Bullet Spinning in Ice.. Real or Fake?

It's conceptually possible, the thing that is keeping me skeptical about it is the fact that you have a bullet going from 1200fps to 0fps with no penetration and no deformation. That's 500 to 700 joules being released in an instant without any visible work being done. Physically it seems like a big stretch. The people who have posted their experience of picking up in-tact bullets after the ice melts, meaning there was some penetration to slow the bullet down. The kinetic energy of the bullet has to be dissipated either through penetration or deformation, or it would ricochet and continue off in one direction.

Possible, but I'm still skeptical.
 
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It's conceptually possible, the thing that is keeping me skeptical about it is the fact that you have a bullet going from 1200fps to 0fps with no penetration and no deformation. That's 500 to 700 joules being released in an instant without any visible work being done. Physically it seems like a big stretch. The people who have posted their experience of picking up in-tact bullets after the ice melts, meaning there was some penetration to slow the bullet down. The kinetic energy of the bullet has to be dissipated either through penetration or deformation, or it would ricochet and continue off in one direction.

Possible, but I'm still skeptical.

The bullets have been ricocheting, they found one a couple feet from where it first impacted the ice, and in the longer video they found it behind the camera guy.
 
With a 16" twist and 1200'/s the bullet is spinning 54,000 RPMs. That's going to take a while to slow down. [STRIKE]Still, I call B.S[/STRIKE].

Fixed it for myself.

After seeing the 2nd video I'm starting to believe. I'm sure it's not shopped and I don't see how those yahoos could rig something to spin the bullets that fast then drop them in the snow.
 
There's NO way that the bullet would stop on top of the ice and spin.

Clearly he had a device under the ice that vibrates (not spins) the bullet. The bullet was already there too (coulldn't see it in the long shot). The bullet has ZERO deformation/damage!

He most likely fired a blank.

Case closed.


It's GIZMODO, for Pete's sake, not Scientific American.
 
Clearly he had a device under the ice that vibrates (not spins) the bullet. The bullet was already there too (coulldn't see it in the long shot).

So you are telling us he somehow turned a copper plated lead bullet into a ferromagnetic object? [rofl] (I suppose you could make a realistic looking .40 cal bullet out of iron and then plate it with copper.... but that'd be an awful lot of BS for a fake bullet. )

The bullet has ZERO deformation/damage!

Another person that has no clue about what what happens to bullets when they hit different materials. [thinking]


He most likely fired a blank.

A blank? What are you smoking? So are you telling us he squibbed the ice, too? [rofl]

If this was faked it was done digitally. These ruminations of machines under the ice, miraculously ferromagnetic bullets, etc, are all crap.

-Mike
 
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Some of you guys who are calling BS based on the lack of deformation, etc obviously have never shot into snow/ice.

Below are photos of 2 different 9mm bullets, made by 2 different manufacturers, fired from 2 different guns... into the snow and ice at an IDPA match held at HSC a couple years ago. There is barely any deformation in the nose that I can see... and almost no deformation in the rear.

I'm going to call the spinning bullet real.

When you shoot at ice at an angle... say... 45 degrees... the bullet doesn't just ricochet off the ice at 45 degrees. When the bullet impacts the ice the ice chips away forming a "crater". The shape of this crater will determine where/at what angle the bullet ricochets off to. Picture shooting a bullet at an angle into a spoon lying face up on the ground. If the spoon is shallow the bullet will ricochet off at an acute angle and land no where near the spoon. But if the spoon is deep, then the bullet will most likely ricochet off at a more obtuse angle (closer to straight up) and could very well land near the spoon.

I don't think it'd be far fetched at all to find the bullet landing near the point of impact within a few meters. And at this point the bullet may still be spinning... and ShootinFoodie's explanation takes over from there.

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I don't see why magic spinning bullets are such a crazy concept. Remember, over in New York they have Heat Seeking bullets!



Mmmmmm. Shoot AND cook at the same time. Sounds like a great idea! Sometimes you DO get really hungry out in the woods!
 
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Clearly he had a device under the ice that vibrates (not spins) the bullet. The bullet was already there too (coulldn't see it in the long shot). The bullet has ZERO deformation/damage!

He most likely fired a blank.

Case closed.

I have to give this thread major props! It gives great insight into how it's possible that people believe 9/11 was an inside job or that the government is controlling the populace with chemtrails!

Occam's razor comes to mind:
When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question.

So are choices are:

a) Some guys were drinking beers shooting stuff on the ice and every once in awhile they noticed a bullet spinning and they thought it was cool so they videoed it.

b) People across the U.S. and Canada simultaneously came up with a great idea for pulling off a hoax. A hoax that doesn't even rise to the level of excitement of watching a kid make a baking soda and vinegar volcano, mind you. And these different people across North America made a device they could hide under ice that could be mounted from under the ice (cold water dry suit scuba divers to mount it from below?) that somehow made a bullet vibrate/rotate for 2+ minutes. Then they purchased blanks to complete the "lamest hoax ever" and videoed it and posted it?

Hmmm..... I'm going to go with.... a) !!!
 
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Years back a friend and I did this, but with .22's. They were copper washed, but they didn't spin as long and the didn't spin as nicely as his. They kind of spun off axis, (like jumping jacks fireworks, if you know what those are.) Basically the ice just captured them in a little crater and they would spin, and they looked like you could reload them with pretty much no deformation, at least to the human eye.
 
