Bullet Casting 101

Got the files but in total it's like 500 pages IIRC..... I will pdf it and see if I can get it to a size that I can send..... If not, can burn you a disk and drop it in the mail....[wink]
 
Got the files but in total it's like 500 pages IIRC..... I will pdf it and see if I can get it to a size that I can send..... If not, can burn you a disk and drop it in the mail....[wink]
If you are able to get it to the right size any chance you could send it to me so I could burn it to a disc ? I think I pretty much know the basics but would love to learn more so I'll make less mistakes when I actually start casting myself.
 
If you are able to get it to the right size any chance you could send it to me so I could burn it to a disc ? I think I pretty much know the basics but would love to learn more so I'll make less mistakes when I actually start casting myself.

Will do! Have found it to be a tremendous resource and well worth spending some time reading through.....[wink]
 
Ok, the files are just under 7 megs zipped which I am not sure will make it through so have broken them up into 4 smaller zipped files which max out at a bit over 2.5 megs.... These should get through so will email them out this morning.... If one or more don't make it then let me know and I'll come up with a "plan B"....[wink]

PM me your email address if you would like a copy.....[smile]
 
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Lowdown on Lead Fouling

Another great find over on Cast Boolits.....[wink]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=72141
The Lowdown On Lead Fouling
By Allan Jones

Lead fouling used to make me crazy. Fortunately, a part of my brain retained some degree of sanity and worked toward understanding the causes. Most of this column covers leading in handguns, specifically revolvers. First, let me establish some definitions. I'm not talking about the thin wash of lead that readily yields to a good bore brush in normal cleaning. Rather, it's the clumps of lead that destroy accuracy, resist removal, and, in extreme cases, damage the firearm that concern me.

ST_lowdownleadfoul_201002-A.jpg


There's More Than One Kind
Most of us associate leading with excessive velocity, aggravated by a too-soft lead alloy and/or insufficient or ineffective lubrication. There is another kind that probably plagues more revolver shooters--gas blow-by.

When I was new to this reloading game, the popular literature covered only the first cause. Common sense says that velocity leading should get worse as the bullet speeds up in the gun barrel. After all, maximum velocity is usually reached at the muzzle. Therefore, I figured that leading should be light to nonexistent at the breech end of the barrel and grow heavier toward the muzzle, reflecting an accelerating bullet.


That's fine, but the leading I experienced early on with a particular .45 Colt-caliber revolver was heaviest at the breech end of the barrel and extended onto the back of the barrel, the frame, and the cylinder face. This was happening even with hard-cast bullets, and I'd tried a variety of good lubricants. In no way did that fit the logical pattern of velocity leading. Nothing helped, not even changing to gascheck bullets; something else was afoot.

It became apparent that lead-laden gas escaped around the bullet early in the firing cycle and carried its load to areas close to the exit hole in the cylinder. I had some Ideal No. 45468 bullets (that's a lightweight .45-caliber bullet with a dimple in the base). They were soft-cast for a cap-and-ball revolver, but I loaded some in .45 Colt and tried a charge of Unique that, with most other lead bullets, causes leading. Guess what? There was very little leading.

The problem was one of bullet fit--in this case, the fit of the bullet in the revolver's chamber throat. In further experimenting with flat-base bullets, I found I could often keep the load the same and use a softer alloy and the leading lessened. The soft bullet was "slugging up" in the chamber throat and providing a better gas seal.

Low-pressure revolver loads can cause serious blow-by leading. Once, while taking calls on the Speer tech lines, a caller said that .38 Special hollowbase wadcutters were leading up the throats and the back of the barrel of his S&W K-38. I asked if he was using 2.4 grains of Bullseye, and there was a long silence. Finally, he said he was using that exact charge. I explained that I'd had the same experience, and it went away when I increased the charge weight to 2.7 grains. The 2.4-grain load did not produce enough pressure to expand the wadcutter's skirt, whereas 2.7 grains seemed to be the sweet spot for sufficient pressure without too much velocity and recoil. A week later he called back to say that he'd tried the heavier charge and his old K-38 was shooting very well with no serious leading, in spite of his initial skepticism of my advise.

