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Building the lightest AR possible
- Thread starter jujutsuka
- Start date
mibro
NES Member
Very interesting article and a fascinating exercise. The one piece of information missing from the article was the cost of the build. I expect that last pound of weight reduction is very expensive.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
All the TI a shit load of money .
Click on the links from the build sheet and you can get a rough idea.
Just the receiver $520.00
Bolt carrier group $579.
Muzzle brake $125.00
Trigger $279.00
Barrel $281.00
Rail/handguard $276.00 = $2,060.00
Figure another $600.00 - $700.00 for all the other parts (yeah, they're crazy too. The castle nut is $45.00, safety lever $49.00)
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Why not get a new barrel or a smith to swap out the barrel extension ?
dcmdon
NES Member
I recently tried to build the lightest possible AR.
I set myself some restrictions that tested my creativity.
1) No crazy expensive parts
2) Gun had to be accurate
3) gun had to have a 16" barrel.
I ended up using a plastic GWACS lower/stock combo. I'm not sure if I'd recommend it to everyone, but it works great.
The main thing I'm proud of, that I've never heard done anywhere else is how I came up with a low budget low mass operating system.
The first thing is to buy yourself an AR15 bolt carrier group. For marketing reasons, most guns come these days with a M16 Bolt carrier. Its heavier. And it can trip an autosear, but most people dont' need that.
This link will show you how to recognize each: http://ar15barrels.com/tech/ar15carriers.jpg
Next I went to the buffer. As you know, AR buffers have varying amounts of weight in them. This weight can move inside of the buffer. Its purpose is to prevent bolt bounce when the run is run full-auto.
As a semi-auto gun, its entirely unnecessary. So just remove all the weights from the buffer. You typically do this by driving out the roll pin that holds the high density plastic in place, dumping the weights then reinstalling the plastic and roll pin.
By doing this, I ended up with less reciprocating mass than any of the exotic systems has, and it didn't cost me anything.
If you lighten up the reciprocating mass, you will now have a problem in that the gun will be overgassed. Case extraction may begin while there is still pressure in the barrel.
The answer is an adjustable gas block. To keep weight down, you can go with a low profile steel block, or an aluminum block from JP rifles. Thats what I chose.
A lancer carbon fiber handguard would have been nice, but at $350, it fit in the exotic category.
I used a DPMS carbon handguard that was a simple tube. It came with an aluminum barrel nut. The entire thing weighed around 5 ounces and cost $80. Not tacticool, but it works great.
For a barrel, I used a Lothar Walther very light contour barrel. It is very very accurate for the first few shots, then the barrel starts to heat up and the POI starts to move. A thin barrel is a compromise caused by the my requirment that it be a full 16" The current brake is the AAC single chamber brake. Its short and light without using high dollar titanium.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/65...sor-mount-nsm-556mm-ar-15-1-2-28-thread-matte
I've attached a pic of this rifle to the bottom of this post.
The end result weighed 5.2 lbs without sights. With a Micro T1 it weighed 5.4 lbs. With a Nikon 1-4.5 scope it weighs 6.2 lbs.
This is notable because I did not use anything exotic. No titanium, no magnesium. Its even got a RRA varmint 3.5 lb trigger. I did not get to use a non-FA upper on this gun, which would shave a couple of more ounces off the gun.
Build 2
I'm just starting to come up with a NEW lightweight build. The goals for this one are:
1) Standard AR lower
2) Machine gun
3) No exotic parts
2) 1.5 MOA with magnified optic
Since its going to be a MG (using a proper, legal lower), I needed the barrel to be reasonably thick. So in order to keep the weight down, I'm going with a 10.5" medium contour barrel. This barrel should be good and stiff since its so short.
I will need to use an M16 bolt carrier to trip the autosear. However, I will be experimenting with reducing the amount of buffer weight in the buffer.
It will need an adjustable gas block. It would be a bad idea to use an aluminum block with a MG, so I'm going with a low profile steel adjustable one.
Unlike the gun shown below, I'm giving up on requiring that the gun need to be usable with iron sights. (hence, the railed block on the plastic semi auto rifle) So I'll also use an extended handguard that goes to within a couple of inches of the muzzle.