So you are telling us he somehow turned a copper plated lead bullet into a ferromagnetic object? [rofl] (I suppose you could make a realistic looking .40 cal bullet out of iron and then plate it with copper.... but that'd be an awful lot of BS for a fake bullet. )

...

Reread my post and look for any mention of anything related to a magnetic effect....sorry, not there. I even explicitly stated 'vibrating..not spinning'.

Anything below the ice that vibrates, would effect any object on top, regardless of its composition.

If a blank is beyone your imagination, consider an edit of the video (not possible?).

It ain't real.

Let me know when you've recreated it.
 
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Typical twist rates for a pistol would be around 1 in 10". Let's call it 1 in 12" just to simplify things. If the muzzle velocity is about 1,200fps, then the bullet is initially spinning at a rate of 12,000(rev/sec) x 60(sec/min) = 72,000rpm. It would still be spinning as fast as a high speed power drill after losing 95% of its spin. I don't see anything that would suggest that it isn't real. Not really smart, but still real.

Ken
 
Reread my post and look for any mention of anything related to a magnetic effect....sorry, not there. I even explicitly stated 'vibrating..not spinning'.

Anything below the ice that vibrates, would effect any object on top, regardless of its composition.

Not happening. The only way I can think of to do this reliably would be with a spinning magnet. Something "just vibrating" is not going to make a bullet spin like that.

If a blank is beyone your imagination, consider an edit of the video (not possible?).

No, it's not, it's just that rigging up a semiautomatic handgun to fire blanks reliably
isn't a trivial exercise. A couple of guys spoofing a youtube video aren't going to waste that much effort. Like John says, it's not that amazing.

Yes, the only plausible way this was faked is with software of some sort.

It ain't real.

Yes, a very convincing argument. [laugh]


Let me know when you've recreated it.

I'll get right on it. I've rented a Zamboni now I just have to wait for the backyard to get cold enough.

-Mike
 
Some of you guys who are calling BS based on the lack of deformation, etc obviously have never shot into snow/ice.

There is a famous story of an African professional hunter that back in the 50s got some brand new type of solid bullet and was asked by the maker to try it out and give feed back.
He shot some sort of big nasty African animal with it. (I think it was a buffalo). Anyway, the animal went down with the shot very quickly. As he was tasked with giving a review of the bullet performance. He pulled it out and brought it back home with him.
He then noticed that there was no noticeable deformation and the bullet looked good as new.
He then went on to reload that same bullet and knock down another big beast. Again, pulling the bullet, no significant deformation.
 
I'd think it was plausible, except I think the bullet should be more deformed in the rear (from lead vaporization) and the nose (from the impact). I'm also not sure if I think they should be spinning quite that fast.

I could be wrong. Count me a somewhat skeptical, but not certain.

Assume a 1/10 twist, Speer says muzzle velocity on one of there rounds is 1,210 FPS, = 14,520 Inch/sec... 1revolution ever 10 inch = 1,452 revolutions per second or 87,120 RPM... Change the twist rate a little or muzzle velocity a little to fit your round and barrel... but bottom line ... they are spinning like hell..

EDIT: Someone did the math before me.. Sorry for the dupe
 
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I think it is real.

Just like it is possible for a cigarette butt to spin for 12 seconds behind drivers side mirror in the wind from a 60 mph draft, after being tossed out the window.
 
I did the same with a 30.06 back in my not so smart youth. We shot in to ice at a steep angle at about 80ft. Thinking the bullet would blast right through.
SUPRISE, when we walked out to the hole, there was the bullet laying about 6" from where it entered.
It penetrated about 5" and just bounced out, maybe it was spinning, we were too far away to tell. It also appeared in unfired condition. weird
 
I could see it being real, all you have to do is compare it to similar phenomena like ice skates, ice skates don't actually touch the ice when moving, they're gliding on a thin sheen of water produced by the friction of sliding over the ice, same could apply here.

You have a metallic object heated due to the combustion created to propel it hitting solid ice and then melting it in much the same way as an ice skate to allow it to keep spinning.

My only issue is ricochet which could possibly be minimized but having a softer packed snow there to prevent that, but I'm not a physicist [wink]

I believe that ice skates do touch the ice while moving. The blades are hollow ground so that there is an edge on each side with a hollow depression in the center. The center may ride on a cushion of water, but the sharp edges will contact the ice; this is what gives the blades directional stability, i.e. keeps them going straight.
 
I think it's real.....

And the discussions of RPM's are spot on.

It's one of the reasons you can't shoot cast lead bullets out of a 5.56 cartridge in a 1:7 or 1:9 AR-15 rifle, at full speed. It would spin into shrapnel at the moment that it left the muzzle of the barrel. Spins so fast that it would pull itself apart. A longer twist rate bolt action would work. And, no, I'm not talking about .22 LR ammo. I mean full bore 5.56 cases, fully loaded.

Bullets spin very very fast through the air. Most people don't realize that.

Anyways, I think it's very real.

I have a .40 (Jim let me borrow it! hahaha) and will also try it this winter.

Just don't shoot the ice at a low angle. That will just skip the bullet into another town.
 
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