdiction where the vendor's
business is located.

17)States that information contained in the centralized registry
of handgun ammunition vendors shall be made available for law
enforcement purposes, or when the information is requested for
the purpose of determining the validity of handgun ammunition
deliveries or transfers

18)Provides that a handgun ammunition vendor shall comply with
all of the following conditions, requirements and
prohibitions:

a) A vendor shall not permit an employee who is prohibited
from possessing a firearm, or has been assessed as a danger
to his or her self or others, to handle, sell, or deliver
ammunition in the scope of his or her employment;

b) Requires an employee of a vendor, who becomes an
employee after July 1, 2010, and who handles, sell or
transfers handgun ammunition, to provide to the vendor a
certificate of eligibility obtained from the DOJ and the
request must be made within 45 days of employing the
individual; and,

c) Requires an employee of a vendor who becomes an employee
on or before July 1, 2010 and who handles, sells, or
delivers handgun ammunition to provide to the vendor a COE
obtained from the DOJ no later than August 15, 2010.

17)Commencing July 1, 2010, a vendor of handgun ammunition shall
not sell or transfer ownership of any handgun ammunition in a
manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible to a
purchaser without the assistance of the vendor or employee
thereof.

18)Provides that commencing July 1, 2010, a vendor of handgun
ammunition shall not sell or transfer handgun ammunition
without at the time of purchase legibly recording the
following information on a form prescribed by the DOJ:

a) The date of the transaction;

b) The transferee's driver's license or other
identification number and the state in which it was issued;

c) The brand, type, and amount of ammunition transferred;

d) The purchaser or transferee's signature;

e) The name of the salesperson who processed the sale or
transaction;

f) The right thumbprint of the purchaser or transferee on
the prescribed form;

g) The purchaser's or transferee's full residential address
and telephone number; and,

h) The purchaser's or transferee's date of birth.

19)Commencing July 1, 2010, the records of the sale or transfer
of handgun ammunition shall be maintained on the premises of
the vendor for at least five years from the date of the
recorded transfer.

20)Commencing July 1, 2010, the handgun ammunition vendor's
records of sale shall be subject to inspection by specified
peace officers engaged in an investigation where the records
may be relevant, is seeking information about prohibited
persons, or is engaged in ensuring compliance with laws
relating to firearms or ammunition.

21)Commencing July 1, 2010, a handgun ammunition vendor shall
not knowingly make a false entry in, fail to make a required
entry in, fail to obtain the required thumbprint, or otherwise
fail to maintain the records of handgun ammunition transfers
or sales.

22)Commencing July 1, 2010, no vendor shall refuse to permit
specified peace officers to examine any record related to the
transfer or sale of handgun ammunition, or refuse to permit
the use of these record by those persons.

23)Exempts from providing specified information at the time of
purchase or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition by
licensed handgun ammunition vendors to any of the following
who are properly identified in a manner prescribed by the DOJ:

a) A licensed firearms dealers;

b) A licensed handgun ammunition vendor;

c) A federally licensed firearms dealer;

d) A target facility which holds a business or regulatory
license;

e) Gunsmiths;

f) Wholesalers;

g) Manufacturers or importers of firearms, as specified;

h) Sales or transfers of ownership of handgun ammunition
made to authorized law enforcement representatives if
written authorization from the employing the agency is
presented to the person from whom the purchase is being
made; and,

i) Sales or transfers of ownership of handgun ammunition by
licensed handgun ammunition vendors to sworn peace
officers, as specified.

24)Provides that specified violations relating to the
maintenance of records of handgun ammunition transfers or
sales shall be punished as a misdemeanor.

25)Makes it a misdemeanor for any person who is subject to an
injunction for being a member of a criminal street gang to
own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any
ammunition or reloaded ammunition.

26)Provides that a sale of any ammunition by a person,
corporation or firm to a person prohibited from owning or
possessing ammunition, or to a person he or she reasonably
should know is a prohibited person, is punishable by up to one
year in the county jail, by a fine not to exceed $1,000, or
both.

27)Provides that commencing July 1, 2010, the sale or transfer
of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face
transaction with the seller or transferor being provided with
bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser, and a
violation of this provision is a misdemeanor.

28)Defines "bona fide evidence of identity" as a document issued
by a federal, state, county, or municipal government, or
agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a motor vehicle
operator's license, California state identification card,
identification card issued to a member of the armed forces, or
other form of identification that bears the name, date of
birth, description, and picture of the person.

29)Defines "handgun ammunition" as ammunition principally for
concealed upon the person, as defined, notwithstanding that
the ammunition may also be used in some rifles, but excluding
ammunition intended to be used in antique firearms. Handgun
ammunition does not include blanks used in prop weapons.

30)Provides that the face-to-face requirement shall not apply to
the delivery of ammunition to law enforcement agencies, sworn
peace officers, importers and manufacturers of firearms,
licensed ammunition vendors, licensed firearms dealers or
collectors, and consultant evaluators as specified.

