Buying Ammo And Guns During Grace Period

[Emoto]

No he wouldn't have to be an idiot, the law is clear. If the person has reapplied and has the receipt for his application, the license he holds is still valid. What part of that do you not understand?

If nobody is going to accept the law as its written, then all the effort and bullshit that GOAL and others put into getting it passed was all for nothing and it might just as well be repealed for the useless waist of taxpayer money that it is.
If a sale is made with the proper paperwork shown, an expired license within the grace period and a receipt of reapplication or a copy of the reapplication then there is notheing wrong and no FFL is going to be under any burden. Jesus Christ....some people are their own worst enemies when it comes to making things difficult.

Are you next going to say that if you are caught carrying your gun on an expired license (with a receipt of reapplication) within the grace period that you are carrying illegally? Get a grip....thats what the grace period was enacted for.

Think about what state this is, and think about how gun owners and gun dealers are demonized and then think about how wise it would be.

The grace period, as I understand it, was so that you could still possess your guns with an "expired" license, rather than having to give them up to a friend or whoever until your new permit arrived. Yes, you can make the case that you are still "legal" for those 90 days, and by extension of logic should be able to buy guns and ammo under those conditions, but think about the FFL. If he loses his FFL or any local or state licenses, he is out of business with zero income. This is like a liquor store accepting something other than standard ID for proof of age. Is there a statute-defined official receipt that shows someone applied? How is the FFL to know if what they are being shown is real or not? Why should the FFL risk his entire business over one sale?

 

[dwarven1]

Here's another question to think about: You have an LTC, you have a receipt showing that you re-applied... how does the gun store owner know you're going to GET that permit renewed?

Suppose for a moment that you have already been denied and you still have the old LTC and the receipt. If the gun store owner accepts them as proof, you could, conceivably (depending on timing), use them for over 2 months AFTER you've been denied a renewal.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Like I said....some people and particulalrly you, are your own worst enemy when it comes to your own gun rights.

You think as if its some kind of Cinderella situation where a lawfully licensed gun owner at the stroke of midnight on the expiration date of his license turns into a demonic criminal. Nothing could be further from the truth and statistics prove it beyond any shadow of a doubt.

If the legislature believed that, there would be no grace period or there would have been a specific prohibition written into the one that was passed with regard to purchases of guns or ammo during such period. Maybe they didn't think of that but I doubt it.....remember, this is Massachusetts we are talking here, just like you said.

If the law says the license is still valid within a specified period of time with proper reapplication done within the prescribed window, then thats good enough for me. I'm not going go into ludicrous nit picking and give the anti gun asswipes any more ammo to use against gun owners.

As far as an FFL goes, they don't have to sell you the time of day if they don't like the color of shirt you are wearing. The decision is totally up to them...for any reason or for no reason at all....alway has been and probably always will be, but the law as written does not put forth any prohibitions on them for selling to anyone under the grace period of their valid license. You can read into it any and all fantasies that you want....it doesn't change the law as written. I'll say it again....you are your own WORST enemy when it comes to your gun rights and if people continue as you do, they'll be completely gone before you know it.

 

[highlander]

My birthday is in March and I am going in to the PD on Tuesday
to start the renewal process I'll let you know what receipts if any I get. BTW my PD wants cash no checks.
I always thought that the 90 day grace period was to cover you if the "State" is backlogged on issuing permits

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

My birthday is in March and I am going in to the PD on Tuesday
to start the renewal process I'll let you know what receipts if any I get. BTW my PD wants cash no checks.
I always thought that the 90 day grace period was to cover you if the "State" is backlogged on issuing permits

It says no such thing in the law, and if you don't get a copy, or if you don't ASK for a copy of your reapplication AND a receipt for your cash with it annotated that its for a gun license reapplication, you are at fault for not getting it.

 

[Emoto]

Like I said....some people and particulalrly you, are your own worst enemy when it comes to your own gun rights.

You think as if its some kind of Cinderella situation where a lawfully licensed gun owner at the stroke of midnight on the expiration date of his license turns into a demonic criminal. Nothing could be further from the truth and statistics prove it beyond any shadow of a doubt.

If the legislature believed that, there would be no grace period or there would have been a specific prohibition written into the one that was passed with regard to purchases of guns or ammo during such period. Maybe they didn't think of that but I doubt it.....remember, this is Massachusetts we are talking here, just like you said.

If the law says the license is still valid within a specified period of time with proper reapplication done within the prescribed window, then thats good enough for me. I'm not going go into ludicrous nit picking and give the anti gun asswipes any more ammo to use against gun owners.

