Buying with valid ltc during renewal

Expired but in process of renewal is a different thing. Supposedly, you are supposed to be ok to buy even though it expired but if you had the slip to show that you have applied for renewal. But, many here have said that some stores would just care that you are expired and would not do the sale, despite that you have a pending renewal, maybe because they are ignorant of the law, or don't care.

They won't because MIRCS probably won't let them process it anyways. I think the problem is MIRCS has no flag in it for "pending renewal".

-Mike
 
I just went to get a new toy at 4seasons with my newly renewed LTC-A, for which I sent in the renewal application in February. I received it about 2 weeks ago. I was denied, because I didn't realize that it doesn't take effect until my birthday, May 17, and the old one was still good. So, I had to truck home and get the old one which worked fine, and I went home with my purchase (Beretta 92fs, Italian made, $519 cash!).
 
They won't because MIRCS probably won't let them process it anyways. I think the problem is MIRCS has no flag in it for "pending renewal".

-Mike

Correct. Then it is likely that the PD must trigger that flag and I wonder how many will do so. Unless FRB automates that process with the entry of info to them via MIRCS, I suspect many will be denied.


I just went to get a new toy at 4seasons with my newly renewed LTC-A, for which I sent in the renewal application in February. I received it about 2 weeks ago. I was denied, because I didn't realize that it doesn't take effect until my birthday, May 17, and the old one was still good. So, I had to truck home and get the old one which worked fine, and I went home with my purchase (Beretta 92fs, Italian made, $519 cash!).

Always pay attention to detail. Since a new LTC # and PIN is issued with each renewal (unlike your DL), it isn't valid until your b'day. I've seen this happen to others as well. When I receive a renewal, it goes in the safe until the day of my (or my Wife's) b'day just to avoid this problem.
 
Don't know why you are harping on "90 days". The law changed and it is now "infinite days".

Not a programmer and for all I know they may have the program written in Fortran! [laugh]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong?

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131
MGL Chapter 140 Section 131 said:
A license to carry or possess firearms shall be valid, unless revoked or suspended, for a period of not more than 6 years from the date of issue and shall expire on the anniversary of the licensee’s date of birth occurring not less than 5 years but not more than 6 years from the date of issue, except that if the licensee applied for renewal before the license expired, the license shall remain valid for a period of 90 days beyond the stated expiration date on the license....
 
Jason, the new law went into effect 1/1/15, C. 284 Acts of 2014.

NONE of the gun law stuff has been incorporated in the respective MGL sections online and according to a lawyer I was speaking with last night, even West hasn't published any of it in their addendums (lawyers subscribe to the books and they send out quarterly any changes). From what I was told by a senior MA gov't official this seems to be intentional. The lawyer was telling me that OC still needs an FID to possess legally as he couldn't find any changes in MGL (the books or online sources). I told him to read C. 284 Acts of 2014 otherwise nothing else will likely be corrected any time soon.

- - - Updated - - -

You need to do a practice run in this case. A dealer could get on MIRCS, punch in your LTC number and see if it takes. Simple. I'd do it for you. Jack.

Even simpler anyone can do a LTC verification online, same results.
 
Jason, here's the citation:

FID:

SECTION 36. Said section 129B of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby further amended by striking out paragraph (9) and inserting in place thereof the following paragraph:-
(9) A firearm identification card shall be valid, unless revoked or suspended, for a period of not more than 6 years from the date of issuance, except that if the cardholder applied for renewal before the card expired, the card shall remain valid after the expiration date on the card for all lawful purposes, until the application for renewal is approved or denied; provided, however, if the cardholder is on active duty with the armed forces of the United States on the expiration date of the card, the card shall remain valid until the cardholder is released from active duty and for a period of not less than 180 days following such release, except that if the cardholder applied for renewal prior to the end of such period, the card shall remain valid after the expiration date on the card for all lawful purposes, until the application for renewal is approved or denied. A card issued on February 29 shall expire on March 1. The commissioner of criminal justice information services shall send electronically or by first class mail to the holder of a firearm identification card, a notice of the expiration of the card not less than 90 days before its expiration and shall enclose with the notice a form for the renewal of the card. The form for renewal shall include an affidavit whereby the applicant shall verify that the applicant has not lost a firearm or had a firearm stolen from the applicant’s possession since the date of the applicant’s last renewal or issuance. The commissioner of criminal justice information services shall include in the notice all pertinent information about the penalties that may be imposed if the firearm identification card is not renewed. The commissioner of criminal justice information services shall provide electronic notice of expiration only upon the request of a cardholder. A request for electronic notice of expiration shall be forwarded to the department on a form furnished by the commissioner. Any electronic address maintained by the department to provide electronic notice of expiration shall be considered a firearms record and shall not be disclosed except as provided in section 10 of chapter 66.

