Buying a gun from an old relative who's license wasn't renewed

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I was wondering what the legality of buying a gun from my wife's grandfather, who was denied a license renewal for one reason or another.

He's in his 87th year. He Is a Korean War veteran. My wife and I took the kids to go visit him last weekend and the topic of his guns came up. He told me his ltc hadn't been renewed because the state police gave him the thumbs down. I tried to get the whole story so we could come up with a plan to get his license renewed. He wasn't interested in renewing he told me and I could tell that he was just disgusted with the whole thing. He has given his small collection to his nephew for safe keeping.

So I offered to buy the guns I could afford to, and he said that would be fine.

Before I do make a purchase, is there a rush? His license will expire on the 20th of this month. Based on a quick web search, the atf website seems to indicate that it would be fine for him to sell his guns with no license but does that apply here in Massachusetts? I just want to make sure I'm following the laws.

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give me.
 
IANAL nor an ATF agent, but I would THINK that he could just sell you up to four of the guns as an EFA-10 transfer up until the 20th. After that, you'd need to go through an FFL.

The real test? Have him try to log into the transactions portal as the seller. Provided the system recognizes his license number and PIN, he ought to be golden.
 
Picton is correct - if the license is valid, he can eFA-10 you (4). If you want more, use that for any that are not on the Mass approved roster, as a dealer may not want to do the transfer. Guns 5+ need to go through an FFL.

If his license will not be renewed, he cannot have possession of any guns (except for antiques, BP, etc.) after expiration, but he can still OWN them. A friend or relative that is suitably licensed can lawfully hold onto them for him. When he wishes to sell/give away them, he will need to use an FFL. A person suitably licensed will have to transport them to the FFL.
 
IANAL nor an ATF agent, but I would THINK that he could just sell you up to four of the guns as an EFA-10 transfer up until the 20th. After that, you'd need to go through an FFL.

The real test? Have him try to log into the transactions portal as the seller. Provided the system recognizes his license number and PIN, he ought to be golden.

This


Likely true but not legal.

And this regarding more than four.


EFA10 the first four and for the balance use an FFL.
 
Here's what I've had some of my clients do:

Go to the gun portal and surrender the guns to the police. Print 3 copies of each EFA10.
Go to the gun portal and transfer the surrendered guns to transferee (nephew or grandson-in-law). Print 3 copies of each EFA10.
Grandfather-in-in law writes letter to police authorizing transfer of surrendered guns.
Grandson-on-law writes letter to police informing police that he will NOT return guns to grandfather-in-law unless he becomes properly licensed.
Uncle writes letter to police authorizing transfer of surrendered guns to nephew.
Nephew writes letter to police informing police that he will NOT return guns to uncle unless he becomes properly licensed.
Grandfather/uncle, nephew, and grandson-in-law all go to police station with guns, EFA10s, and letters to surrender guns.
Go inside with paperwork, and leave guns locked in trunk of car outside (properly stored)
Tell them you wish to surrender and transfer the guns.
If you're lucky, police will take paperwork and tell you to leave. Otherwise, bring in the guns, surrender them. and ask when they will be delivered to the new owners.


Notes: IAAL.
No limit on number of transfers when done as a result of surrender to police. No FFL required.
 
If his renewal was denied, he was required to surrender his guns to the police.

Swat: If you never applied for renewal, meaning submitting an app, but were simply told by the LO, "We're not going to renew" why would not the existing license remain in force, absent notification of suspension/revocation, until the expiration date on the card?

I'm asking, as YAAL [laugh]
 
Here's what I've had some of my clients do:

Go to the gun portal and surrender the guns to the police. Print 3 copies of each EFA10.
Go to the gun portal and transfer the surrendered guns to transferee (nephew or grandson-in-law). Print 3 copies of each EFA10.
Grandfather-in-in law writes letter to police authorizing transfer of surrendered guns.
Grandson-on-law writes letter to police informing police that he will NOT return guns to grandfather-in-law unless he becomes properly licensed.
Uncle writes letter to police authorizing transfer of surrendered guns to nephew.
Nephew writes letter to police informing police that he will NOT return guns to uncle unless he becomes properly licensed.
Grandfather/uncle, nephew, and grandson-in-law all go to police station with guns, EFA10s, and letters to surrender guns.
Go inside with paperwork, and leave guns locked in trunk of car outside (properly stored)
Tell them you wish to surrender and transfer the guns.
If you're lucky, police will take paperwork and tell you to leave. Otherwise, bring in the guns, surrender them. and ask when they will be delivered to the new owners.


Notes: IAAL.
No limit on number of transfers when done as a result of surrender to police. No FFL required.

And maybe bring a lawyer with you. Better to be prepared going in than fight afterwards.
 