As far as an FFL goes, they don't have to sell you the time of day if they don't like the color of shirt you are wearing. The decision is totally up to them...for any reason or for no reason at all....alway has been and probably always will be, but the law as written does not put forth any prohibitions on them for selling to anyone under the grace period of their valid license. You can read into it any and all fantasies that you want....it doesn't change the law as written. I'll say it again....you are your own WORST enemy when it comes to your gun rights and if people continue as you do, they'll be completely gone before you know it.

I have no idea why you take such great pleasure(?) or comfort(?) in a law that has absolutely no real world value beyond helping to prevent someone from being in illegal possession of their guns if the state is slow with the permit renewal. In spite of your argument on the de jure status of someone awaiting renewal post-expiration date, it is the de facto status that matters.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

And, I don't know why you and others insist on reading something into the law that isn't there. The law states that the license is still valid under the prescribed conditons....valid means valid....and with that validity comes all the authority to do what the permit/license entails, one of which is the purchase of guns and ammunition. I don't take any pleasure or comfort in the law, its jusrt another barrier to my and everyone elses liberty, but unlike you, I don't sit and try to think of ways to further restrict myself under a law that is clear in its writing and publication.

I have no idea why you take such great pleasure(?) or comfort(?) in a law that has absolutely no real world value beyond helping to prevent someone from being in illegal possession of their guns if the state is slow with the permit renewal. In spite of your argument on the de jure status of someone awaiting renewal post-expiration date, it is the de facto status that matters.

 

[Emoto]

And, I don't know why you and others insist on reading something into the law that isn't there. The law states that the license is still valid under the prescribed conditons....valid means valid....and with that validity comes all the authority to do what the permit/license entails, one of which is the purchase of guns and ammunition. I don't take any pleasure or comfort in the law, its jusrt another barrier to my and everyone elses liberty, but unlike you, I don't sit and try to think of ways to further restrict myself under a law that is clear in its writing and publication.

I DON'T sit and try to think of ways to further restrict myself. You can take that kind of crap and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

You cannot seem to grasp the simple concept that the aspect of the law you are so staunchly defending is COMPLETELY WORTHLESS for anything beyond mere possession out in the REAL WORLD where most of us live. Out in the real world, your interpretation of the law - even if completely valid - is worth absolutely nothing. Zip. Zero. Nada. Naught. Null. Nothing.

The truth of the matter is that the attitudes and prosecutorial behavior toward guns, gun owners, and vendors in this state mean that nobody is going to stick their neck out on the chopping block. Go take an expired license to 10 gun stores and try to buy even just ammo and let us know how you make out.

When the phone doesn't ring, I'll know it's you not calling.

 

[dwarven1]

GENTLEMEN!!

Can we dial this back a few notches and keep it polite?

 

[Emoto]

Sorry.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I DON'T sit and try to think of ways to further restrict myself. You can take that kind of crap and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

You cannot seem to grasp the simple concept that the aspect of the law you are so staunchly defending is COMPLETELY WORTHLESS for anything beyond mere possession out in the REAL WORLD where most of us live. Out in the real world, your interpretation of the law - even if completely valid - is worth absolutely nothing. Zip. Zero. Nada. Naught. Null. Nothing.

The truth of the matter is that the attitudes and prosecutorial behavior toward guns, gun owners, and vendors in this state mean that nobody is going to stick their neck out on the chopping block. Go take an expired license to 10 gun stores and try to buy even just ammo and let us know how you make out.

When the phone doesn't ring, I'll know it's you not calling.

Don't bet on it. I assure you I could buy a gun or ammo at a licensed gunshop without so much as a blink of an eye under the prescribed conditions we are talking about.

 

[KMaurer]

Unless there's something more to be said on this topic than additional repetitions of "Can not!" ... "Can too!" ... "Can not!" ... "Can too!", we might as well all move on to something more interesting.

Ken

 

[Mikey]

see as i started this um "debate", I just wanted to say thanks for the replys.
Also I just picked up ammo from Dicks with my expired permit and renewal conformation. Could be the kid at the counter just did not care but i still got
it.

And also if I may ask one more question, This is my first renewal with the new system will my permit be mailed to me or to the PD? Today is day 44 and i am in a "gun friendly" town.

 

[dwarven1]

And also if I may ask one more question, This is my first renewal with the new system will my permit be mailed to me or to the PD? Today is day 44 and i am in a "gun friendly" town.

