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Buying Kruggerands

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My brother in law wants to give me cash to buy him three 1 oz kruggerands. Says he cant or shouldn't buy more from the guy he has been buying from but wants to work around it by having me to do it. I am seeing red flags but dont know if they are founded or not. Am I exposing myself to tax implications or what not?
 
Krugerrands are legal to buy, Kitco sells them, $1,665.46 each 1-11. 11+ $1.661.45ea.

Buy them in NH if you're worried about taxes.
 
Well at those prices doesnt 3 of them rise above the 5000.00 limit to where they must report the cash purchase to the feds or has it been upped to 10,000.00 now?
 
Pay cash, do not tell the dealer you name or anything else, buy the oldest dated coins you can, buy in NH if there is sales tax in MA, bring a scale (1.09 troy oz = 33.930 grams).
 
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So, you think your brother-in-law is trying to structure the payments to avoid federal reporting of financial transactions? If I were you, I'd tell your brother-in-law to go pound sand. If he is structuring or smurfing, you don't want to be involved.
 
I thought gifts of less than about $10K (can't remember the exact number) were not taxable....

So, you think your brother-in-law is trying to structure the payments to avoid federal reporting of financial transactions? If I were you, I'd tell your brother-in-law to go pound sand. If he is structuring or smurfing, you don't want to be involved.
 
I thought gifts of less than about $10K (can't remember the exact number) were not taxable....
The OP said nothing about a gift. The OP said his BIL will give him cash, the OP will then buy the gold, and then the OP will give the gold to the BIL, all because the BIL "cant or shouldn't buy more from the guy he has been buying."

That's not two mutual gifts.
 
And structuring transactions to avoid the reporting limit is a federal felony, isn't it?

The last thing you want to do is wind up in the headlights of a fed looking for a promotion.
 
The OP said nothing about a gift. The OP said his BIL will give him cash, the OP will then buy the gold, and then the OP will give the gold to the BIL, all because the BIL "cant or shouldn't buy more from the guy he has been buying."

That's not two mutual gifts.

Correct..

So, you think your brother-in-law is trying to structure the payments to avoid federal reporting of financial transactions? If I were you, I'd tell your brother-in-law to go pound sand. If he is structuring or smurfing, you don't want to be involved.

That was a definite thought that crossed my mind based on a short phone conversation that is to be continued later. I dont under stand though why he could just not keep buying 5000 dollars worth of gold at will if the reporting limit is now 10000 dollars.
 
buy American Eagles. When "Clark Rockefeller" was captured one of the stories that came out was he had bought Krugerrands and then exchanged them for Eagles, since there was some extra reporting that needs to happen when dealing with a a foreign coin and he wanted to not attract attention when on the run.
 
If he's too stupid to skirt the regs on his own he shouldn't have to be cajoling you into doing it for him. That just sounds like a recipe for failbus.

-Mike
 
That was a definite thought that crossed my mind based on a short phone conversation that is to be continued later. I dont under stand though why he could just not keep buying 5000 dollars worth of gold at will if the reporting limit is now 10000 dollars.
What's the motto for the ATF anti-strawman sale campaign? Don't lie for the other guy? Different law, but the same sort of issue applies.

Don't do it. Don't get involved. If he wants to try to structure his transactions to circumvent the federal reporting limits, that's his business, but he wants you to take the same risk for no reward. If it all went bad, you'd both wind up in the pen.

Yes, it is your BIL and you've got to negotiate the family issues. But sleeping on the couch for a while is better than sleeping in Club Fed.
 
Most likely, the guy wanting to buy the gold coins probably does not want the .gov to know he has them and what price was paid for them. It will affect the tax bill later on.

OR

For OPSEC reasons he does not want his dealer to know how big his stash is.

OR

He might have robbed a bank and is "investing" in tangible assets


This thread is confusing the crap out of me. Why can't he just go on different days? Find a different dealer? Seems odd.
 
What's the motto for the ATF anti-strawman sale campaign? Don't lie for the other guy? Different law, but the same sort of issue applies.

Don't do it. Don't get involved. If he wants to try to structure his transactions to circumvent the federal reporting limits, that's his business, but he wants you to take the same risk for no reward. If it all went bad, you'd both wind up in the pen.

Yes, it is your BIL and you've got to negotiate the family issues. But sleeping on the couch for a while is better than sleeping in Club Fed.

