Buying, keeping, and selling a gun out-of-state?

[Kalahari]

Hey all,

Some of you may know that I'm spending a semester in northern New Mexico (Taos). Needless to say, there's some great shooting country out here.

A few buddies and I would like to purchase long arms for the semester, and possibly re-sell them before we leave. We've already set up a place with the school to store them, so we're not worried about storage laws.

In any case, is there anything I need to know about buying, keeping, and possibly re-selling the gun here in New Mexico? Do I still need to fill out an FA-10 if I never bring the gun back to Massachusetts? And must I abide by Massachusetts laws (no high-capacity magazines, etc.)? I only hold an FID, so if possible, it'd be nice to own something for a few months that I couldn't otherwise in Massachusetts.

Much appreciated guys,

CJ

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

You are in New Mexico. As hard as they try, the AG and others do not dictate our laws to other states.

As long as it is legal under NM and Fed law, go for it! No FA10 or other MA BS, unless you bring it home with you.

 

[Jose]

Kalahari, do you stick to MA's 65 mph speed limit in Texas, where the speed limit on many freeways away from cities is higher, sometimes MUCH higher?

 

[drgrant]

You can basically own whatever you want outside of MA.

However, be aware that if you didn't swap residency, a dealer might try to impose the federal "must be legal in your state of residence" BS on you. (This is dictated in US code- JD and I had a discussion on it here awhile ago.... My argument was that many dealers don't pay attention, but JD was right in the respect that this provision still is in the law. I don't think it's ever been court tested, because honestly, it defies logic, legally. )

Of course, there's a way around this, you can just build whatever you want, if it's an AR or something like that.

Then when you go to sell it there, sell it through an FFL, this eliminates any problems there with you being a nonresident.

-Mike

 

[ShadeWPI]

Kala,

Under Federal Law:

If the buyer and seller of a firearm reside in different states, the sale must include a transfer through FFL

You can only purchase a handgun from a FFL in your State of Residency

You can only purchase a longgun from an FFL if it is legal to own in your State of Residency.

So technically, unless you change your state or Residency from Massachussetts to New Mexico, you can't purchase a longgun which would not be legal to own in MA, however as pointed out, many FFLs not in neighboring states may not be aware of MA's strict laws and thus may not pay a lot of attention to that.

You best option would be to get a New Mexico driver's licence when you move out there, allowing you to buy under NM's residency laws, own what you want and then return to MA. When you return to MA, you'll want to sell anything that is illegal to own in MA, but you could keep certain items that are illegal to sell (since the AG's consumer protection laws only limit was MA dealers can sell, not what residents can own) but are still legal to town.

 

[kevin9]

The ATF basically says where you are living and making or intending to make a home is your state of residence. ATF ruling 80-21 speaks directly to state residency definitions for out of state college students. It says:

during the time the students actually reside in college dormitory or at an off-campus location they are considered residents of the state where the dormitory or off-campus home is located.

As I read this you don't have to change your drivers license or other formal indication of residency. My understanding also is you would be asked to attest to your residency in NM, and possibly asked by a dealer to show some evidence of living in a NM college dormitory or off-campus residence to support that assertion.

Good luck.

 

[Kalahari]

You are in New Mexico. As hard as they try, the AG and others do not dictate our laws to other states.

As long as it is legal under NM and Fed law, go for it! No FA10 or other MA BS, unless you bring it home with you.

Right. Just wanted to make sure because I know that even though 18 year olds can own handguns in Texas, I still cannot because of MA laws. I wasn't sure about long guns.

Kalahari, do you stick to MA's 65 mph speed limit in Texas, where the speed limit on many freeways away from cities is higher, sometimes MUCH higher?

Better safe than sorry. And as some have pointed out, there's actually a chance that it might be illegal.

You can basically own whatever you want outside of MA.

However, be aware that if you didn't swap residency, a dealer might try to impose the federal "must be legal in your state of residence" BS on you. (This is dictated in US code- JD and I had a discussion on it here awhile ago.... My argument was that many dealers don't pay attention, but JD was right in the respect that this provision still is in the law. I don't think it's ever been court tested, because honestly, it defies logic, legally. )

Of course, there's a way around this, you can just build whatever you want, if it's an AR or something like that.

Then when you go to sell it there, sell it through an FFL, this eliminates any problems there with you being a nonresident.

-Mike

Got it. Thank you very much, Mike.

