Bullet Casting 101

[Patriot]

I thought I made you some of those Lyman 429215 gas checked boolits (w/o the gas check). Give them a shot as I will bet you will solve your leading problem .

I assumed you slugged your barrel and cylinder so what are you sizing the boolits to? .001 over?

The only cast boolit I have shot that doesn't lead any of my pistols/revolvers is a Hornady shot out of my .32 H&R and it is a soft as a soft-boiled egg (5 BHN).

Thought this would be worth sharing.....

Ran into some leading doing load development in my S&W 629 (8 3/8 Bbl)..... Bullet was a 429421 plain base cast with 50/50 water dropped WW/Range Lead loaded over H110.... BHN on the Cabinetree was 16 or so when I tested them roughly 24 hours after casting.... Lubed with Carnauba Red.... Leading was near the chamber but cleaned out without much trouble..... Set up a new ladder with a lower set of loads and went back to the range.... Turns out 1400fps is the magic number for this gun, this bullet and this load..... Anything higher I get leading and anything lower does not.....;- )

 

[Patriot]

Wow, a 10 cavity Cramer! That sounds so cool..... I have his "Pet Loads" book but I have to admit I haven't started to go through it yet.....;- ) Typically I have been casting straight WW for the higher velocity stuff (>1200 fps) but this mould is a nice Cramer HP and I wanted to go with a softer alloy for the HP.....

Thanks for the tip on the "Encyclopedia".... I'll see if I can pick up a copy..... ;- )

Walters vs Waters (Pet Load Fame).

 

[Bob J]

Hi Richard.... I have to admit I haven't done anything with them yet.... Have been focused on load development for the boolits I have been casting so have put off making the gas checks for them.... My bad....

Now that I have the 44 mag load where I want it I have been working on a good load for my Savage 308...... A couple of things have been working in this mix which are probably worth sharing...

First, I was reading the beartooth bullets tech manual again (for about the 5th time) and there is a section which talks about the best powder (= accurate and minimal leading) for cast being a cool burning slow powder that gives me a relatively full case load with some pretty compelling data.... In researching this further I found a site where a guy was doing a lot of experimentation with cast 30-06 loads in an iron sighted Garand.... I correlated the results with a ranked burn rate chart for the listed powders and was able to confirm the same results as observed in the beartooth bullet data.... This gave me a whole new perspective on how loading cast boolits is different from loading jacketed...

My next stop was to get a copy of Propellent Profiles and do some further research....

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1879356775/ref=oss_product

My boolits for this are the 311291 (175 grain) and the 311284 (214 grain) straight water dropped WW (with a little tin for fill out), sized .001 over my slug, gas checked and lubed Carnauba red.

My first effort was to build a ladder for unique and found that I couldn't get to the "sweet spot" of 1700-1800 fps with it and my MV standard deviations were pretty poor so moved on the BLC(2).... This coincidentally is the powder that Duke originally taught me to load 308 although with jacketed and not cast..... I have to say that so far this is an awesome powder for my cast... Best results on the current ladder (311291) was at the bottom rung at 35.0 grains and around 2100 fps..... Clean burning, group size just over an inch for 5 rounds at 100 yards (Marcus5Aurelius was the shooter and is much better than me) from a bipod... My next ladder will see how wide this "sweet spot" is....

Also picked up some XMP5744 which I want to try as well as some VV N110 and IMR4759 so will probably be busy here for a while.... Also picked up some VV340 to try in my 1911 to see if I can get a more "cast friendly" load...

Will keep you posted......

I thought I made you some of those Lyman 429215 gas checked boolits (w/o the gas check). Give them a shot as I will bet you will solve your leading problem .

I assumed you slugged your barrel and cylinder so what are you sizing the boolits to? .001 over?

The only cast boolit I have shot that doesn't lead any of my pistols/revolvers is a Hornady shot out of my .32 H&R and it is a soft as a soft-boiled egg (5 BHN).

 

[Patriot]

I've only used 2520 for my 30-06 reloads but plan on moving to AA 2230 (what I use in the .223) in order to cut down on the number
of different powders I have. 2520 (known as the Camp Perry Powder) is supposed to be the powder of choice for the jacketed .308.
Cast is a whole different beast is we know.

I had thought about casting for my 30-06 but decided that it wasn't that big a part of my shooting hobby (used for hunting mostly) so I
am sticking with commercial plated. I use 150gr FMJ for my range fodder reloads and Remington Core-Lokt for hunting fodder. I've
thought about getting into BPCR but don't own a rifle along those lines. Goose's recent post may have stirred my interest again.

If you want some more of those GC .44 Cal boolits let me know and I can cast some up for you or I could loan you the mould if you like.

I've only read the Beartooth book about a half a dozen times as well

I keep looking at the powder burn rate charts in order to find a solution to my leading problems with cast boolits. I'm currently using
WST (which I shot yesterday for the first time) and it is a real nice powder. I shot some water dropped .45 225 LRN and some .45
200gr MiHec LHP which I purposely didn't water drop. They are about a 10 BHN and the WD are around 22 BHN. I still had a little
leading so I've got to isolate which one is causing the leading. I'm going to try some AA #5 shortly.

Hi Richard.... I have to admit I haven't done anything with them yet.... Have been focused on load development for the boolits I have been casting so have put off making the gas checks for them.... My bad....

Now that I have the 44 mag load where I want it I have been working on a good load for my Savage 308...... A couple of things have been working in this mix which are probably worth sharing...