IIRC, I had to go pick mine up, so I'd guess that you will have to do the same. You might want to give them a call and just ask if it's in.

 

[Emoto]

Don't bet on it. I assure you I could buy a gun or ammo at a licensed gunshop without so much as a blink of an eye under the prescribed conditions we are talking about.

You need not assure me or anyone else. Go try it 10x at gun stores and report back.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

You need not assure me or anyone else. Go try it 10x at gun stores and report back.

I'll give you the last word on it, nut one is all I need to prove the point. I haven't been to ten gunshops in the past five years and I hardly think I'm going to do it to satisfy your challenge. The original poster has already proven the point also and answerd his own question. It can be done and is perfectly legal. I'm done.

 

[C-pher]

Also I just picked up ammo from Dicks with my expired permit and renewal conformation. Could be the kid at the counter just did not care but i still got
it.

And also if I may ask one more question, This is my first renewal with the new system will my permit be mailed to me or to the PD? Today is day 44 and i am in a "gun friendly" town.

If you don't mind me asking, which Dick's did you go to?

And, I had to pick mine up as well. I have a buddy here at work that lives in Plymouth, they mailed out his.

So, I think that it depends in which town you live.

 

[C-pher]

I'll give you the last word on it, nut one is all I need to prove the point. I haven't been to ten gunshops in the past five years and I hardly think I'm going to do it to satisfy your challenge. The original poster has already proven the point also and answerd his own question. It can be done and is perfectly legal. I'm done.

I think that there's two different issues here.

-Walking into the shop with an expired license and renewal receipts.

-And walking into the shop with only the expired license and "saying" that you already renewed.

Call me what you will. When I'm working in the store, and you come in to buy something, I'm going to ask for your permit. If you show it to me, and it's expired I'm going to tell you that it's expired and ask if you've renewed. If you say, that you're renewed...I'm going to ask to see your paperwork.

IF you show it to me, then we're golden. If you say that you don't have anything, then I'm not selling to you. Sorry, but again I'm not risking my ass on your word. Even if you're my best friend.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

One question for shop owners - will the new on-line system accept entry of a purchase on an expired but renewed LTC? It may be the case that the new style licenses haven't started expiring yet, in which case experimental verification would be difficult.

 

[C-pher]

One question for shop owners - will the new on-line system accept entry of a purchase on an expired but renewed LTC? It may be the case that the new style licenses haven't started expiring yet, in which case experimental verification would be difficult.

Good point. As a lot of the people that are expiring are folks with the old card...it would make it hard as they wouldn't be in the new system.

We don't have the new setup yet...so I have no idea how it works. But it would be neat to know if it somehow would be able to tell you...

 

[Emoto]

I'll give you the last word on it, nut one is all I need to prove the point. I haven't been to ten gunshops in the past five years and I hardly think I'm going to do it to satisfy your challenge. The original poster has already proven the point also and answerd his own question. It can be done and is perfectly legal. I'm done.

Well, the big box stores have traditionally had issues in checking the correct ID, so I am not sure what was proven there, other than someone bought ammo at a big box store. I think I have yet to make my point to you clearly. I am not contesting that it is legal or that it can be done, what I am, and have been, saying is that you will have one hell of a time finding any gun store (Dick's and WalMart are not gun stores) who will do this because the vast majority of them will see doing so as an unnecessary risk. Theory (you) vs. reality (me).

 

[Mikey]

Three things...

One - The dicks was the one in Hadley,

Two - I called the PD and was told they will mail my LTC to me. thanks for the replys

and

Three - As far as i can tell everyone is somewhat right on the issue of buying during your grace period, If you read the law it is perfectly legal, But weather or not that gun shops wants to sell to you is up to them.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[Coyote33]

It has been over EIGHT YEARS since the enactment of Chapter 180. The licensing horror stories have been collected and published on this forum and every other firearms forum I've been to, as well as in The Outdoor Message virtually every month.

Anyone who still relies on the police for competent licensing advice and fair treatment after all that documentation of abuse has been in a coma for the last decade or has a near-terminal case of recto-cranial inversion.

I would guess that a majority of people renewing and maybe even first applying for their licenses has not even heard of GOAL, Chapter 180, or "computer forums". Remember, you are dealing with a lot of old timers and people who have no clue. The ones on here are the curious or more informed ones.


I would think the fingerprinting thing could be one solution to this. If you scan in your fingerprint and it is OK, then you are OK to do your transaction. If, for some reason, you are prohibited, it would then reject you. I guess there must be something wrong with that scenario. I'm sure someone will also quickly point that out.