Butt stocks for boltgun - * DMR * F-CLASS* PMR * - SAVAGE 10BA

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*title updated*

I've had my 10BA stealth for a few years and have grown tired of the "stock" butt stock... it's a FAB Defense GL-Shock buttstock with an adjustable cheek piece (riser).

I'm considering the Luth-ar mba-3, and am looking for input from the NES braintrust.

Want to keep the 6-pos adjustable part, which is why I'm looking at the mba-3, not the Mba-1.

Also pros/cons of monopod vs. Bag riser?
Looking to improve my groups at distances from the bench.
Am also looking into upgrading the grip, for better control.

Thanks.
ETA:
References:
DMR: Designated Makmanship Rifle
F-class: Good read on F-Class
PMR: Production Marksmanship Rifle

Pic for reference:

20170708_123348.jpg
 
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I also have that same rifle and the buttstock is definitely not ideal. The luth-AR or magpul seem to be popular, but I'm leaning towards the Luth-AR for when I upgrade.

I can never seem to get completely comfortable behind the "stock" stock.
 
Vertical stringing is my main concern, and my personal comfort.
1st group POA was @ bullseye, 2nd group POA was bottom left corner of orange block. @ 100 yards.
Been going out to 200 - max of my club. This rifle is capable of much longer distance, but THIS stock may wind up on an AR.

20170707_150334.jpg
 
What about an XLR buttstock

If you want a bag rider

I also like the Ergo Vertical grip.
XLR sells it too, but it’s available from several sites
 
What about an XLR buttstock

If you want a bag rider

I also like the Ergo Vertical grip.
XLR sells it too, but it’s available from several sites
I have that stock on bergara, with a folding adapter. Very nice part. Bag rider is a must.
Compliment it with those bags:
Protektor Model Rabbit Ear Rear Bag with Hard Bottom Amazon product ASIN B006MFYQ5CView: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006MFYQ5C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_930A2WGK81GQMBVQ8R4P

Protektor Model Front Bag Amazon product ASIN B006MGRMHAView: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006MGRMHA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_HCGB3QBH9125F2QP8NDK
 
Have you tried shooting groups with the rifle in lead sled or something similar?

No.
All from bipod & shoulder, or bipod & sandbags that are at the range.

Trying to get as much shooter skill involved. Haven't got into actual competition, but not ruling it out either.
Guess that leans me towards F-T/R?

@LuvDog , @paul73 Thanks. Know how much the TR-2 Is going for? Currently "Sold out" on their website.

Looks cleaner than the MBA-3. Riser solid?
 
No.
All from bipod & shoulder, or bipod & sandbags that are at the range.

Trying to get as much shooter skill involved. Haven't got into actual competition, but not ruling it out either.
Guess that leans me towards F-T/R?

@LuvDog , @paul73 Thanks. Know how much the TR-2 Is going for? Currently "Sold out" on their website.

Looks cleaner than the MBA-3. Riser solid?
i got mine with an XLR element chassis that came on bergara.

depending upon how much your rifle jumps up at the shot - there are 2 ways of thought - some do prefer by far to shoot not from the bipod, but from sand bags.
something like that, only more decent
Amazon product ASIN B08397Z6PGView: https://www.amazon.com/Shooting-sandbag-Predator-Zeroing-Tactical/dp/B08397Z6PG


i did not find it to work well for me. so i use a good bipod -
with area 419 hawk hill talons

and the technique is to keep shoulder on the stock to push into bipod keeping it preloaded forward (not smashed) for a sufficient amount to prevent most movements.
left hand controls - squeezes or slides the bag under the bag rider on the stock to control the height.

ymmv.
 
*title updated*

I've had my 10BA stealth for a few years and have grown tired of the "stock" butt stock... it's a FAB Defense GL-Shock buttstock with an adjustable cheek piece (riser).

I'm considering the Luth-ar mba-3, and am looking for input from the NES braintrust.

Want to keep the 6-pos adjustable part, which is why I'm looking at the mba-3, not the Mba-1.

Also pros/cons of monopod vs. Bag riser?
Looking to improve my groups at distances from the bench.
Am also looking into upgrading the grip, for better control.

Thanks.
ETA:
References:
DMR: Designated Makmanship Rifle
F-class: Good read on F-Class
PMR: Production Marksmanship Rifle

Pic for reference:

View attachment 522734
Is it me or is that scope really high?
What is it you dont like about current stock?
The rear little mono dildo seems silly to me , I think you will get more use and flexibility from a rear bag.
Maybe put more money into a better bipod.
All this with keeping with in any limitations of any rule based shooting you will do?
 
Vertical stringing is my main concern, and my personal comfort.
1st group POA was @ bullseye, 2nd group POA was bottom left corner of orange block. @ 100 yards.
Been going out to 200 - max of my club. This rifle is capable of much longer distance, but THIS stock may wind up on an AR.