First, I was reading the beartooth bullets tech manual again (for about the 5th time) and there is a section which talks about the best powder (= accurate and minimal leading) for cast being a cool burning slow powder that gives me a relatively full case load with some pretty compelling data.... In researching this further I found a site where a guy was doing a lot of experimentation with cast 30-06 loads in an iron sighted Garand.... I correlated the results with a ranked burn rate chart for the listed powders and was able to confirm the same results as observed in the beartooth bullet data.... This gave me a whole new perspective on how loading cast boolits is different from loading jacketed...

My next stop was to get a copy of Propellent Profiles and do some further research....

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1879356775/ref=oss_product

My boolits for this are the 311291 (175 grain) and the 311284 (214 grain) straight WW (with a little tin for fill out), sized .001 over

My first effort was to build a ladder for unique and found that I couldn't get to the "sweet spot" of 1700-1800 fps with it and my MV standard deviations were pretty poor so moved on the BLC(2).... This coincidentally is the powder that Duke originally taught me to load 308 although with jacketed and not cast.....

 

[Bob J]

Sounds good... The data I used for the 30-06 is here:

http://hgmould.gunloads.com/casting/m1garandcast.htm

Sorry about the incomplete previous post..... My keyboard sometimes has a mind of it's own..... Edited now so it should be complete....

Have been thinking about BPCR as well..... I love the movie Quigley Down Under and have always thought it would be cool to duplicate that round (PP 535 Postell in a 45/110 IIRC) in a similar gun.... Also was thinking 45/70 would be fun as well but too much on the plate right now with the 308 development stuff.... Goose's post was excellent and got me thinking as well.....

I had thought about casting for my 30-06 but decided that it wasn't that big a part of my shooting hobby (used for hunting mostly) so I am sticking with
commercial plated. I use 150gr FMJ for my range fodder reloads and Remington Core-Lokt for hunting fodder. I've thought about getting into BPCR but
don't own a rifle along those lines. Goose's recent post may have stirred my interest again.

 

[Bob J]

Hi Richard,

Sorry I missed this part of your earlier post..... Much appreciate the offer for the bullets and the loan of the mould.... Will have to see where this takes me as soon as I take care of the 308 and my 45ACP....

Beartooth bullets technical guide is awesome..... Everytime I read it I learn something new that ties what I'm learning from my experiments...

I am thinking that 45ACP will be an interesting study..... Lots of anecdotal evidence that the boolit dynamic is different for the typical loading for this round... Seems that at these velocities/pressures the key could be to get the boolit to seal properly and this favors softer alloys..... Almost the direct opposite of what I have found with my testing of the higher velocity stuff so far... I am thinking the only way I can really find out what is going on is to build a hardness (BHN) ladder for a number of stepped loads and do a good inspection for leading after each rung.... I have a number of different powders so will work up a bracket for different pressure curves as well.... This will take a while but am thinking this data should tell the tale....

Will post my results when I get done.....

If you want some more of those GC .44 Cal boolits let me know and I can cast some up for you or I could loan you the mould if you like.

I've only read the Beartooth book about a half a dozen times as well

I keep looking at the powder burn rate charts in order to find a solution to my leading problems with cast boolits. I'm currently using
WST (which I shot yesterday for the first time) and it is a real nice powder. I shot some water dropped .45 225 LRN and some .45
200gr MiHec LHP which I purposely didn't water drop. They are about a 10 BHN and the WD are around 22 BHN. I still had a little
leading so I've got to isolate which one is causing the leading. I'm going to try some AA #5 shortly.

 

[Bob J]

Mould Prep

Not sure if it is covered elsewhere but here is the steps I did to prep any newly received bullet moulds.....

1. Soak mould overnight in carb cleaner to ensure all cutting oils are removed
2. Remove Sprue plate and stone the side that rubs against the top of the mould to remove any burrs. Also break the front edge of the sprue plate. You want to remove anything that might score the top of your mould. I usually use a 300-400 grit wet/dry sandpaper glued down to a hard flat surface for this.
3. Take the mould halves and clean the cavities carefully with a alcohol wipe. I usually wrap it around a Q tip to ensure I get the lube grooves clean.
4. Reinstall the sprue plate, being careful that the wave or belleville washer is between the sprue plate and the head of the bolt...
5. If this is an aluminum mould then I put it in an oven set at 350 or so for a minimum of 15 minutes. I then allow the mould to cool down to room temp and repeat. This should be done a total of 3 times and helps ensure a good solid seating of the mould locating pins...... Note that this is only necessary for aluminum moulds....
6. While your mould is baking is a good time to prep your mould handles..... For the lee six cavity handles that I use for just about everything there is an annoying tendency for the handles to come off from the iron tang.... To fix this I use a dead blow hammer to knock the handles free from the tang and fill the tang cavity with high temp permatex gasket goop.... I then reinstall the handles on the tang and allow to cure....
7. I also remove the nut that is holding the two parts of the handle together and lubricate the area where the two parts rub together using neversieze... I then reassemble the handles and tighten the nut to a point where there is minimal play but where the handles are still very easy to open and close
8. I then install the handles on the mould, using neversieze on the screws....
9. Finally, I put a small amount of neversieze on the locating pins to ensure the mould will open and close easily.....
   
10. The last thing worth mentioning is that when I start casting I usually break the sprue on the first cast and then (with the bullets still in the mould and the mould closed) using a Q tip swab the bottom of the sprue plate as well as the top surface of the mould (where the sprue plate rubs) will bullplate sprue lube.... Be careful not to get any in your bullet cavities as it might result in your bullets sticking....

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