LTC:

SECTION 53. Paragraph (i) of said section 131 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out the first sentence and inserting in place thereof the following 3 sentences:- A license to carry or possess firearms shall be valid, unless revoked or suspended, for a period of not more than 6 years from the date of issue and shall expire on the anniversary of the licensee's date of birth occurring not less than 5 years nor more than 6 years from the date of issue; provided, however, that, if the licensee applied for renewal before the license expired, the license shall remain valid after its expiration date for all lawful purposes until the application for renewal is approved or denied. If a licensee is on active duty with the armed forces of the United States on the expiration date of the license, the license shall remain valid until the licensee is released from active duty and for a period not less than 180 days following the release; provided, however, that, if the licensee applied for renewal prior to the end of that period, the license shall remain valid after its expiration date for all lawful purposes until the application for renewal is approved or denied. An application for renewal of a Class B license filed before the license has expired shall not extend the license beyond the stated expiration date; provided, that the Class B license shall expire on the anniversary of the licensee's date of birth occurring not less than 5 years nor more than 6 years from the date of issue.
 
I applied for renewal first week of Jan and was told it will be a while but the old one (which expired end of March) remains in effect. I asked for a receipt and was told "we don't do that". I said then it probably won't be in effect then will it? and was told to stock up on ammo. About 2 weeks ago I called the helpful folks at DCJIS to check on the status and was told it was approved and would be sent out "soon". Called back today thinking that 2 weeks should be soon enough and was told this time it was approved 2 days ago and will be sent out soon. They can't define soon or explain what I was told 2 weeks ago. God Bless America
 
I applied for renewal first week of Jan and was told it will be a while but the old one (which expired end of March) remains in effect. I asked for a receipt and was told "we don't do that". I said then it probably won't be in effect then will it? and was told to stock up on ammo. About 2 weeks ago I called the helpful folks at DCJIS to check on the status and was told it was approved and would be sent out "soon". Called back today thinking that 2 weeks should be soon enough and was told this time it was approved 2 days ago and will be sent out soon. They can't define soon or explain what I was told 2 weeks ago. God Bless America

I have heard several violations of MA gun law since January. All perpetrated by the licensing authorities. Just like it was after 1998...............through 2015.
 
I have heard several violations of MA gun law since January. All perpetrated by the licensing authorities. Just like it was after 1998...............through 2015.

That's because there are NO penalties against the licensing authorities in MA. So they will just continue doing what they want and screw their residents.

Suing them in court is no guarantee of winning either and again no expense to those who do this shit!
 
That's because there are NO penalties against the licensing authorities in MA. So they will just continue doing what they want and screw their residents.

I think we have a winner!

Suing them in court is no guarantee of winning either and again no expense to those who do this shit!

And I bet they still wonder why they don't always get the respect they want.
 
I got this reply from commonwealth second amendment pertaining to buying and selling after a ltc has expired but is in renewal with proper receipt.

" Yes, you can continue to purchase firearms and ammunition after your license
expires providing you've applied for your renewal prior to the expiration of
your license.* The FRB has been very clear on this and updated MIRCs to show
expired license with pending renewals as valid."

The problem is that I have contacted a few FFLs and they said that mircs will not let them process a purchase with a expired license in renewal while a few others have said it's not a problem. I don't know who's right, I would side with commonwealth second amendment. What do you all think? I sent CW2A another message on trying to clarify this issue.

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Last edited:
I got this reply from commonwealth second amendment pertaining to buying and selling after a ltc has expired but is in renewal with proper receipt.

" Yes, you can continue to purchase firearms and ammunition after your license
expires providing you've applied for your renewal prior to the expiration of
your license.* The FRB has been very clear on this and updated MIRCs to show
expired license with pending renewals as valid."

The problem is that I have contacted a few FFLs and they said that mircs will not let them process a purchase with a expired license in renewal while a few others have said it's not a problem. I don't know who's right, I would side with commonwealth second amendment. What do you all think? I sent CW2A another message on trying to clarify this issue.

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I'll save you the trouble of checking your email. What do you want Comm2A to do about this???

You have a copy of the memo sent by the FRB to all MA dealers. That is all you need to know. That's official. What Comm2A tells is is NOT official.

It is legal for a dealer to sell you guns and ammo if you have an expired license and your renewal is pending. Hard stop. That is the law and that's what the FRB has committed to supporting. If they don't believe you, show them the memo.

Better yet, If a dealer is too stupid to read their mail and understand the law take your business elsewhere.
 
