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Building off of a Form 1

S

Stape

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So looking at getting a suppressor. They are everywhere and every and any model is available to me here in MO, but.......

I have quite a few experiences of shooting home made kits that were every bit as quiet as the more expensive over the counter examples, which got me wondering...

So say I go the form 1 route. I know what I want, and I know the dimensions of it. Do I submit a form 1 with said description of the device, then when the approved form comes back, buy my materials? Or do I buy my materials, but not assemble, and wait for the approval to proceed?
 
Stape said:
So looking at getting a suppressor. They are everywhere and every and any model is available to me here in MO, but.......

I have quite a few experiences of shooting home made kits that were every bit as quiet as the more expensive over the counter examples, which got me wondering...

So say I go the form 1 route. I know what I want, and I know the dimensions of it. Do I submit a form 1 with said description of the device, then when the approved form comes back, buy my materials? Or do I buy my materials, but not assemble, and wait for the approval to proceed?
Click to expand...

You submit a "blueprint" when you apply for your form 1, this is not required but its how I've always done it. This can be hand drawn on graph paper or if you have access to CAD you can make a drawing there. The design is then uploaded during the form 1 process. If you choose not to do a blueprint you can simply load the dimensions into the eForm 1 on line if you want to, you specify the length and diameter. I have always used a CAD since a friend does them for me.

The most important thing is you build a sufficient design for the intended use, often this will cost more money but still significantly less than a production can. If you choose a solvent trap watch how short you go with barrels and pay attention to heat build up, the pressure in a can is intense, don't cheap out as they fail catastrophically. If you don't have access to a milling machine to clip the baffles it will not be as quiet or even close to a production can, drilling holes on a drill press works but clipping is better.

Here are some resources I used when I built mine.

(Change DOT to .) It loads the whole page if I leave it in.
https://www.redditDOTcom/r/NFA/comments/489ew5/reference_guide_form_1_suppressor_calculations/

Home | Form 1 Suppressor

I bought a lot of stuff from these guys,

Products – Diversified Machine

https://www.form1builder.com/

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
JRT said:
You submit a "blueprint" when you apply for your form 1, this is not required but its how I've always done it. This can be hand drawn on graph paper or if you have access to CAD you can make a drawing there. The design is then uploaded during the form 1 process. If you don't choose to se a blueprint you can simply load the dimensions into the eForm 1 on line if you want to, you specify the length and diameter. I have always used a CAD since a friend does them for me.

The most important thing is you build a sufficient design for the intended use, often this will cost more money but still significantly less than a production can. If you choose a solvent trap watch how short you go with barrels and pay attention to heat build up, the pressure in a can is intense, don't cheap out as they fail catastrophically. If you don't have access to a milling machine to clip the baffles it will not be as quiet or even close to a production can, drilling holes on a drill press works but clipping is better.

Here are some resources I used when I built mine.

(Change DOT to .) It loads the whole page if I leave it in.
https://www.redditDOTcom/r/NFA/comments/489ew5/reference_guide_form_1_suppressor_calculations/

Home | Form 1 Suppressor

I bought a lot of stuff from these guys,

Products – Diversified Machine

Good luck!
Click to expand...
You're going to be the death of me
 
Stape said:
So looking at getting a suppressor. They are everywhere and every and any model is available to me here in MO, but.......

I have quite a few experiences of shooting home made kits that were every bit as quiet as the more expensive over the counter examples, which got me wondering...

So say I go the form 1 route. I know what I want, and I know the dimensions of it. Do I submit a form 1 with said description of the device, then when the approved form comes back, buy my materials? Or do I buy my materials, but not assemble, and wait for the approval to proceed?
Click to expand...

I forgot about your second question. A lawyer would probably tell you to wait for approval before you buy. Lawyers probably live boring lives and never run into trouble with the ATF, thats just not living. I say its very low risk to buy and have your stuff ready when the approval email comes. It's not a suppressor until you drill and clip the baffles. You can order all of these parts without using an FFL/SOT so they are not considered suppressor parts. ATF only shoots your doggo if you jump the gun on assembly.
 
JRT said:
You submit a "blueprint" when you apply for your form 1, this is not required but its how I've always done it. This can be hand drawn on graph paper or if you have access to CAD you can make a drawing there. The design is then uploaded during the form 1 process. If you choose not to do a blueprint you can simply load the dimensions into the eForm 1 on line if you want to, you specify the length and diameter. I have always used a CAD since a friend does them for me.

The most important thing is you build a sufficient design for the intended use, often this will cost more money but still significantly less than a production can. If you choose a solvent trap watch how short you go with barrels and pay attention to heat build up, the pressure in a can is intense, don't cheap out as they fail catastrophically. If you don't have access to a milling machine to clip the baffles it will not be as quiet or even close to a production can, drilling holes on a drill press works but clipping is better.

