Bump Firing Device. Legal?

EddieCoyle

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Anybody here ever bump fire? For those of you that are not familiar with this technique, bump firing allows you to use a gun's recoil to simulate full-auto fire with a semi auto. Here's a brief description (for a right-handed shooter):

Bump firing is done from the hip. It's easier with a sling, but can be done without one too. Put your right thumb through the trigger guard and hook it onto your belt loop. Place your left hand on the forestock. Try to keep your right thumb "locked" to your side. Fire the gun by pulling forward with your left hand. Try to apply constant forward pressure with your left arm. When the gun fires, the recoil resets the trigger, but since you're applying constant forward pressure with your left arm, the gun fires again immediately, and again, and again, etc. This works with almost any medium-recoil semi auto. I've done it with an AR, AK, M1 Carbine, and Mini 14. I've heard of people doing it with an M1 Garand and even a 10/22. I tried it with my Saiga 12 gauge but tore my belt loop off. It's a waste of ammo, but it's also a lot of fun.

Here's the problem with bump firing: You can't hit anything.

Anyway, to get to my point...

There's a company in Oregon that makes a device called the Akins Accellerator. Here's their website (watch the video [shocked] ).
http://www.firefaster.com

Their product is a replacement stock for the 10/22 that instead of hard mounting, the barreled action is connected to the stock via spring-loaded guide rods. There's also "finger stops" built into the stock on either side of the trigger guard, these keep your finger off the trigger long enough so that it resets. This product basically simulates bump firing, but from the shoulder so you can aim.

I emailed the company to ask if it was legal in Mass. Here's their reply:
As far as we are aware the Accelerator(TM) is legal in Massachusetts.

It is our understanding that Mass. has an assault weapon ban law. We
don't know the details of it, or how exactly it applies to your situation.
You may be able have a fixed stock variant there. The folding version
would be questionable or illegal. The assault weapon ban also speaks
to certain high cap magazines. Akins Group Inc. can't speak to the
exact laws in Massachusetts. Because Akins Group Inc. can't research
the laws and amendments to those laws in all 50 states it is your
responsibility to ensure that you are in compliance with the laws of
your state.

Minnesota and California clearly prohibit the possession of simulated
full auto devices.

Thanks for your interest in the Akins Accelerator(TM),

Dorothy Conway
Akins Group Inc.
P.O. Box 430
Cornelius OR 97113
503-359-1356
www.firefaster.com

Could this really be legal here? I'd've bought one already but they're $1000 (and I don't have a 10/22 right now). If so, this is the coolest thing since sex.
 
So long as one pull of the trigger results in one shot fired, this surprisingly expensive gunstock mechanism is legal in MA under both state and federal law.

Whether it is worth the money they are asking may be another question entirely. (grin)
 
Cross-X said:
So long as one pull of the trigger results in one shot fired, this surprisingly expensive gunstock mechanism is legal in MA under both state and federal law.

Even if it is the gun itself that is pulling the trigger and not the operator?
 
If you got that you would be pan handling outside of city hospital with the rest of the bums to feed your habit.
 
MA definition...


“Machine gun”, a weapon of any description, by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, from which a number of shots or bullets may be rapidly or automatically discharged by one continuous activation of the trigger, including a submachine gun.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-121.htm

Now you need to find someone willing to ship pre-ban +10 mags to MA and get ready to rock and roll. [smile]
 
I would like to try bump firing some day. Don't have a safe place to do it so I haven't tried. Sounds like an expensive and inaccurate (but fun!) way to burn ammo :-)
 
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Figure though if you were to get a gun to simulate full auto with bump firing, what beter and cheaper than a 22? I burn through 30 rounds of 7.62x39 in about a second and a half when I bump fire my AK. If I paid the $5 a box price some shops charge, that'd be $7.50 gone in under 2 seconds.
The money you'd save buying the $10 Wal Mart bulk ammo boxes of 22 lr could make the kit pay for itself in the long run. [laugh]
 
I had spent a couple of hours at the range firing .223, shotgun slugs, pistol, and someone sat down and started bump-firing an AK. After spending all morning doing everything I could to hit little tiny targets at 50 and 100 yards, I honestly felt a little hurt by how inaccurate it was.
 
Here's one for you all:

Most of the ranges I frequent prohibit "automatic" weapons on both the indoor and outdoor ranges. Since this is not TECHNICALLY an automatic weapon, would there still be a "violation"? I know that it would be up to each individual range director, but I pose the quetion more fo this reason:

"If it looks like a rose, and smells like a rose, then it must be..."