FISCAL EFFECT : According to the Assembly Appropriations
Committee, DOJ projects start-up costs of about $700,000, with
ongoing costs of $60,000 for seven positions. DOJ indicates
these costs would eventually be covered by the $50 fee and
employer payments to DOJ for the cost of the COEs.

COMMENTS : According to the author, "AB 962 the Protection Act of
2009 seeks to safeguard California's communities by combating
the easy accessibility to handgun ammunition that fuels gun
violence and criminal activity."
 
It's hard for me to undertand, but isn't it saying that you only need that license if you SELL 5o rounds or more a month? Granted, that still sucks, but it says if you sell or transfer, not if you buy...
?
 
It's hard for me to undertand, but isn't it saying that you only need that license if you SELL 5o rounds or more a month?

That's part of it, and Mass already has a similar provision in M.G.L. c.140 s.122B, however, the part that would concern me is...

18)Provides that commencing July 1, 2010, a vendor of handgun
ammunition shall not sell or transfer handgun ammunition
without at the time of purchase legibly recording the
following information on a form prescribed by the DOJ:

a) The date of the transaction;

b) The transferee's driver's license or other
identification number and the state in which it was issued;

c) The brand, type, and amount of ammunition transferred;

d) The purchaser or transferee's signature;

e) The name of the salesperson who processed the sale or
transaction;

f) The right thumbprint of the purchaser or transferee on
the prescribed form;

g) The purchaser's or transferee's full residential address
and telephone number; and,

h) The purchaser's or transferee's date of birth.
 
poster.jpg
 
It's hard for me to undertand, but isn't it saying that you only need that license if you SELL 5o rounds or more a month? Granted, that still sucks, but it says if you sell or transfer, not if you buy...
?

If a dealer can't sell it, how can gun owners buy it? Does this not effect buyers as well as sellers? Seems like it will.
 
All part of the California Stimulus Plan. Gun owners will single handedly pull CA out of a tailspin with record ammo sales over the next 9 1/2 months.
 
I didn't read a restriction on the actual dealer once they have the license. However, let's say I want to get rid of some ammo for a gun I don't own anymore, you could get in trouble for selling your excess 9mm to a buddy (at least how I read it.)

Baby steps to hell.
 
"no person shall sell or transfer ownership of more than 50 rounds of handgun ammunition in any month"

soooo if they go to the range and shoot more then 50 rounds, did they not just transfer more then 50 round of ammunition to the owner of the range? cant wait for that one to end up in front of a judge...
 
Anyone see this yet? I didn't see it on a search under the bill code. If this passes, will limit people to 50 rnds per month in CA! Makes MA (where I live...) look like TX! :doh:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_cfa_20090601_202837_asm_floor.html


18)Provides that commencing July 1, 2010, a vendor of handgun
ammunition shall not sell or transfer handgun ammunition
without at the time of purchase legibly recording the
following information on a form prescribed by the DOJ:

a) The date of the transaction;

b) The transferee's driver's license or other
identification number and the state in which it was issued;

c) The brand, type, and amount of ammunition transferred;

d) The purchaser or transferee's signature;

e) The name of the salesperson who processed the sale or
transaction;

f) The right thumbprint of the purchaser or transferee on
the prescribed form;

g) The purchaser's or transferee's full residential address
and telephone number; and,

h) The purchaser's or transferee's date of birth.

."


Some dealers (at least one I know of) does something that has the same effect as he records your LTC/FID # when he sells you ammo. Needless to say I do not buy my ammo there anymore.
 
Okay, so how does this...

25)Makes it a misdemeanor for any person who is subject to an
injunction for being a member of a criminal street gang to
own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any
ammunition or reloaded ammunition.

Jive with this?...

COMMENTS : According to the author, "AB 962 the Protection Act of
2009 seeks to safeguard California's communities by combating
the easy accessibility to handgun ammunition that fuels gun
violence and criminal activity."
 
"no person shall sell or transfer ownership of more than 50 rounds of handgun ammunition in any month"

soooo if they go to the range and shoot more then 50 rounds, did they not just transfer more then 50 round of ammunition to the owner of the range? cant wait for that one to end up in front of a judge...

That's an interesting interpretation, but unless California considers individual components "ammunition" (like MA does), wouldn't you only be transferring the individual components (i.e. the bullets into the backstop, the burnt powder into the air, and the casings/primers on the floor)?

Some dealers (at least one I know of) does something that has the same effect as he records your LTC/FID # when he sells you ammo. Needless to say I do not buy my ammo there anymore.

Yeah, that's what really bothers me about this.
 
Do politicians really stay up at night just thinking of ways to destroy the Constitution? Do they not think at some point the people are not going to take this anymore?...I would Hope that everyone would just ignore it..even the police..kinda like the "you can't talk on a cellphone" law here in CT..How the hell would they enforce this or know where/how you got ammo?
 