Kala,

Under Federal Law:

If the buyer and seller of a firearm reside in different states, the sale must include a transfer through FFL

You can only purchase a handgun from a FFL in your State of Residency

You can only purchase a longgun from an FFL if it is legal to own in your State of Residency.

So technically, unless you change your state or Residency from Massachussetts to New Mexico, you can't purchase a longgun which would not be legal to own in MA, however as pointed out, many FFLs not in neighboring states may not be aware of MA's strict laws and thus may not pay a lot of attention to that.

You best option would be to get a New Mexico driver's licence when you move out there, allowing you to buy under NM's residency laws, own what you want and then return to MA. When you return to MA, you'll want to sell anything that is illegal to own in MA, but you could keep certain items that are illegal to sell (since the AG's consumer protection laws only limit was MA dealers can sell, not what residents can own) but are still legal to town.

I'd rather not lean on FFLs being unaware of MA law. If there's a decent chance that its illegal, I'm going to play it safe. There's already enough shaky ground having a gun around the school campus . Yes, even in Texas...

The ATF basically says where you are living and making or intending to make a home is your state of residence. ATF ruling 80-21 speaks directly to state residency definitions for out of state college students. It says:
As I read this you don't have to change your drivers license or other formal indication of residency. My understanding also is you would be asked to attest to your residency in NM, and possibly asked by a dealer to show some evidence of living in a NM college dormitory or off-campus residence to support that assertion.

Good luck.

Thank you very much.

 

[drgrant]

As I read this you don't have to change your drivers license or other formal indication of residency. My understanding also is you would be asked to attest to your residency in NM, and possibly asked by a dealer to show some evidence of living in a NM college dormitory or off-campus residence to support that assertion.

Without having a state level DL/ID or a Mil ID with orders, many dealers will not sell you a firearm. Some dealers will use proof of residency (eg, a tax or utility bill, or a property lease, deed, etc. ) + whatever photo ID the person has.

-Mike

 

[appraiser]

but if he does for the sake of buying a gun using the "I'm a student in Texas and the feds say that's my place of residence by their rules" does that make his MA resident LTC null and void under MA rules?

Now as far as long arms go, you can IIRC IANAL buy a long gun anywhere FFL, as long as it is MA legal, and just file a FA-10 within the MA mandated time period.

Could he buy out of state, mail a FA-10 back to MA and be legal?

 

[jdubois]

However, be aware that if you didn't swap residency, a dealer might try to impose the federal "must be legal in your state of residence" BS on you. (This is dictated in US code- JD and I had a discussion on it here awhile ago.... My argument was that many dealers don't pay attention, but JD was right in the respect that this provision still is in the law. I don't think it's ever been court tested, because honestly, it defies logic, legally. )

I don't think he has to worry about any of those issues, since ATF has clearly ruled that he'd be a NM resident for the purposes of the GCA.

Without having a state level DL/ID or a Mil ID with orders, many dealers will not sell you a firearm. Some dealers will use proof of residency (eg, a tax or utility bill, or a property lease, deed, etc. ) + whatever photo ID the person has.

I've heard of several dealers out there that will accept a college ID as proof of residency. (By out there, I mean, somewhere in the country; I have no idea about NM).

but if he does for the sake of buying a gun using the "I'm a student in Texas and the feds say that's my place of residence by their rules" does that make his MA resident LTC null and void under MA rules?

No, because the rules for residency under the GCA are different than those under state law.

Now as far as long arms go, you can IIRC IANAL buy a long gun anywhere FFL, as long as it is MA legal, and just file a FA-10 within the MA mandated time period.

Could he buy out of state, mail a FA-10 back to MA and be legal?

No need to file an FA-10 unless and until the gun physically enters the state. MA law has no jurisdiction in NM, even if you are a MA resident.

 

[tele_mark]

Kalahari, do you stick to MA's 65 mph speed limit in Texas, where the speed limit on many freeways away from cities is higher, sometimes MUCH higher?

When I was 18 and moved out of MAss for the first time, I asked my father whether I had to notify the State that I was moving. He was mildly amused.

 

[drgrant]

I don't think he has to worry about any of those issues, since ATF has clearly ruled that he'd be a NM resident for the purposes of the GCA.

He would, if he claimed MA residency @ the dealer. If he claims NM, then that's a different story altogether, as you suggest.

-Mike

 

[appraiser]

No need to file an FA-10 unless and until the gun physically enters the state. MA law has no jurisdiction in NM, even if you are a MA resident.

I was assuming it would come home to MA eventually, my bad