The stock will either be a Mission first tactical adjustable stock or an Ace fixed lightweight stock.
Don
p.s. Yes its ugly. But it shoots like a dream.
I set myself some restrictions that tested my creativity.
1) No crazy expensive parts
2) Gun had to be accurate
3) gun had to have a 16" barrel.
I ended up using a plastic GWACS lower/stock combo. I'm not sure if I'd recommend it to everyone, but it works great.
The main thing I'm proud of, that I've never heard done anywhere else is how I came up with a low budget low mass operating system.
The first thing is to buy yourself an AR15 bolt carrier group. For marketing reasons, most guns come these days with a M16 Bolt carrier. Its heavier. And it can trip an autosear, but most people dont' need that.
This link will show you how to recognize each: http://ar15barrels.com/tech/ar15carriers.jpg
Next I went to the buffer. As you know, AR buffers have varying amounts of weight in them. This weight can move inside of the buffer. Its purpose is to prevent bolt bounce when the run is run full-auto.
As a semi-auto gun, its entirely unnecessary. So just remove all the weights from the buffer. You typically do this by driving out the roll pin that holds the high density plastic in place, dumping the weights then reinstalling the plastic and roll pin.
By doing this, I ended up with less reciprocating mass than any of the exotic systems has, and it didn't cost me anything.
If you lighten up the reciprocating mass, you will now have a problem in that the gun will be overgassed. Case extraction may begin while there is still pressure in the barrel.
The answer is an adjustable gas block. To keep weight down, you can go with a low profile steel block, or an aluminum block from JP rifles. Thats what I chose.
A lancer carbon fiber handguard would have been nice, but at $350, it fit in the exotic category.
I used a DPMS carbon handguard that was a simple tube. It came with an aluminum barrel nut. The entire thing weighed around 5 ounces and cost $80. Not tacticool, but it works great.
For a barrel, I used a Lothar Walther very light contour barrel. It is very very accurate for the first few shots, then the barrel starts to heat up and the POI starts to move. A thin barrel is a compromise caused by the my requirment that it be a full 16" The current brake is the AAC single chamber brake. Its short and light without using high dollar titanium.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/65...sor-mount-nsm-556mm-ar-15-1-2-28-thread-matte
I've attached a pic of this rifle to the bottom of this post.
The end result weighed 5.2 lbs without sights. With a Micro T1 it weighed 5.4 lbs. With a Nikon 1-4.5 scope it weighs 6.2 lbs.
This is notable because I did not use anything exotic. No titanium, no magnesium. Its even got a RRA varmint 3.5 lb trigger. I did not get to use a non-FA upper on this gun, which would shave a couple of more ounces off the gun.
Build 2
I'm just starting to come up with a NEW lightweight build. The goals for this one are:
1) Standard AR lower
2) Machine gun
3) No exotic parts
2) 1.5 MOA with magnified optic
Since its going to be a MG (using a proper, legal lower), I needed the barrel to be reasonably thick. So in order to keep the weight down, I'm going with a 10.5" medium contour barrel. This barrel should be good and stiff since its so short.
I will need to use an M16 bolt carrier to trip the autosear. However, I will be experimenting with reducing the amount of buffer weight in the buffer.
It will need an adjustable gas block. It would be a bad idea to use an aluminum block with a MG, so I'm going with a low profile steel adjustable one.
Unlike the gun shown below, I'm giving up on requiring that the gun need to be usable with iron sights. (hence, the railed block on the plastic semi auto rifle) So I'll also use an extended handguard that goes to within a couple of inches of the muzzle.
The stock will either be a Mission first tactical adjustable stock or an Ace fixed lightweight stock.
Don
p.s. Yes its ugly. But it shoots like a dream.
Last edited:
Some other NES threads covering this topic:
Any need for AR15 Titanium uppers and lowers
Someone stole Lantac's one of a kind Titanium BCG at S.H.O.T.
super lightweight aluminum AR lower/upper
EDIT: LOOKS LIKE YOU BEAT ME!!!!!!!!!!