When mine expired I couldn't buy SQUAT Even though the renewal was in process. If you can find a dealer to sell to you with an invalid permit, more power to you. P.S. I'm a retired LEO. And after 90 days you can not carry, unless you think you're above the law or one of those it's my right damn it type guys. Don't call me for bail money.
 
When mine expired I couldn't buy SQUAT Even though the renewal was in process. If you can find a dealer to sell to you with an invalid permit, more power to you. P.S. I'm a retired LEO. And after 90 days you can not carry, unless you think you're above the law or one of those it's my right damn it type guys. Don't call me for bail money.

You're wrong. Expired licenses remain valid indefinitely until a new license is issued or denied. That's the law.

When my LTC last expired, before the law changed, I continued to carry even after the 90 day 'grace period'. I did so for one simple reason: The only reason I was outside the grace period was because Boston PD failed to meet their statutory obligation to issue or deny within 40 days. There really was not tempt to fate.

That's no longer an issue, however, because there is no limit to the grace period.
 
I'll save you the trouble of checking your email. What do you want Comm2A to do about this???

You have a copy of the memo sent by the FRB to all MA dealers. That is all you need to know. That's official. What Comm2A tells is is NOT official.

It is legal for a dealer to sell you guns and ammo if you have an expired license and your renewal is pending. Hard stop. That is the law and that's what the FRB has committed to supporting. If they don't believe you, show them the memo.

Better yet, If a dealer is too stupid to read their mail and understand the law take your business elsewhere.

Thats exactly what I have done, I printed out the FRB memo to carry with me along with my receipt. I basically said to the FFL that gave me that line that their ignorance of the law will make me take my business elsewhere.
 
I predicted that a finite % of MA dealers will either act stupid or are just stupid and won't make the sales. Not at all surprised.

Might do some good to post a new thread here titled "MA Dealers who Won't Sell to those in Renewal". Many here will also see to it that they don't go back there with their valid LTCs either!

Nobody can force a dealer to make a sale, but we can do some things to make sure that they don't have too many such decisions to fret over! [devil]
 
I'm frankly amazed that FRB actually updated MIRCS so it successfully processes transfers for people whose licenses are expired but in process of renewal. Just goes to show that even in this state, positive change can happen and actually come to fruition.
 
I'm frankly amazed that FRB actually updated MIRCS so it successfully processes transfers for people whose licenses are expired but in process of renewal. Just goes to show that even in this state, positive change can happen and actually come to fruition.

Michaela told me that she is very proud of the fact that FRB met every deadline for implementing the changes in the new law, all in spite of not a $1 increase in her budget to accomplish the changes.
 
I predicted that a finite % of MA dealers will either act stupid or are just stupid and won't make the sales. Not at all surprised.

Might do some good to post a new thread here titled "MA Dealers who Won't Sell to those in Renewal". Many here will also see to it that they don't go back there with their valid LTCs either!

Nobody can force a dealer to make a sale, but we can do some things to make sure that they don't have too many such decisions to fret over! [devil]
I would post the shops that gave me the shaft, just say the word sir.

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Michaela told me that she is very proud of the fact that FRB met every deadline for implementing the changes in the new law, all in spite of not a $1 increase in her budget to accomplish the changes.
Psh, who needs to pay for stuff? Just pass the feel-good law and move on.

On a serious note, I'm impressed they were able to manage that with no additional budget. Makes me wonder how much unpaid overtime they had to pull.
 
Psh, who needs to pay for stuff? Just pass the feel-good law and move on.

On a serious note, I'm impressed they were able to manage that with no additional budget. Makes me wonder how much unpaid overtime they had to pull.

I'm pretty sure that she doesn't have her own IT staff and probably relies on the EOPS IT support people (whoever they are).

I know that she puts in plenty of OT and I'm willing to bet that since she's "management" that she doesn't get paid for it.
 
I'm frankly amazed that FRB actually updated MIRCS so it successfully processes transfers for people whose licenses are expired but in process of renewal. Just goes to show that even in this state, positive change can happen and actually come to fruition.

I give the FRB very high marks in the 'customer service' department. They can't change laws or policies, but they do execute their responsibilities professionally and by the book.
 
I predicted that a finite % of MA dealers will either act stupid or are just stupid and won't make the sales. Not at all surprised.

Might do some good to post a new thread here titled "MA Dealers who Won't Sell to those in Renewal". Many here will also see to it that they don't go back there with their valid LTCs either!

Nobody can force a dealer to make a sale, but we can do some things to make sure that they don't have too many such decisions to fret over! [devil]
Makes me think that the shop who told me the crap before is operating in another dimension. I'm so sick of all the misinformation going around.

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