I would imagine that some of the reasons why full auto fire is banned at most ranges is due to neighbor complaints, town and/or police regulations and possibly insurance stipulations. Sine this device "simulates" auto fire (therefore making it legal BATFE-wise), but still has all of the physical characteristics of full auto (sound, rate-of-fire, amount of lead downrange, etc.) Would it still be considered inappropriate for ranges that do not allow full auto fire, and possibly even attract LEO attention under some noise or "rapid fire" prohibition?

I know it's kind of a large open-ended question, but I am strongly considering buying one of these, and with the general lack of knowledge by the general public (pro-gun and otherwise) on this type of product, the last thing I want to do is throw away 1100.00 because I can't find a place to shoot it, or worse yet get jammed up on some bizarre noise or rate of fire issue.

Thanks!
 
IU vaguely remember a device that you attached to the firearm and cranked a handle and it would rapidfire any semi-auto. I thought those were illegal in this state. If what I'm talking about is i can't imagine that this device wouldn't be....

I would do some serious homework beyond this forum before I spent that kind of money....

It does sound fun though....
 
Many ranges have a rule: No Rapid Fire. Whatever that means. I'd have to think that bumping would qualify.
 
MRA prohibits rapid fire, all shots must be on target, this is on the indoor Loeb range. No specific amount of time is specified but it is understood that this means as fast as you can keep it on paper. I have never heard of anyone shooting rapidly on paper being given any flak. The rules on outdoor ranges are stricter as they aren't armored as well as Loeb.

One Sunday afternoon after a bowling pin shoot, several directors and action shooting regulars were present when someone was bump firing a UMP-45 without any second glances. He was putting every shot into the middle of the berm 25 yards away. The fact that they knew him may also have been important.

Another FA experience at MRA, a gentleman whose gun handling skills had always been somewhat suspect was shooting a mauser broomhandle that was going full auto on him. He was dumping whole clips and putting rounds into the ceiling and floor. A director saw this and told him to pack it up.

MRA allows licensed individuals to shoot full auto on Loeb if they are cleared by the Directors. They get a "Special Range Use" card which they are required to have with them and produce on request. The list of SRU holders is also kept in the main office. I had the misfortune of trying to clean several guns while someone was hammering away with an MP5, it was very noisy.
 
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The other problem with the Aikens thing is some "goody two shoes dweeb"
type may think that you have a "machinegun" and call the cops on you
over it. (yes, technically speaking, it isn't, but at 600+ rpm, it sounds like
one. ) The only consolation is that .22 LR is relatively quiet compared to
a centerfire machinegun.

-Mike
 
The other problem with the Aikens thing is some "goody two shoes dweeb"
type may think that you have a "machinegun" and call the cops on you
over it. (yes, technically speaking, it isn't, but at 600+ rpm, it sounds like
one. ) The only consolation is that .22 LR is relatively quiet compared to
a centerfire machinegun.

-Mike


This is what is keeping me from giving it a shot (pun intended). I'd be worried about the police coming down and arresting me for having it. There are few LEO's that know the gun laws well enough to know that this is legal.

One time, I was bump firing an AK at my club's range when my cell phone rang. I'd just finished firing my first 20-round magazine. The call was from my neighbor who'd heard a report on her scanner about somebody firing a machine gun. I packed up and left the range.
 
This is what is keeping me from giving it a shot (pun intended). I'd be worried about the police coming down and arresting me for having it. There are few LEO's that know the gun laws well enough to know that this is legal.

One time, I was bump firing an AK at my club's range when my cell phone rang. I'd just finished firing my first 20-round magazine. The call was from my neighbor who'd heard a report on her scanner about somebody firing a machine gun. I packed up and left the range.

And, in doing so you have left the local LE ignorant for another day. Stand your ground and explain what you were doing. Demonstrate if they are really thick headed. You have been intimidated into timidity and are being controlled completely by that ignorant a**h*** that made the call. You complied fully to their wishes and fears and they think now that they did the right thing since the shooting(and your fun) stopped.

The choice is clear.....do what you will or what others will you to do.

By leaving the range, you did what that fool that called the cops willed you to do and supported their delusional thinking.
 
simulated full auto

That wouldn't change the possibility of an arrest by an uninformed police officer. Charges would of course be dropped once the gun is examined and the firearm found to be legal. Nevertheless, an "illegal possesion of a machine gun" arrest record would remain on file to be explained (at LTC renewals ect ect) over and over again for the rest of your life. Something to think about.[thinking]
 
Yes, as a matter of fact some LEOs have been recently questioning these devices. They are "convinced that they can't possibly be legal in MA"!!

