Building a Gun room in Basement?

[msdamato]

So I currently have have a 9x7 reloding room in the basement. We are starting a kitchen renovation in the coming months and I will have to dissassemble the walls and racks that I have to allow access for the plumber, Electrician, and HVAC. When I rebuild I plan on taking double the space. This was part of the agreement with the boss when we agreed on the kitchen redo.

I currently have two lockers 1 12gun with 10 rifles in it (thats all that fits), and another 12gun with rifles and shotguns stacked like cord wood. I despratly need to remedy this situation.

My question is can I build it into a "safe" room? By that I mean this room would take the place of a safe! I would still have a locker for ammo and components inside but it would take the place of a gun safe. and whats it gonna take to make it MA legal? I have been in the market for another safe and think this may be a better option.

My thought for wall construction is: Plywood, 2x4 studs, 1/4" sheet metal, 2x4 studs, plywood. Then a metal security door. the sheet metal I can get from work is $80 for 4x8 and I will need 7 sheets.

I did a search on NES and google and found mostly people talking about using block walls, which is also an option but a less desirable one as I am not a proficient mason.

 

[Business]

The law doesn't say you need a safe. You'd be legal with trigger locks or locked in cases

 

[msdamato]

The law doesn't say you need a safe. You'd be legal with trigger locks or locked in cases

I understand that. If I wanted to trigger lock all my guns in this room I wouldnt be asking how to build a room that qualifys as a safe I'd be asking where to get a deal on bulk trigger locks!

 

[mrjones]

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131L

As I interpret that, you can get by with storing all of your guns (without trigger locks or cases) and ammo in one locked closet (or in your case, gun room), providing the ammo is in ammo cans or some other container strong enough to satisfy the additional fire safety regulations of 527 CMR 13.04.

I'd say all you need is a secure lock on the door of your gun room. I am not, however, a lawyer.

 

[Coyote33]

I understand that. If I wanted to trigger lock all my guns in this room I wouldnt be asking how to build a room that qualifys as a safe I'd be asking where to get a deal on bulk trigger locks!

I know a lot of police departments were giving them away. Much cheaper to build a "regular room", and use locks. You could still put everything in a nice case or on wall racks: http://www.google.com/search?q=gun+...ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

 

[glide]

Go ask the guy in Lowell if it's 'legal'.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

I have always wanted to build a secure gun room as well! I too am curious about the process to satisfy the law as I wouldnt put it past LEO to say "that is jsut a room with a big, lockable door, its still not considered secure storage".


One of these certainly looks cool though!

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/gunsafes/detail.asp?fid=003F&cid=160&tid=39601&bg=x

 

[msdamato]

Seems like there is no difinative answer. Guess I'll talk to my issueing officer when I turn in my C&R app.

 

[el duderino]

I have always wanted to build a secure gun room as well! I too am curious about the process to satisfy the law as I wouldnt put it past LEO to say "that is jsut a room with a big, lockable door, its still not considered secure storage".


One of these certainly looks cool though!

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/gunsafes/detail.asp?fid=003F&cid=160&tid=39601&bg=x

How do gunshops get away with it then?

 

[OfficerObie59]

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131L

As I interpret that, you can get by with storing all of your guns (without trigger locks or cases) and ammo in one locked closet (or in your case, gun room), providing the ammo is in ammo cans or some other container strong enough to satisfy the additional fire safety regulations of 527 CMR 13.04.

I'd say all you need is a secure lock on the door of your gun room. I am not, however, a lawyer.

Courtesy of Westlaw headnotes:

Defendant's bedroom was not a “securely locked container,” for purposes of statute criminalizing improper storage of a firearm, which statute required firearms to be “secured in a locked container”; use of word “secured” indicated that container had to be not merely locked, but securely locked, statute required firearms to be maintained in locked containers in way that would deter all but most persistent from gaining access, and assuming defendant's bedroom was a “container,” for purposes of statute, and that it was locked at time of theft, defendant violated statute because lock was easily defeated by anyone with access to a bobby pin and did not prevent ready access by anyone other than the lawful owner.  Comm. v. Parzick (2005) 835 N.E.2d 1171, 64 Mass.App.Ct. 846, review denied 848 N.E.2d 1212

I've seen this statute read as "a room is not a container". That's not specifically what the case says, but one's best bet to avoid charges is to have trigger locks if they're building a gun room. All your gun needs is a trigger lock. In theory, you could store your guns in racks in your shed, and you meet the requirement of the statute.