Here are some resources I used when I built mine.

(Change DOT to .) It loads the whole page if I leave it in.
https://www.redditDOTcom/r/NFA/comments/489ew5/reference_guide_form_1_suppressor_calculations/

Home | Form 1 Suppressor

I bought a lot of stuff from these guys,

Products – Diversified Machine

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks man. Specifically I was looking at the solvent trap set from form1 builder . com. This is going to be used on a bolt gun in 308 using subsonic loads for rural pest control. But, who am I kidding, I'll probably build a 300 an d try to melt the thing down..
I'll research the links you provided and get some ejumacayshun
 
Stape said:
What is "clipping" vs drilling the end cap and baffles?
Click to expand...

This is my Dead Air Ghost 45 suppressor. It shows better on the right, you see the hole bored for the bullet path and you see a cut in the bore, that’s the clip. Whatever happens in a can that clip significantly reduces sound. I should say I’m not a pro on what can be done with drill presses. The same friend who does the CAD has a high tech machine shop. It was his opinion we clip on the CNC machine. Maybe that could be done on a drill press or with a router. I probably overstepped my knowledge on that comment, somebody with better knowledge of machining could tell you what tool would do that best.

764E24B1-FE5B-4D6B-8545-5A4CD2AF1C64.jpeg
 
Last edited:
JRT said:
This is my Dead Air Ghost 45 suppressor. It shows better on the right, you see the hole bored for the bullet path and you see a cut in the bore, that’s the clip. Whatever happens in a can that clip significantly reduces sound. I should say I’m not a pro on what can be done with drill presses. The same friend who does the CAD has a high tech machine shop. It was his opinion we clip on the CNC machine. Maybe that could be done on a drill press or with a router. I probably overstepped my knowledge on that comment, somebody with better knowledge of machining could tell you what tool would do that best.

View attachment 288072
Click to expand...

Should change the title to a how to form 1 and build a suppressor.

Following lol
 
Stape said:
Thanks man. Specifically I was looking at the solvent trap set from form1 builder . com. This is going to be used on a bolt gun in 308 using subsonic loads for rural pest control. But, who am I kidding, I'll probably build a 300 an d try to melt the thing down..
I'll research the links you provided and get some ejumacayshun
Click to expand...

I forgot about Form 1 Builder. They are an excellent source for knowledge and to purchase. I added them to the links above for reference.
 
ScottS said:
FWIW, I've built 5 Form 1 cans, and have never submitted a blueprint or drawing of any kind.

Model name (your choice), serial # (your choice), caliber, and length are all I've ever entered on the eForm 1. Approved every time.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I wasn’t clear in my post. A blueprint is not required. It’s the print or you enter the info into the form like you did. Both will be approved.
 
OK, so being a novice at best, is there a all in one kit with instructions that could be acquired based on my intended use? Then when my approved form comes back, drill the required holes and assemble (I know it probably is more involved but keeping it short and simple for brevity). If I could get such a kit, Id do so, submit my paperwork and $200, then study study study the 10mo or however long it is until I get approval, and in that time gain some knowledge so that I'm ready to complete.
 
JRT said:
This is my Dead Air Ghost 45 suppressor. It shows better on the right, you see the hole bored for the bullet path and you see a cut in the bore, that’s the clip. Whatever happens in a can that clip significantly reduces sound. I should say I’m not a pro on what can be done with drill presses. The same friend who does the CAD has a high tech machine shop. It was his opinion we clip on the CNC machine. Maybe that could be done on a drill press or with a router. I probably overstepped my knowledge on that comment, somebody with better knowledge of machining could tell you what tool would do that best.

View attachment 288072
Click to expand...

Do the clips line up in the tube or are they offset? Does it matter?
 
Stape said:
Do the clips line up in the tube or are they offset? Does it matter?
Click to expand...

So they line up in almost all suppressors. There is a notch in the baffles that fit together with the next baffle to keep them lined up. I noticed the other day that my Q Erector the clips are random and it’s a very quiet can. Twenty-two is stupid easy to suppress though so I don’t know if that’s a good example.
 
Stape said:
OK, so being a novice at best, is there a all in one kit with instructions that could be acquired based on my intended use? Then when my approved form comes back, drill the required holes and assemble (I know it probably is more involved but keeping it short and simple for brevity). If I could get such a kit, Id do so, submit my paperwork and $200, then study study study the 10mo or however long it is until I get approval, and in that time gain some knowledge so that I'm ready to complete.
Click to expand...

You won’t be able to study 10 months, the current eForm 1 approval time is around 20 to 25 days.
 
So let me get this straight, because now I am really interested in doing this for rimfire (a suppressor I can switch from my MK IV to my CZ 455 - both have the same mounting threads):

I submit a form 1 to build a suppressor off of this:

1x6-PRODUCT.jpg

https://www.form1builder.com/product/1-x-6-rimfire-22-cal-pistol-solvent-trap-kit-•-a-cell/

I order it, get the stamp, and just drill the holes and tah dah? Etch it like the SBR (Maker name/city state), throw it on and giggle?
 