Any need for AR15 Titanium uppers and lowers
Someone stole Lantac's one of a kind Titanium BCG at S.H.O.T.
super lightweight aluminum AR lower/upper
EDIT: LOOKS LIKE YOU BEAT ME!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited:
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
I recently tried to build the lightest possible AR.
I set myself some restrictions that tested my creativity.
1) No crazy expensive parts
2) Gun had to be accurate
3) gun had to have a 16" barrel.
I ended up using a plastic GWACS lower/stock combo. I'm not sure if I'd recommend it to everyone, but it works great.
The main thing I'm proud of, that I've never heard done anywhere else is how I came up with a low budget low mass operating system.
The first thing is to buy yourself an AR15 bolt carrier group. For marketing reasons, most guns come these days with a M16 Bolt carrier. Its heavier. And it can trip an autosear, but most people dont' need that.
This link will show you how to recognize each: http://ar15barrels.com/tech/ar15carriers.jpg
Next I went to the buffer. As you know, AR buffers have varying amounts of weight in them. This weight can move inside of the buffer. Its purpose is to prevent bolt bounce when the run is run full-auto.
As a semi-auto gun, its entirely unnecessary. So just remove all the weights from the buffer. You typically do this by driving out the roll pin that holds the high density plastic in place, dumping the weights then reinstalling the plastic and roll pin.
By doing this, I ended up with less reciprocating mass than any of the exotic systems has, and it didn't cost me anything.
If you lighten up the reciprocating mass, you will now have a problem in that the gun will be overgassed. Case extraction may begin while there is still pressure in the barrel.
The answer is an adjustable gas block. To keep weight down, you can go with a low profile steel block, or an aluminum block from JP rifles. Thats what I chose.
A lancer carbon fiber handguard would have been nice, but at $350, it fit in the exotic category.
I used a DPMS carbon handguard that was a simple tube. It came with an aluminum barrel nut. The entire thing weighed around 5 ounces and cost $80. Not tacticool, but it works great.
For a barrel, I used a Lothar Walther very light contour barrel. It is very very accurate for the first few shots, then the barrel starts to heat up and the POI starts to move. A thin barrel is a compromise caused by the my requirment that it be a full 16" The current brake is the AAC single chamber brake. Its short and light without using high dollar titanium.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/65...sor-mount-nsm-556mm-ar-15-1-2-28-thread-matte
I've attached a pic of this rifle to the bottom of this post.
The end result weighed 5.2 lbs without sights. With a Micro T1 it weighed 5.4 lbs. With a Nikon 1-4.5 scope it weighs 6.2 lbs.
This is notable because I did not use anything exotic. No titanium, no magnesium. Its even got a RRA varmint 3.5 lb trigger. I did not get to use a non-FA upper on this gun, which would shave a couple of more ounces off the gun.
Build 2
I'm just starting to come up with a NEW lightweight build. The goals for this one are:
1) Standard AR lower
2) Machine gun
3) No exotic parts
2) 1.5 MOA with magnified optic
Since its going to be a MG (using a proper, legal lower), I needed the barrel to be reasonably thick. So in order to keep the weight down, I'm going with a 10.5" medium contour barrel. This barrel should be good and stiff since its so short.
I will need to use an M16 bolt carrier to trip the autosear. However, I will be experimenting with reducing the amount of buffer weight in the buffer.
It will need an adjustable gas block. It would be a bad idea to use an aluminum block with a MG, so I'm going with a low profile steel adjustable one.
Unlike the gun shown below, I'm giving up on requiring that the gun need to be usable with iron sights. (hence, the railed block on the plastic semi auto rifle) So I'll also use an extended handguard that goes to within a couple of inches of the muzzle.
The stock will either be a Mission first tactical adjustable stock or an Ace fixed lightweight stock.
Don
p.s. Yes its ugly. But it shoots like a dream.
If you don't go with some crazy coated bcg I could help lighten the bcg. I converted some nib or what ever it's called coated bcg to side charging that shit was hard to cut. I'll never do that again .lol
If you don't use the fa. We can drill holes down the sides, the top of the rear etc to get rid of weight . Or slots . Figure it's better idea so you can leave the tungsten In the buffer so you get the dead blow effect for safety .