Again, OP, has he tried to log into the portal?

If he can, there's no reason he can't just transfer four of them. The rest are indefinitely okay at his nephew's house. See Post 5. He can't possess them, but he can own them.
 
Here's what I've had some of my clients do:

Go to the gun portal and surrender the guns to the police. Print 3 copies of each EFA10.
Go to the gun portal and transfer the surrendered guns to transferee (nephew or grandson-in-law). Print 3 copies of each EFA10.
Grandfather-in-in law writes letter to police authorizing transfer of surrendered guns.
Grandson-on-law writes letter to police informing police that he will NOT return guns to grandfather-in-law unless he becomes properly licensed.
Uncle writes letter to police authorizing transfer of surrendered guns to nephew.
Nephew writes letter to police informing police that he will NOT return guns to uncle unless he becomes properly licensed.
Grandfather/uncle, nephew, and grandson-in-law all go to police station with guns, EFA10s, and letters to surrender guns.
Go inside with paperwork, and leave guns locked in trunk of car outside (properly stored)
Tell them you wish to surrender and transfer the guns.
If you're lucky, police will take paperwork and tell you to leave. Otherwise, bring in the guns, surrender them. and ask when they will be delivered to the new owners.


Notes: IAAL.
No limit on number of transfers when done as a result of surrender to police. No FFL required.
The cops won't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Jack.
 
Here's what I've had some of my clients do:

Go to the gun portal and surrender the guns to the police. Print 3 copies of each EFA10.
Go to the gun portal and transfer the surrendered guns to transferee (nephew or grandson-in-law). Print 3 copies of each EFA10.
Grandfather-in-in law writes letter to police authorizing transfer of surrendered guns.
Grandson-on-law writes letter to police informing police that he will NOT return guns to grandfather-in-law unless he becomes properly licensed.
Uncle writes letter to police authorizing transfer of surrendered guns to nephew.
Nephew writes letter to police informing police that he will NOT return guns to uncle unless he becomes properly licensed.
Grandfather/uncle, nephew, and grandson-in-law all go to police station with guns, EFA10s, and letters to surrender guns.
Go inside with paperwork, and leave guns locked in trunk of car outside (properly stored)
Tell them you wish to surrender and transfer the guns.
If you're lucky, police will take paperwork and tell you to leave. Otherwise, bring in the guns, surrender them. and ask when they will be delivered to the new owners.


Notes: IAAL.
No limit on number of transfers when done as a result of surrender to police. No FFL required.
Sounds like a solid plan. But nope, no way I’d be going to the local PD asking for help transferring guns.
 
Again, OP, has he tried to log into the portal?

If he can, there's no reason he can't just transfer four of them. The rest are indefinitely okay at his nephew's house. See Post 5. He can't possess them, but he can own them.
The cops won't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Jack.
Sounds like a solid plan. But nope, no way I’d be going to the local PD asking for help transferring guns.
Yeah that just seems like a huge can of worms
You are all missing the fact that his application has been denied. Under MGL Chapter 140, section 129D he is required to, without delay, surrender his guns to the local police, or risk jail for two and a half years.
 
He can keep the guns until date of expiration. 40 MGL 129B is clear:
"A firearm identification card shall be valid, unless revoked or suspended, for a period of not more than 6 years from the date of issuance, except that if the cardholder applied for renewal before the card expired, the card shall remain valid after the expiration date on the card for all lawful purposes, until the application for renewal is approved or denied; "
His license has not been revoked or suspended.
 
Valid till expired? Jack.
Read Section 129D
"the person whose application was so revoked, suspended or denied shall without delay deliver or surrender to the licensing authority where the person resides all firearms, rifles, shotguns and machine guns and ammunition which the person then possesses"

I couldn't find the part where it says "or until the previously issued license expires"
 
Swat: If you never applied for renewal, meaning submitting an app, but were simply told by the LO, "We're not going to renew" why would not the existing license remain in force, absent notification of suspension/revocation, until the expiration date on the card?

I'm asking, as YAAL [laugh]
There is the danger the PD will put a note in the LTC holder's records claiming the "not going to renew" constitutes a denial, even though no application was submitted. I've seen worse logic accepted by the MA courts.

If he was not denied, but still eligible, the expired LTC reduces possession/carry without a license to a minor civil offense, which is why PDs are trained to maintain perpetual records of any denial so that persons denied will be deprived of that protection.
 
Read Section 129D
"the person whose application was so revoked, suspended or denied shall without delay deliver or surrender to the licensing authority where the person resides all firearms, rifles, shotguns and machine guns and ammunition which the person then possesses"

I couldn't find the part where it says "or until the previously issued license expires"

Thanks for noting that quirk. [rolleyes] (not at you).
 
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