Dude… [laugh] With all due respect - you got to grow a pair. I know master’s whip is scary, but once in awhile you should try to get off your knees.

Where is proof that OP’s BIL is trying to do anything nefarious? Maybe he is simply too busy to do it himself? Or maybe he got under dealer’s skin, but he still likes that dealer’s price/collection? Or maybe he pumped the dealer for some key negotiation info and now needs someone else to come in and play a hardball for a good deal? Why do you automatically assume the BIL is smurfing? Besides, we as a nation must grow a pair and tell the Feds to go f*** themselves with these victimless so called crimes.
 
Dude… [laugh] With all due respect - you got to grow a pair. I know master’s whip is scary, but once in awhile you should try to get off your knees.
You know, I do my best to avoid going to the federal pen, where I might just end up on my knees.

Where is proof that OP’s BIL is trying to do anything nefarious? Maybe he is simply too busy to do it himself? Or maybe he got under dealer’s skin, but he still likes that dealer’s price/collection? Or maybe he pumped the dealer for some key negotiation info and now needs someone else to come in and play a hardball for a good deal? Why do you automatically assume the BIL is smurfing?
Um, did you read the OP? You know, this part?

Says he cant or shouldn't buy more from the guy he has been buying from but wants to work around it by having me to do it.
Is that proof? No. It isn't. Explain to me why someone might want his BIL to buy gold for him because "he can't or shouldn't" and it is something other than smurfing?

The law may or may not be BS. But you know what? I don't care to spend my time and money trying to keep my skinny (OK, no longer skinny) backside out of prison because my BIL doesn't want the feds to get a report about the gold he's buying. If you want to violate that law and then fight it in court to prove a point (and lose and wind up in the pen anyways), have at it. Me? No thanks. Feel free to "grow a pair" and go tilt at your windmills.
 
I'm confused by the answers here....

Seems with premiums, the total outlay is ~$5000

BIL gives him $5k, OP walks into dealer in NH, buys 3 coins with cash, Walks out, gives coins to BIL, BIL takes OP out for beers...

Nuff said...

As for reporting it is $10K cash. Income tax is based on profit when sold not when buying...

So all in all, this should be 100% ok and legal... Only avoiding sales tax would be the illegal issue...

As to why the BIL wont do this himself??? That's another story...
 
some states tax gold bullion purchases, some don't, YMMV
as of january 1, 1975 you can own gold in any form, in any amount you can afford without restriction and without having to report your holdings.
transactions of $10,000 or more are reported if they involve actual currency, a check or wire transfer from a bank will not be reported when buying gold...
if he's doing shady shit though and doesn't want to put $10k in the bank, well, there's your red flag....
 
BSA reporting requirement is $10,000 or more (in a nutshell) in cash. Dealer must file the form if transaction exceeds that.

I think this is per day as well. I know a lot of dealers do it per day. Unless your JGM Numismatics in Beverly. He is a total asshat and treaten to report me for buying two gold coins. I said it seems like your in bed with the IRS and left.
 
$10,000 is not a lot of money these days... I think the $10K rule was from the 70's due to drug money... $10K was a lot then, but now it's not, just goes to show you, what might "appear" to be a good thing at the time, wont be in a few years... Sad that they will not ratchet it up now that the buying power of it is less...

I'd walk out of anyplace that threatened to report it if it was under the $10K...
 
…Explain to me why someone might want his BIL to buy gold for him because "he can't or shouldn't" and it is something other than smurfing?

Too many of us think this way and IMHO this is the main reason we seem to comfortably live in the police state. For decades I have known that I am a free-range slave, but at least 20 years ago fences felt faraway and I could fool myself in feeling like a free man. Today the fences are so close that I no longer can fool myself. Maybe in a few years you too will start feeling like a barn animal and then will be willing to stand up. Situations like the one faced by OP is probably the easiest way to regain some self-respect and assert your human rights.

