Building an AR pistol in MA

jasons

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(Putting on my flame gear - I know this is going to hurt.)


I am considering building an AR pistol in MA. I'm aware that they are subject to the AWB, must be under 50oz, etc. I intend to follow all applicable laws to the letter.

That said, is there any way (BESIDES getting arrested and going to trial) to get a ruling on whether or not a specific configuration is legal? Back in the old federal AWB days one could write a letter to the BATFE and they would reply back with a "yeah, that looks legal" or "no, you're going to jail" letter. Basically I'm looking for a little insurance to cover my ass.

Go easy. [wink]
 
I was thinking about the same thing when I saw the polymer lowers for sale.

Why might they be against regulations?

Thanks,

Rich
 
Why might they be against regulations?

Does the 50oz. include the magazine.

Two great questions. I think it would all come down to interpretation of the law:
(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;​

i - Pretty obvious here - the magazine WILL attach outside of the pistol grip. That means none of the other evil features can be present.
ii - As with rifles I intend to pin and weld a compensator or simply use a target crown. Seems simple enough.
iii - I will not use hand-guards. Could a DA argue that the barrel nut is somehow a "shroud?"
iv - Does "unloaded" mean unloaded in the traditional sense (no mag,) or with an empty mag? If it comes out to 48oz and then I put a red dot on am I now a felon?
 
Two great questions. I think it would all come down to interpretation of the law:


i - Pretty obvious here - the magazine WILL attach outside of the pistol grip. That means none of the other evil features can be present.
ii - As with rifles I intend to pin and weld a compensator or simply use a target crown. Seems simple enough.
iii - I will not use hand-guards. Could a DA argue that the barrel nut is somehow a "shroud?"
iv - Does "unloaded" mean unloaded in the traditional sense (no mag,) or with an empty mag? If it comes out to 48oz and then I put a red dot on am I now a felon?

That bit about using hand guards is an interesting one (the barrel nut and the gas block are potential points of gripage, for lack of a better word, that can blow your theory out of the water). I would setup a legal defense fund in advance, but creative nonetheless. Now, you need to be clear on one point, the lower has to have never been built into a rifle. Get a letter from the lower mfg stating it had never been built into a rifle before being sent to your FFL.

BTW: I am in no way condoning this, as I don't think it is a smart thing to do, but just giving you some advice nonetheless.
 
Why not build one from a pistol receiver as an AOW? Then you can have the front handguards but you'll need to fix a front grip on there. This was done quite a bit during the federal AWB as a workaround for the evil "assault pistol".
 
Why not build one from a pistol receiver as an AOW? Then you can have the front handguards but you'll need to fix a front grip on there. This was done quite a bit during the federal AWB as a workaround for the evil "assault pistol".

That's plan B, but I was hoping to avoid the $200 NFA tax and 6+ month wait for the approval....
 
Just curious, what is it not a smart thing to do? The fore grip thing or building an AR pistol in general?

If I were to think about building one, the AR platform gives you a decent place to hold on with the support hand on the mag well.
 
This is an exercise in futility in MA.

You are FAR better off getting a preban AR and SBRing it, then you can basically make it as short as you want.

An AWB compliant AR pistol, nearly any way you slice it, will be crap... you will have to make so many compromises in construction that its not worth the effort. (That is, unless you LIKE burning your hands on the thing, wearing an oven mitt, or drilling 100 holes in your receiver to get it below the legal weight limit... )

-Mike
 
I would also agree that SBR is the way to go if you want a short AR.

Ideally, yes. The drawback to that, like the AOW, is the $200 NFA tax and the 6+ month wait. And thats IF your local CLEO will sign off.

So frustrating.... I basically want to build something like this:
sw_mp15-22p_01.jpg


Yes I realize it's a .22LR. Yes I realize that it serves no practical purpose whatsoever. I'm just looking for something a little different to bring to the range.
 
Meh.

Thanks for all of the great input and wisdom. I've decided to abandon the AR pistol idea for now. What was I thinking, building such an evil baby killing monstrosity here in our fair Commonwealth? [rolleyes]

I'll just make a regular dedicated .22 rifle instead. How exciting.
 
My suggestion is that you build a mimic of a current-production Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, the sub-50-ounce model which lacks a forearm, a full-size barrel nut, and the malfunctions which have plagued the Professional Ordnance versions. On day "x," purchase a bare receiver which Bushmaster has recorded for ATF as a pistol. On day "y," complete your pistol, photograph said pistol while it rests on a postal scale beside a newspaper of the same date, and register said pistol with FRB via Form F.A. - 10. On day "y" plus 30, transfer said pistol to a friend via said form. On day "y" plus 60, have said friend transfer said pistol back to you via said form. Thereafter, avoiding barrel shrouds and muzzle threads, modify said pistol to your heart's content as the "manufactured" weight and configuration are established by the photography. Run this protocol "up the flagpole" and see what the attorneys/counselors/lawyers have to say. Less begging, less tax, less wait. P.S. Visit www.jcweaponry.com/images/ar15/BB.JPG .
 