Thus I can easily foresee someone being wrongfully arrested for possession of these devices. Even winning a fat settlement for an illegal arrest won't make up for the fact that the "arrest record" will haunt you for the rest of your life . . . on every job application, LTC renewal, etc.
 
Thus I can easily foresee someone being wrongfully arrested for possession of these devices. Even winning a fat settlement for an illegal arrest won't make up for the fact that the "arrest record" will haunt you for the rest of your life . . . on every job application, LTC renewal, etc.
This is providing that the SJC if pushed to that point, would rule in your favor and not rule that the device when attached constitutes a machine gun.
 
And, in doing so you have left the local LE ignorant for another day. Stand your ground and explain what you were doing. Demonstrate if they are really thick headed. You have been intimidated into timidity and are being controlled completely by that ignorant a**h*** that made the call. You complied fully to their wishes and fears and they think now that they did the right thing since the shooting(and your fun) stopped.

The choice is clear.....do what you will or what others will you to do.

By leaving the range, you did what that fool that called the cops willed you to do and supported their delusional thinking.

Whoa, is the air a little thin up there on your high horse?

First of all, I am neither timid, nor easily intimidated. Have you ever heard the expression "Don't argue law on the side of the road"? Well, for reasons too complex and personal to explain here, it would have been a very bad idea for me to confront the particular LEO that was responding that day. Instead I decided to excercise the better part of valor.

As it happens, I shoot quite often with his boss and I did educate him. I educated him so well that he used up about half of my 7.62x39 stash back when it was hard to get.

Demonstrate if they are really thick headed.

This might be the single dumbest thing I've read on any forum. A twitchy rookie LEO responds to a call involving a possible machine gun and you want me to try to grab a loaded AK? Smart.

OK Mr. "Stand your ground", I'll offer you a challenge to see if you're willing to back up your rhetoric: Since there's no law specifically prohibiting open carry in Mass, why don't you strap on your favorite handgun and stroll around, say... Lexington center until some suburbanite gets scared and calls the cops. The you can explain the law to them and pay all the legal fees to get yourself out of trouble, and then forever fight for the renewal of your LTC. Are you up for it or will you "comply fully to their wishes and fears"?
 
+100 EddieCoyle


For what its worth. I used to own one of those simulated auto (crank-in-the-trigger-guard) devices. I think it was called a BMF Activator or something like that. It came in a little blue box with a mini copy of a letter from the BATF stating that it was determined to be legal. Some years back, a few friends and I were shooting 22's in a New Hampshire sand pit, when the local men in blue showed up to investigate reported "full auto small arms fire". I probably would have had my ass thrown in the pokie had I not had the box and that mini form letter. Needless to say, I had my fun that day and then promptly gave the device away. I find it better to avoid trouble than to push the envelope of the law.
 
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This is providing that the SJC if pushed to that point, would rule in your favor and not rule that the device when attached constitutes a machine gun.

You noticed that too? [wink]

I'm not about to take bets on this deal. I think that I know what Tech Branch will say, but not at all sure about MA!! [sad]
 
EddieCoyle is absolutely right!!

You don't want to screw with the guy with the gun/badge. There is no way that you won't "leave with a mark"!
 
I'm more concerned about the fact that many shots would be basically unaimed. We have major concerns at our club about rounds leaving the target area. One or two missing the berms and hitting a home would shut us down forever.

Sand pits are basically gone forever. I don't want to see the gun guns next to go.
 
That wouldn't change the possibility of an arrest by an uninformed police officer. Charges would of course be dropped once the gun is examined and the firearm found to be legal. Nevertheless, an "illegal possesion of a machine gun" arrest record would remain on file to be explained (at LTC renewals ect ect) over and over again for the rest of your life. Something to think about.[thinking]

Been doing that very thing for twenty years now. It has never hindered my application or renwal for either a class A unrestricted LTC or my machinegun license. Falsely arrested for that very reason.

Matter of fact, I make sure I write it in large lettering on my application "FALSELY ARRESTED FOR POSSESSION OF AN ILLEGAL MACHINEGUN" so that it is not missed. A false arrest is not my doing or under my control....it shows the ineptness of the police department involved and is not a blemish on my record. Its actually a badge of honor in my eyes.

I never wanted a machinegun license until they tried to f*** me.....now I wouldn't be without one.

You have "arrest" and "conviction" mixed up and it is curtailing your thinking and your fun.
 
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