For now - It is legal to buy gold; it is legal to sell gold; and it is legal to remain silent. That is ALL that OP needs to know. OP does NOT need to answer ANY questions or come up with ANY explanations for ANYTHING. If wrongfully arrested – sue! Many naively think that appeasing “authority” by answering questions or helping investigation is a good thing and will get them off the hook. I treat agents of all kind as I would any human being who is a stranger. If he/she is nice and polite, I too will be civil. If the stranger asks personal questions, I end the conversation. I usually do not assist strangers in looking for cats unless I find such help appropriate. I equally do not assist agents in their investigations. Unlike many YTs and childish “activists”, I do not seek confrontation or try to insult agents, but I also do not piss myself in their presence. In all honesty, so far my exposure has only been with traffic cops, suspicionless-checkpoints (both immigration near Canada and drunk net) and border crossings. So I have not yet had to deal with IRS or other alphabet soup, but I hope my testicular fortitude would not vanish just because the color of the costume. Besides ever tried to tell the border crossing guard that what you do for work is personal information and is not relevant to my journey home? Yeah, it ain’t easy. Since at the border we are almost completely stripped of our dignity/human rights – we nearly completely at agent’s mercy. For OP to tell an IRS goon to go pound sand would be a walk in a park in comparison.



…As to why the BIL wont do this himself??? That's another story...

No, why is the key question!!! However, OP is not obligated to ask it and therefore OP would be in his rights to tell any gov agent to go pound sand.

The way is important because it is “illegal” (or properly phrased – against IMF regulations, which are enforced by our treasury and IRS) to structure currency transactions to avoid $10K reporting limit. So if BIL comes in every week (for a few months) and buys in cash $5K worth of gold each time – he could be accused of structuring. BIL can also be accused of structuring if he uses smurfs such as the OP.

Either way it’s a victimless crime and another infringement on common law. Unless BIL bought a few tons of gold, it will be imposable to prove anything. However, we are not talking about BIL, but OP. As long as OP does not know he is assisting in structuring he did NOTHING wrong. If anyone asks – he simply needs to keep his mouth shut. If wrongfully arrested – sue!
 
Oh, I see. No one will know any better and how could they prove anything and what could possibly go wrong? [rolleyes]

OPM, why don't you have arlow point his BIL to you. You can help him out, since you seem so eager to convince other people to get involved in a possible federal felony.
 
Still confused here...

What is the felony here???

Say I get paid once a month... Each month I have $5K to invest in gold (stocks, silver, guns or porn). Does that constitute a structured transaction? Or just the way my finances play out? All the time people buy stocks this way. And since it's an "investment" why should it be any different?

Now, if i did buy $5k in gold each month i would probably use different dealers. Why? I don't want people to be suspicious (sad it's come to this). But people are always putting their noses where they do not belong and thinking the worst.

On that note, why does the BIL not go someplace else?

As for where he got the $5K, one could speculate all sorts of reasons, drugs, theft etc... But when I sold my motorcycles, I asked for cash and I never once asked or even thought the money could have come from illicit means... That's none of my business. What should I do? Ask what he makes, how long did he save for the money, ask if he had it in cash or took out a withdrawal etc? No...

I think the saddest part of all this is that it's even being a discussion... That we fear the gobermint this much that we cant spend our own money in anyway we choose without justifying how when and why we got the money...

Now i can speculate on all sorts of ways he got the money, legitimate or illicit. But if I was a dealer and he wanted to spend $5K, I'd sell him the gold, write him a receipt, take the money and move on to the next customer.
 

Say I get paid once a month... Each month I have $5K to invest in gold (stocks, silver, guns or porn). Does that constitute a structured transaction? Or just the way my finances play out? All the time people buy stocks this way. And since it's an "investment" why should it be any different?

That is one transaction at the time as I "only have" $5K to spend each month... The other possibility is "dollar cost averaging". Which assumes I have more to spend at a given time, but chose to buy on dips to reduce my overall cost.

Just saying that the BIL and OP never said they are trying to get around anything... So I'm playing good guy here by saying nothing but speculation is saying this is shady... Granted it's a bit bizarre...
 
That is one transaction at the time as I "only have" $5K to spend each month... The other possibility is "dollar cost averaging". Which assumes I have more to spend at a given time, but chose to buy on dips to reduce my overall cost.
Yes, that would not be structuring.

Just saying that the BIL and OP never said they are trying to get around anything...
Oh, come on. Reread the OP:

My brother in law wants to give me cash to buy him three 1 oz kruggerands. Says he cant or shouldn't buy more from the guy he has been buying from but wants to work around it by having me to do it.
What possible reason would there be, other than structuring, for the BIL not to buy the gold himself?

Is this proof that he is attempting to structure? No. But how would it be in the OP's best interest to get involved in a deal that is already making him feel hinky?
 
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