It's hard for me to undertand, but isn't it saying that you only need that license if you SELL 5o rounds or more a month? Granted, that still sucks, but it says if you sell or transfer, not if you buy...
?

The whole thing is an exercise in stupidity, but the real damage is with the word "transfer." If you go to the range with a friend and give that friend 51 rounds of rimfire ammo you've now violated that law. You've transferred more than the amount allowed, unless you hold a license to do so. So 50 rounds is okay, but to go beyond that you have to whip out the form, get a fingerprint, get ID, etc. [rolleyes]

I can remember years ago buying bricks of .22's at Kmart and they recorded all the ammo sales in a spiral notebook. If anyone can explain to me how laws like this decrease crime or increase safety, I'm all ears.

All I hear are crickets......
 
Do politicians really stay up at night just thinking of ways to destroy the Constitution? Do they not think at some point the people are not going to take this anymore?...I would Hope that everyone would just ignore it..even the police..kinda like the "you can't talk on a cellphone" law here in CT..How the hell would they enforce this or know where/how you got ammo?

Yes they do.

See, if our elected "officials" do not embellish existing problems or even make up contrived issues, then they're out of a job.

Global warming, terrorism, gun rights, health care, are all issues that are used to scare the sheep into clamoring for more and more government intervention.

Back to issue, they've set their targets on law-abiding, peaceable gun owners because criminals (of course) don't follow the law. How else can pols be perceived as "fixing the gun problem"? Furthermore, I have serious doubts about it's enforceability without some sort of ammunition serial numbering schema in place to back it up. This type of nonsense is found in the magazine capacity legislation: I can lawfully purchase a 10-round magazine, but I can't get the 12-round "Free State" equivalent? Is there something about those two extra rounds that warrants government force?
 
I suspect that other than hassling legal gun owners to the maximum extent possible (for kicks), they believe that making buyers 'register' their purchases will dissuade criminals from buying ammo.

Perhaps criminals will take up reloading. THEN, they'll need new laws to crack down on reloading.



Just think of the positives...this has to mean lots of new government jobs, consistent with Obama's 'make-all-jobs-government-or-union jobs' program.
.
 
Anyone see this yet? I didn't see it on a search under the bill code. If this passes, will limit people to 50 rnds per month in CA! Makes MA (where I live...) look like TX! :doh:p

Read the whole thing. It does not limit you to 50 rounds per month. Although. it is going to require every purchase to be registered by a vendor.

Bill
 
Come on guys, lets try to help out our comrades from California! [grin]

Use the number below to call Arnie and voice your opposition using the automated system:

Number:
916-445-2841

For AB962:

Step 1: Call the number in the subject
Step 2: Press 1 for English.
Step 3: Press 2 for commenting on a bill on the Governor’s desk
Step 4: Press 2 for AB962
Step 5: Press 2 for Oppose
Step 6: Repeat as necessary.
 
I can remember years ago buying bricks of .22's at Kmart and they recorded all the ammo sales in a spiral notebook. If anyone can explain to me how laws like this decrease crime or increase safety, I'm all ears.

They don't.
And Mass (of all places) figured that out years ago and dropped the dealer requirement of logging ammo sales. It didn't do diddly to prevent crime back then and it won't work again now.
 
This type of nonsense is found in the magazine capacity legislation: I can lawfully purchase a 10-round magazine, but I can't get the 12-round "Free State" equivalent? Is there something about those two extra rounds that warrants government force?

Yes, by liberal thinking, it means 2 less people die before you reload. [rolleyes]
That type of thinking killed me with the incident with the Browns. One of the media outlets said "He was in possession of a handgun that could kill 17 people before being reloaded." I nearly spit soda all over my monitor when I read that.
 
They don't.
And Mass (of all places) figured that out years ago and dropped the dealer requirement of logging ammo sales. It didn't do diddly to prevent crime back then and it won't work again now.

I thought that was a fed thing- and the feds dropped it after FOPA 86.

-Mike
 
I guess I don't understand how this is going to effect (affect?) Instructors. If I need to teach a class, would I then have to hit several different dealers to get the ammo needed to teach the range part?

There doesn't appear to be any restriction on the PURCHASE of ammunition, just sales.

You can purchase all you'd like but anyone who is going transfer more than 50 rounds per month needs to be licensed to do so and also need to keep records of the transactions. It also stipulates that the DoJ MUST issue the needed license to any state or federally licensed firearms dealer, gunsmith, target facilities, wholesalers, and manufacturers/importers of firearms meaning that there won't be any issue getting ammunition from any of your standard sources (ignoring the extra paperwork).

This looks to exist merely to curb the transfer of ammunition between individuals and honestly does look to be like something just to have additional charges to tack on for weapons violations. The obvious downside for the public is that the government will know how much ammunition a given individual has (or at least a reasonable estimate). I doubt it will stop much of anything but, as I said, I'm sure they'll be throwing illegal transfer charges around -- hopefully at the right people.
 
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