It All Comes Down To Fit
The hollow- or dished-base bullet helps fill up the chamber throat but must not be too hard an alloy. However, most lead bullets have flat bases that require more pressure to expand and keep the gas behind the bullet. At that point, it all comes down to fit.



Good lead bullet performance depends on the chamber throats not being too much larger than the barrel's groove diameter. I have a revolver in .45 Colt that came with a 0.4525-inch groove diameter, but the chamber throats were closer to 0.457 inch. It leaded badly with loads that shot fine in other revolvers. The gunmaker replaced the original cylinder with one with chamber throats that were only 0.0005 inch larger than the groove diameter. This is now my most accurate revolver, and I can drive soft lead bullets fast enough to produce true velocity leading without any of the previous lead build-up at the breech end.

It's rare to find that tight a fit outside of a custom model, but I've found that if chamber throats are no more than 0.002 inch over groove diameter, you will get quite decent accuracy and minimal leading. This small difference can be made up with bullet diameter and alloy choices.

When sizing cast lead bullets, make them as large as possible without bulging the case to the point where it won't chamber. I size .38 Spl. bullets at 0.359 inch, and they shoot fine in all my revolvers, including a couple of older Colts whose groove diameters are closer to 0.355 inch. I find that 0.430-inch sizing works well in all my .44 Specials and Magnums, none of which have throats larger than 0.431 inch. The beloved .45 Colt still gets 0.454-inch cast bullets.


The important issue here is to know your chamber throat diameters. A good pair of dial calipers will tell you all you need to know.

I also shoot lead in most of my semiautomatic pistols. I bought some quality hard-cast 9mm Luger bullets that were sized 0.3545 inch. These shot just over an inch at 20 yards from my 9mm Colt Government Model but keyholed and badly fouled in a Browning Hi-Power. Let's see--good alloy, good lube, and great accuracy in another pistol. What's left? Barrel diameter. The Colt measured 0.354 inch, and the Hi-Power was just over 0.357 inch. That's a recipe for gas leaks. I measured bores on other 9mm pistols and found the larger diameter to be rather common--call it prevalent. Could that be why we hear so many tales about cast bullets not working in the 9mm Luger?

The worst leading I saw in .45 Auto was in a friend's Colt. He had processed several hundred cast-bullet loads through an improperly adjusted taper-crimp die, and the case walls squeezed all the bullets, originally 0.452 inch, to a gas-leaking 0.447 inch.

A Big "No-No"
How many times have you thought it easier to shoot the lead out with a jacketed bullet? Well, don't even think about it. In extreme cases, this can cause irreparable damage. I've seen revolver barrel throats deformed and thin-walled barrels bulged. Either means a new barrel.

Here's a tip for dealing with heavy leading once it occurs: Don't rush. Wipe off the outside of the firearm and simply use a clean, dry brush on the leaded bore to rough up the lead. Set the gun aside for a few days before trying to remove the deposits. Lead tends to oxidize rapidly to a dark gray powder; the "time out" period can convert a fair amount of the lead to the oxide form, making cleaning easier.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunit...adfoul_201002/
 
Bob,

Thanks for sending the files, I'm still reading. :)

The preface mentions that the files include some excel worksheet files. I didn't see any in the .zip files you sent. Are these included or are they buried in the .PDF documents somwhere (if you know)?

Thanks again for sending these along.
 
My bad.... Forgot those.... [sad2]

Will send you another zip file including them to all who originally requested copies......[wink]

Bob,

Thanks for sending the files, I'm still reading. :)

The preface mentions that the files include some excel worksheet files. I didn't see any in the .zip files you sent. Are these included or are they buried in the .PDF documents somwhere (if you know)?

Thanks again for sending these along.
 