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I am quite aware that the M.G.L., the C.M.R., and Massachusetts case law mandate no such combination of procedures on any such timetable. I deliberately went "over the top." However, on this site, many have asserted that, when a private party builds a gun in Massachusetts from a bare frame, that party must register that gun via Form F.A. - 10. When I formulated the protocol above, I took the statements of the many into consideration. Although I have used a variety of keywords in my searches here, I have been unable to find a citation for the precise section of the M.G.L. or the C.M.R. which requires registration of a private build. Please advise.
 
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Never mind. Upon close inspection of Chapter 140, Section 128B, I suppose that the requirement to register a private build stems from the following phrases: "any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or OBTAINS (Emphasis added.) a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun FROM ANY SOURCE (Emphasis added.) " and "AFTER RECEIVING (Emphasis added.) such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun." P.S. Apparently, receipt does not have to occur in Massachusetts for a resident to be compelled to register his or her arm. Apparently, the seven-day clock begins to tick immediately upon acquisition.
 
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That's plan B, but I was hoping to avoid the $200 NFA tax and 6+ month wait for the approval....
The AOW tax is $5.00, not $200 - but you still need the local chief's signoff or an NFA trust.
 
Never mind. Upon close inspection of Chapter 140, Section 128B, I suppose that the requirement to register a private build stems from the following phrases: "any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or OBTAINS (Emphasis added.) a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun FROM ANY SOURCE (Emphasis added.) " and "AFTER RECEIVING (Emphasis added.) such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun."

Correct.

P.S. Apparently, receipt does not have to occur in Massachusetts for a resident to be compelled to register his or her arm. Apparently, the seven-day clock begins to tick immediately upon acquisition.

Incorrect. The FA-10 is required to be submitted within 7 days of the firearm entering the state...

M.G.L. c.140 s.128B

...and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth...
 
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Grammatically, the following phrase only applies to nonresidents: "and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth." Legislators and their staff members need to do more than just access a legislative research and drafting manual (Visit www.mass.gov/legis/drafting.htm .) The dolts need to go back to elementary school.

Chapter 140: Section 128B. Unauthorized purchase of firearms; report to commissioner; penalties
Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than such a licensee or person, and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun
...

Red text plus green text equals duty for resident to report acquisition almost immediately and regardless of physical location.

P.S. The phrase "other than from" is incorrect on two levels. At the micro level, the phrase should read "from other than." At the macro level, either the word "from" should be dropped from the phrase or the phrase should be completely replaced with the word "beside."

P.P.S. I am so tired of watching gun owners get screwed by poor legislative draftsmanship!
 
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By the way, my suggestion still stands... that jasons build a mimic of an AR-pattern, current-production, state-ban-compliant pistol such as the Bushmaster Carbon 15 (or a copy of an AR-pattern pistol which was manufactured between 1994 and 2004 and which was compliant with the federal ban of that time period).
 
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Sorry for the bump of an old thread here, but I have a question that's right in line with a few in this thread:

For a home build, at which point is the pistol "manufactured" and therefor weighed?
 
Wouldn't it be as soon as the lower receiver (firearm) is attached to an under 16" barrel?

On a side note, I don't have the time to start going through all of the chapters and sections that cover rifles, pistols, assault weapons. But, I believe that to be considered an AR15 pistol and required to be under 50oz. It has to have the (two of the following) status. Which is guaranteed with a detachable mag and a pistol grip. It's also been debated that you can't just use any lower receiver unless you can prove it was a pistol only rifle for 100% of its life.

Since you'll most likely never find an FFL who will transfer in and sell you a rock river arms "Pistol only" AR15 lower (and if you do, tell no one) I think your best bet to have an AR15 Post Ban Pistol in MA with non of the gimmicky tax stamps. Would be to buy an 80% finished lower, build it up yourself, stamp it "Pistol Only" and get a mag size of your choosing (30 rd preban if you've got one) and pin it into the magwell. That would now make it a permanent fixture and therefore non-detachable. The way I read the laws was, that now this is just a big fun pistol that happens to shoot 5.56 or 7.62, 6.8. Oh and I no longer have my AR15, but I'm pretty sure that you can pop the pins and unfold the AR and top load the mag that is now permanently attached.
 
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