Heck if you didn't care about it only being full auto you could go with a sp1 carrier and use a lighting link.
Last edited:
dcmdon
NES Member
A titanium would be dumb because Titanium is 60% heavier than Aluminum. Its stronger, but if you just took the standard dimensions of an AR and made it in Ti, it would weigh more.
A firearm would need to be optimized with thinner wall construction to use Ti to its fullest extent.
With very few exceptions it goes like this.
Ti can be substituted as a lighter form of Steel
Magnesium can be substituted as a lighter form of Aluminum.
Don
- - - Updated - - -
Ben,
I think its as light as I want it to be. It cycles very very fast now.
Lets talk about lightening the bolt carrier on the MG. 1200 rpm baby YEAH. Ha.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
That's what I was a talking about making lighter lol . There's a lot of metal we can remove from the bolt and leave some tungsten in the buffer so it's prevents bolt bounce . The reason why it's lose is so it acts like a dead blow hammer. Hk did the same thing with the ump bolt , Since it was closed bolt , straight blow back.
The an-97 is 1800 for two shot burst . I bet a m4/16 at 1200 would be sick on 3 shot burst .
dcmdon
NES Member
OK, I'm in.
One more reason for us to get together.
I'm aware of the anti-bounce benefits of the buffer weights. But on the other gun, a semi-auto that is purely a toy, it was unnecessary.
The MG should have buffer weights.
That bolt carrier is pretty wild. The bottom forward projection looks like it could trip an autosear.
There was a guy on silencertalk.com who had a M9/11 A1 that ran close to 3000 rpm. It was crazy. It sounded like a mini-gun. I'll try to find a link to the youtube video.
Don
One more reason for us to get together.
I'm aware of the anti-bounce benefits of the buffer weights. But on the other gun, a semi-auto that is purely a toy, it was unnecessary.
The MG should have buffer weights.
That bolt carrier is pretty wild. The bottom forward projection looks like it could trip an autosear.
There was a guy on silencertalk.com who had a M9/11 A1 that ran close to 3000 rpm. It was crazy. It sounded like a mini-gun. I'll try to find a link to the youtube video.
Don
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Lol holy crap.
Yeah I believe that ti coated bcg is for full auto .
Wouldn't take that long to lighten .
Last edited by a moderator:
scatter
NES Member
Has the no-weight buffer arrangement been reliable for you? Do you have to adjust the gas for different loads or between cleanings? It seems like this setup would have very little margin for error.
There is a titanium manufacture of parts for AR's and their pricing looks very attractive. It appears they plan on launching in Fall of 2015: http://amalgamatedti.com/arms.html
Their listed weight of a stripped lower in 100% Ti is 14.2 ounces. An aluminum stripped lower is about 8.5, right?
I like the line "Titanium products are superior to steel and aluminum yet similarly priced". I hope that's true.
I also love that they are in Cambridge, MA. Do they have their FFL to manufacture lower receivers?
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warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
I'm interested in this company since they claim to have a new way to machine TI
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
I'm not sure . There claims are along the lines of there machining it at the same cost as aluminum . I've worked with it before and it's not the easy to machine. Very easy to work harden . Tool life not that great .
I have a feeling the work area in submerged in coolant that is circulating. Vs just spraying a shit load of coolant at it like most cnc machines.
What they have released doesn't go into any detail. But they claim besides material cost they got it down to aluminum .
scatter
NES Member
I am still very interested in how reliable this has been.
I just finished a similar project, a lightweight AR 22 rimfire for steel matches. Using carbon fiber parts from Taccom, Ti from V 7 and a polymer lower from Tegra the gun came in at 3lb 7oz with a Leupold Delta point installed.
The polymer lower by Tegra is considerably lighter than the competition at 3.8 oz. It works great in a 22 but I'm not sure that I would want to use it in 223. A point of interest; Battle Arms Development, which is mentioned in the article, will not ship lowers to MA.
The polymer lower by Tegra is considerably lighter than the competition at 3.8 oz. It works great in a 22 but I'm not sure that I would want to use it in 223. A point of interest; Battle Arms Development, which is mentioned in the article, will not ship lowers to MA.
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