Propane cooker on sale at Bass Pro $29.94

Our most popular fryer offers up great food at a great value. Includes a heavy-duty 10-1/2 quart aluminum fry pot with basket, 18" tripod stand, regulator with hose, and a 5" deep-fry thermometer. Aluminum construction.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_10205245____SearchResults

Just the thing for smelting down your lead..... Be aware thought that you will need to get a heavy duty cast iron or stainless steel pot/dutch oven if using this for smelting.... The aluminum pot that comes with this is not recommended for smelting as it could structurally fail when loaded with something as heavy as lead....[wink]

This is what I am currently using:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44705

$19 and with the 20% off coupon would be roughly $16.... [smile]
 
these are getting sized to .358 for a couple of .357 revolvers. im tempted to put a couple of LRmag primers in teh HP (yes, its big enough)
 
new mold happiness :)

360180WFNGCHP.jpg


(note: not sized, lubed, or gaschecked yet)

Sweet! Nice looking HP!

What hardness are you casting for your hollow points and how fast are you pushing it? I have traditionally been casting hard cast up to now but am looking to soften up quite a bit for my hollow points to get good expansion.... Typically I am under 1200 fps (except the S&W500 380 SP which I plan to continue to hard cast and GC which clocks in around 1700fps).... Most of what I have culled so far for HP PB in this range seems to indicate 12-14 BHN to give a reasonable expansion while minimizing the chance for leading but would appreciate any insight from your experience...
 
dunno. havent shot any of these yet, nor have i loaded any of my GC'd boolits. i also dont have a hardness tested. they typically get the "will it scratch by a fingernail" test before the ingot goes into the pot.

1700fps on the SP? psh. wuss! my buddy has his 700gr logs going something like 1490! (now THATS a cannon). i bet it'd be nearing EC's nuclear .500 loads.
 
dunno. havent shot any of these yet, nor have i loaded any of my GC'd boolits. i also dont have a hardness tested. they typically get the "will it scratch by a fingernail" test before the ingot goes into the pot.

1700fps on the SP? psh. wuss! my buddy has his 700gr logs going something like 1490! (now THATS a cannon). i bet it'd be nearing EC's nuclear .500 loads.

Ouch! Actually this is timely since Marcus5Aurelius is also complaining that our loads for the 500 are too light.... Am currently loading RR 700 grainers over 24.0gr H110 and am seeing an average of 1031 fps.... Did the original load development last summer but now they seem significantly lighter.... Not sure if we are just getting used to the gun or are seeing less oomph due to the cold.... RR advertises that I can go to a max of 26.5 H110 for an advertised MV around 1223fps.... Have RO duty this weekend so will have to load some up to give it a try....
 
Jasper is correct. I have the same 700 grain bullets from the same place and he sent along load data. Here's the data for the 700 grain. 26.5 H110=1223 fps, 27.5 WW296=1264fps, 27 Lilgun=1340fps and 25 WC820=1100fps. These are his max loads and were worked up in an 8 3/8" and a 10 1/2". I'd contact him and ask for a copy of his data.
 
All I can say is wow, that really is bad.... Thankfully have not yet had to deal with leading in any of my guns....

BTW, got my #503 Cramer mould in and it's a beauty.... Cast a bunch of nice 44 hollow points with it and will have some for you the next time I see you at the range...

As Mark posted earlier, the .502 Cramer is pretty sweet for the S&W500.... Now I really understand when they talk about it being a flying ashtray.....[smile]

Check out this thread over on castboolits. Go to post six.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=77402
 
Interesting development from smelting a fair amount of range lead a few weeks ago..... Bought the "Bass Pro" fish fry set up and another dutch oven (harbor freight) so I would have 2 smelting setups.... Most of the time I've found in smelting is waiting for everything to melt so figured I could stagger the pots and get everything smelted in roughly half the time... The interesting development was that the "Bass Pro" pot had a great deal of trouble melting the lead while my previous burner worked relatively quick.... Turns out that the previous burner was a "high pressure" burner (10 psi regulator) while the bass pro was only 5 psi....

My recommendation is that if you are looking into buying a smelting burner you might consider this one....

http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic...1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1267709432&sr=8-1

Just under $40 and has free shipping.... It will save you a ton of time when smelting....
 
All I can say is wow, that really is bad.... Thankfully have not yet had to deal with leading in any of my guns....