I'd like to form1 a suppressor, but I am just not sure what kind I want. I kind of have my bases covered with factory built cans.

A bigger, quieter, .22 can for rifle use could be cool to have, tho...
 
CoastieRon said:
So let me get this straight, because now I am really interested in doing this for rimfire (a suppressor I can switch from my MK IV to my CZ 455 - both have the same mounting threads):

I submit a form 1 to build a suppressor off of this:

1x6-PRODUCT.jpg

https://www.form1builder.com/product/1-x-6-rimfire-22-cal-pistol-solvent-trap-kit-•-a-cell/

I order it, get the stamp, and just drill the holes and tah dah? Etch it like the SBR (Maker name/city state), throw it on and giggle?
Click to expand...

That pretty much sums it up. You will need to give it a serial number as well.
 
CoastieRon said:
That I can do. Is it really as simple as drilling the holes, or does there need to be clipping as well? I think I have access to a really good press.....
Click to expand...

I have a friend with a machine shop so I'm of no help here, he does mine on a CNC machine. You have to add the clip because that's what creates the vents out of the stack of baffles. Thats what cools the gases and reduces the signature. I'm guessing it's completely possible on a drill press.
 
JRT said:
I have a friend with a machine shop so I'm of no help here, he does mine on a CNC machine. You have to add the clip because that's what creates the vents out of the stack of baffles. Thats what cools the gases and reduces the signature. I'm guessing it's completely possible on a drill press.
Click to expand...
But it can be done with a Dremel, no?
 
JRT said:
I have a friend with a machine shop so I'm of no help here, he does mine on a CNC machine. You have to add the clip because that's what creates the vents out of the stack of baffles. That's what cools the gases and reduces the signature. I'm guessing it's completely possible on a drill press.
Click to expand...

Actually, the baffles do the heavy lifting in cooling the gases and reducing signature. Each baffle slightly delays the bulk gas movement, and then strips that expanding gas into a cooling and expansion volume (cone). As the gas expands, it cools. The clip(s) create turbulence or cross jetting, primarily so that the high pressure slug of gas doesn't follow the bullet without turbulence into the free air beyond the front of the can. The clips "work" the gas by creating turbulence, keeping the gas in the can longer, and make the can more efficient.

That's over-simplified, to be sure, but it at least gets the point across.
 
ScottS said:
Actually, the baffles do the heavy lifting in cooling the gases and reducing signature. Each baffle slightly delays the bulk gas movement, and then strips that expanding gas into a cooling and expansion volume (cone). As the gas expands, it cools. The clip(s) create turbulence or cross jetting, primarily so that the high pressure slug of gas doesn't follow the bullet without turbulence into the free air beyond the front of the can. The clips "work" the gas by creating turbulence, keeping the gas in the can longer, and make the can more efficient.

That's over-simplified, to be sure, but it at least gets the point across.
Click to expand...

To me it does not seem over simplified, thanks for the explanation. What are your thoughts on @CoastieRon question about using a drill press?
 
JRT said:
To me it does not seem over simplified, thanks for the explanation. What are your thoughts on @CoastieRon question about using a drill press?
Click to expand...

I don't know about clipping with a drill press. I've seen examples of guys clipping with dremel cutoff wheels, sometimes with the cutoff wheel on a drill press, with what looked like good results. I think it would depend on the quality of the drill press, and the skill of the operator. I think patience and skill would be paramount. Personally, I'd want something more precise and repeatable.

With a drill press, I'm afraid I'd clip all right...my fingers.
 
Can you repair your own suppressor? Say you get a baffle strike, or mess up the final assembly in making one off of a Form 1. Can you buy additional components or an extra kit to keep for spare parts? I would imagine the tube has to stay the same as thats what is engraved?
 
Stape said:
Can you repair your own suppressor? Say you get a baffle strike, or mess up the final assembly in making one off of a Form 1. Can you buy additional components or an extra kit to keep for spare parts? I would imagine the tube has to stay the same as thats what is engraved?
Click to expand...

You can’t repair suppressor parts. Tubes and baffles are suppressor parts and would need to go to an 07 SOT. End caps and mounts are user serviceable. If you strike and end cap, fix it, if it’s a baffle go to an 07 SOT.
 
Stape said:
Can you repair your own suppressor? Say you get a baffle strike, or mess up the final assembly in making one off of a Form 1. Can you buy additional components or an extra kit to keep for spare parts? I would imagine the tube has to stay the same as thats what is engraved?
Click to expand...
Not suggesting that you violate any laws, but things have been done in the wood shed, at night, under a tarp. Jack.
 

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