View attachment 522735
My guess is the Vertical String is all you.
Both groups are pretty much 1” off to the right of your aim.
My thinking is “stock” fit to the rifle will cause inconsistencies all over .
 
Did you use ammo other than Aguila and did you let someone else shoot to see if they get better results?
 
Is it me or is that scope really high?
it is, but, it is a less of a priority, i would think. eventually it would be reasonable to set it on lowest rings there. and move bipod mount a bit closer, appx to the live where the scope ends. mine has it a bit too close now i think, may be should be 2-3 inches out, but it works and i like it like that.
as of stock - current one he got has no proper rider at the base, and it is not really usable. a flat xlr bag rider makes a ton of the difference.bergara2.jpg
 
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it is, but, it is a less of a priority, i would think. eventually it would be reasonable to set it on lowest rings there. and move bipod mount a bit closer, appx to the live where the scope ends. mine has it a bit too close now i think, may be should be 2-3 inches out, but it works and i like it like that.
as of stock - current one he got has no proper rider at the base, and it is not really usable. a flat xlr bag rider makes a ton of the difference.View attachment 523547
I like to get low and snug , full weight of my knoggin on the comb.
Do what feels comfortable
Personally I would hang a 10 or 20 1” dot target and shoot 1 shot at each Dot . See if your impacts are consistent. If your still only drifting Vertical
Work on trigger,breathing , set up

are you shooting from bench or prone

flip your bipod around so you can lean into it a bit. Looks backwards to me in the pic?
Make sure everything that should be tight is. Recheck mount/ring torque , check your stock to action hardware. Sometimes different torque specs can change performance
I play mostly with wood stocks and mauser type actions and im running around 35-45inlbs
 
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I like to get low and snug , full weight of my knoggin on the comb.
Do what feels comfortable
Personally I would hang a 10 or 20 1” dot target and shoot 1 shot at each Dot . See if your impacts are consistent. If your still only drifting Vertical
Work on trigger,breathing , set up

are you shooting from bench or prone

flip your bipod around so you can lean into it a bit. Looks backwards to me in the pic?
Make sure everything that should be tight is. Recheck mount/ring torque , check your stock to action hardware. Sometimes different torque specs can change performance
I play mostly with wood stocks and mauser type actions and im running around 35-45inlbs

Hmm. Will have to look at my bipod setup, but do lean into it for my shots.

As you & @paul73 Said... lower rings wouldn't hurt, but aren't my root cause. Rabbit rear bag in my shopping cart along with new stock, and bag rider... pricing out a dedicated pelican case for it to. You know - because why not? I'm 39 & don't have kids and I gotta spend some money on myself once in awhile!

Appreciate the honest feedback!

Certainly not a "budget " gun, but reasonable for its class.
 
Did you use ammo other than Aguila and did you let someone else shoot to see if they get better results?
Can't make out the mfg. Of ammo that I used that day... it was factory non-match, Can't remember weight. Need to do better documentation of that.

Long story short, have shot different ammo, with different results (spread).

99.9% of time, shooting factory ammo. Have everything i needed for reloading the 308 pill. As I refine my rig, this will likely change to mostly hand loaded.

Last weekend did a lot of practice with steel case ammo, just to get some trigger time.
 
Hmm. Will have to look at my bipod setup, but do lean into it for my shots.

As you & @paul73 Said... lower rings wouldn't hurt, but aren't my root cause. Rabbit rear bag in my shopping cart along with new stock, and bag rider... pricing out a dedicated pelican case for it to. You know - because why not? I'm 39 & don't have kids and I gotta spend some money on myself once in awhile!

Appreciate the honest feedback!

Certainly not a "budget " gun, but reasonable for its class.
39 and no kids, what would I have?
Man the choices
 
I like to get low and snug , full weight of my knoggin on the comb.
Do what feels comfortable
Personally I would hang a 10 or 20 1” dot target and shoot 1 shot at each Dot . See if your impacts are consistent. If your still only drifting Vertical
Work on trigger,breathing , set up

are you shooting from bench or prone

flip your bipod around so you can lean into it a bit. Looks backwards to me in the pic?
Make sure everything that should be tight is. Recheck mount/ring torque , check your stock to action hardware. Sometimes different torque specs can change performance
I play mostly with wood stocks and mauser type actions and im running around 35-45inlbs
If you’re looking at getting into F Class, first thing I would do is get a decent shooting mat with pockets/webbing to preload your bipod. I use this: MidwayUSA Pro Series Competition Shooting Mat Olive Drab inexpensive, but it works fine for me.

As @paul73 and @mac1911 have said, your scope does look high relative to you check rest. The way I was taught to setup my scope/check rest was to set the rifle in the prone position and then lie down and rest your check (literally rest your head, relax your neck muscles) on your check rest with your eyes closed. Get comfortable, make sure you’re relaxed and then open your eyes. If you’re lined up with your scope, you check rest/scope height is correct. If not either adjust the check rest (easiest) or the scope height (usually will require new mount/rings). The point is you don’t want to have to exert any muscles to line up with your scope. They key to long range shooting is absolute consistency. If you have to hold your head to line up with your scope it’s much harder to get a consistent check weld than if you can just naturally rest your head on the check rest. Pretty much everything you want to do on a long range gun is to make it easier to be consistent from shot to shot.