BTW, got my #503 Cramer mould in and it's a beauty.... Cast a bunch of nice 44 hollow points with it and will have some for you the next time I see you at the range...

As Mark posted earlier, the .502 Cramer is pretty sweet for the S&W500.... Now I really understand when they talk about it being a flying ashtray.....[smile]

When do you have RO duty this month? I just cast around 5-600 of the .430 245gr Keith SWC. They dropped around .432-.433 but they were a bear to size & lube. I'm
guessing that there is so much surface area on the bands that this was the case. I had to run a lubed boolit through the die every 3-4 unlubed. I'll bring some of these to
swap with you. These are water dropped so the BNH is up there (22-23).

If I were you I would return the stove you bought to Bass Pro and tell them that it couldn't do the job you wanted and get your money back. They seem to be pretty good about those things.
 
I have RO duty the 4th Saturday (on the 27th).... We will be on summer hours (just changed over) so my shift will be from 3PM to dusk.... I hear you on the sizing.... I am currently casting 50/50 WW/Range Lead water dropped for all of my HP rounds (including the S&W500) and I usually size right after casting to take advantage of the lead before it age hardens.... The last batch had to wait a few days and they were harder than the dickens and sizing was a pain... They drop in the same range as yours and I'm sizing to .430. Had to do the same as you and every time the star starts to get harder I had to run a lubed bullet through... Things then would be fine until it starts to get hard again.....

Previously had tested this alloy right as cast and the hardness was about 9 BHN and after 24 hours was 14 BHN... A week later I'm running around 18 BHN.... Sure makes quite a difference when sizing....

Will have to think about whether I want to go to the trouble of returning the burner.... It's not that it's defective or anything, it just doesn't have the ooomph to do a good job of melting range lead on a cold day.... Kinda like the fry pot and basket that came with it so might just donate it to the scouts.... Probably would be fine for what it was designed for (fish frys).....

When do you have RO duty this month? I just cast around 5-600 of the .430 245gr Keith SWC. They dropped around .432-.433 but they were a bear to size & lube. I'm
guessing that there is so much surface area on the bands that this was the case. I had to run a lubed boolit through the die every 3-4 unlubed. I'll bring some of these to
swap with you. These are water dropped so the BNH is up there (22-23).

If I were you I would return the stove you bought to Bass Pro and tell them that it couldn't do the job you wanted and get your money back. They seem to be pretty good about those things.
 
Thought this would be worth sharing.....

Ran into some leading doing load development in my S&W 629 (8 3/8 Bbl)..... Bullet was a 429421 plain base cast with 50/50 water dropped WW/Range Lead loaded over H110.... BHN on the Cabinetree was 16 or so when I tested them roughly 24 hours after casting.... Lubed with Carnauba Red.... Leading was near the chamber but cleaned out without much trouble..... Set up a new ladder with a lower set of loads and went back to the range.... Turns out 1400fps is the magic number for this gun, this bullet and this load..... Anything higher I get leading and anything lower does not.....;- )
 
The 429421 is a great 44 bullet. I have an old Lyman 4 cavity mould for it. There's a good article on bullet casting in the 2010 Gun Digest. It's called "The Encyclopedia of Bullet Casting" by Kenneth Walters. He cast over 600,000 bullets and went through 10 tons of alloy. There's lots of information on more than 600 moulds all the way up to a 10 cavity Cramer.
 
Wow, a 10 cavity Cramer! That sounds so cool..... I have his "Pet Loads" book but I have to admit I haven't started to go through it yet.....;- ) Typically I have been casting straight WW for the higher velocity stuff (>1200 fps) but this mould is a nice Cramer HP and I wanted to go with a softer alloy for the HP.....

Thanks for the tip on the "Encyclopedia".... I'll see if I can pick up a copy..... ;- )

The 429421 is a great 44 bullet. I have an old Lyman 4 cavity mould for it. There's a good article on bullet casting in the 2010 Gun Digest. It's called "The Encyclopedia of Bullet Casting" by Kenneth Walters. He cast over 600,000 bullets and went through 10 tons of alloy. There's lots of information on more than 600 moulds all the way up to a 10 cavity Cramer.
 
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