My Bergara in 6.5 CM is very similar to the one @paul73 has. Mine has a PDC Custom chassis which includes a folding stock, an adjustable thumb rest and a barricade stop (the thing pinned to the chassis just in front of the magazine). The thumb rest helps ensure your grip is the same from shot to shot and the barricade stop is because the chassis doesn’t have a mag well so you want something to protect your magazine if you are firing from a barricade position (you rest the gun on the barricade, not the bipod, and without the stop you could push the gun forward and ram the mag against the barricade). For a detailed list of the components and a picture see my post: Ruger Precision Rifle V/S Tikka T3X TACT A1.

The MSRP of this setup back in 2019 was $6,207.93, but with patience and shopping sales I was able to build it for $4,506.02. Still a lot.

One thing I will admit, I also have a Sako A7 Roughtech Range with a Leupold VX-6 3-18X50 Firedot that all in was $2,200.00. While, given their respective QA targets that were included with the rifles, the Bergara should shoot rings around the Sako, I shoot them both about as (in)accurately. Demonstrating once again it’s not the gun as much as the shooter.
 
I like to get low and snug , full weight of my knoggin on the comb.
Do what feels comfortable
Personally I would hang a 10 or 20 1” dot target and shoot 1 shot at each Dot . See if your impacts are consistent. If your still only drifting Vertical
Work on trigger,breathing , set up

are you shooting from bench or prone

flip your bipod around so you can lean into it a bit. Looks backwards to me in the pic?
Make sure everything that should be tight is. Recheck mount/ring torque , check your stock to action hardware. Sometimes different torque specs can change performance
I play mostly with wood stocks and mauser type actions and im running around 35-45inlbs
Bipod does look backwards.
 
Fix your bipod and get yourself a nice bag, and work on your recoil management. Get square with your rifle. Don't load your bipod too much. That will square away your stringing, provided your scope isn't loose.

High rings are fine, as long as you have consistent head/cheek placement. I started using high rings and find it more comfortable.


 
Fix your bipod and get yourself a nice bag, and work on your recoil management. Get square with your rifle. Don't load your bipod too much. That will square away your stringing, provided your scope isn't loose.

High rings are fine, as long as you have consistent head/cheek placement. I started using high rings and find it more comfortable.


Comfort is key
My cheek to eyeball distance is short and I could use adjustable comb on almost any rifle even with irons!
 
Comfort is key
My cheek to eyeball distance is short and I could use adjustable comb on almost any rifle even with irons!
I have to wear glasses now. I find high rings help out lining everything up. Being more comfortable was an added bonus. For years, I was taught, lower is better. I'm questioning that whole theory now.

Adjustable comb is the way. I was using pipe insulation, wood blocks, all sorts of homemade garbage.
 
I'm questioning that whole theory now.
here is why.
.223 curves on 2", 1" and 0.8" of scope height - you generally want to shoot flatter between near and zero.
also, in real life complications your rifle is never shooting perfectly straight, bullet goes either left or right depending upon barrel and twist.
you compensate for that while zeroing and setting the scope. the higher it sits, the more deviation you will get if you do not have rifle aligned perfectly vertical at the next shot. etc.
the rule of thumb is to have optical axis of the scope as close as possible to the barrel, while you still see through the scope fine with no issues.
.223 curves.jpg
 
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FYI, the BEST advise I’ve seen in getting lined up and comfortable behind a stock/scope is by Ryan Cleckner. In YouTube videos of his own and in conjunction with the Warrior Poet Society, or in print by his own book ‘Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner’s Guide to Precision Rifle Shooting’.

He really writes and conveys the message is an easy to understand manner! For stocks, I myself use the Luth-AR stock on precision ARs and a McMillian A5 w/ adjustable cheek piece on bolt guns.
 
here is why.
.223 curves on 2", 1" and 0.8" of scope height - you generally want to shoot flatter between near and zero.
also, in real life complications your rifle is never shooting perfectly straight, bullet goes either left or right depending upon barrel and twist.
you compensate for that while zeroing and setting the scope. the higher it sits, the more deviation you will get if you do not have rifle aligned perfectly vertical at the next shot. etc.
the rule of thumb is to have optical axis of the scope as close as possible to the barrel, while you still see through the scope fine with no issues.
View attachment 530102
I remember all my classes as to the why, but trying to get the scope as low as possible is just outdated. Fit the rifle to the shooter (without the optic), then fit the optic to the eye. Cheek height should drive scope height. The scope ends up where ever it ends up. The more square the man is with the rifle, the better the recoil management. Less neck and eye fatigue because of a more upright posture.
 
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