The basic foundation of the storage law has nothing to do with preventing theft and everything to do with "its for the children". That's why firearms stored in the closet with police department issued "Project ChildSafe" cable locks easily defeated with $10 bolt cutters satisfy the law. Now, I'm the first one to agree the law more often than not is not applied with the purpose to solely prevent child access, but if you think of it in that vein, the logic of the law becomes a little easier to understand.

BTW, IANAL and you'd be wise to consult one first.

 

[TheRoland]

Courtesy of Westlaw headnotes:I've seen this statute read as "a room is not a container". That's not specifically what the case says, but one's best bet to avoid charges is to have trigger locks if they're building a gun room.

Personally, I'd read that in exactly the opposite; that "secure" is all that prevented the bedroom from being a "secure container", although the court didn't actually say that:

Although our courts have not interpreted the phrase “secured in a locked container,” we have said that the “usual and natural meaning” of “a container is ‘a receptacle (as a box or jar) or a formed or flexible covering for the packing or shipment of articles, goods or commodities' ․ ;  and a receptacle is ‘one that receives and contains something.’ ”  Commonwealth v. Lee, 10 Mass.App.Ct. 518, 523 n. 3, 409 N.E.2d 1311 (1980), quoting from Webster's Third New Intl. Dictionary 491, 1894 (1971).   We assume, without deciding, that a bedroom may constitute a container for purposes of the statute.

If the "Gun Room" was actually secure, I'd personally have no trepidation I was violating the law. But I'm not you, a lawyer, or your lawyer.

 

[SkuaSeptember]

Why would the police be looking around in your basement asking you to open a locked door?

 

[Kicker96FS]

I keep my reloading stuff in a locked room, that way I don't have to put it all away every time I want to go do something else. Guns are in a safe, Ammo is in locked ammo cans, except the ones I am working on (reloading), I would say I am covered.

 

[mrjones]

"and assuming defendant's bedroom was a “container,” for purposes of statute, and that it was locked at time of theft, defendant violated statute because lock was easily defeated by anyone with access to a bobby pin and did not prevent ready access by anyone other than the lawful owner.  Comm. v. Parzick (2005) 835 N.E.2d 1171, 64 Mass.App.Ct. 846, review denied 848 N.E.2d 1212"

Looks to me like the court agrees that his bedroom could have been a container had he properly secured it with a deadbolt lock or something and not just pushed the thumb lock on his doorknob. But like many areas of Massachusetts gun law, we appear to have fallen into another grey area that can be argued in either direction. Anybody want to volunteer to be the test case?

 

[rogzballz]

http://www.rhinovault.com/

 

[msdamato]

Sounds to me like "secured container" is the key. My room will also have a security camera, and I've been looking at locks that notify you by text or email anytime the door is opened. Thease security measures assume your internet and computer are working, but I think it would be one more step twards it being "secure".

 

[fencer]

I am sure you could do it to meet the requirements but it would probably be cheaper to buy a big safe.

If you construct a room that is for all intents and purposes a bank vault, I am sure it would be fine. I think the critical element is the door and it's locking mechanism

 

[gunclinger]

Why would the police be looking around in your basement asking you to open a locked door?

The issue of course if there's a break in or some other incident, and your gun room is part of it. You need to be able to defend that your guns were reasonably (no container is perfect) secure...even more important than the definition of "container".

And whatever you decide I would not ask the "issuing officer" about it...no need divulge any such plans you may have, and it's doubtful he would be an authority on the subject anyway.

How does your LGS get away with it....clearly all their inventory isn't kept in a "secure container" after-hours.

 

[nightpoison]

I am sure you could do it to meet the requirements but it would probably be cheaper to buy a big safe.

I would agree it would be probably cheaper to grab a large gun safe, but the WOW factor of having your own gun vault. If I had the space I would go that route. I don't know about having my reloading equipment in the same space. I think that's a work space sort of thing and I wouldn't want my work space in the same room as all of my firearms. Just for looks, cleaning, and precautionary (knocking things over)

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

 

[mike01824]

Just as a side thought... You can have the most expensive door money can buy, but you also want to take a hard look at securing walls/windows as well.

 

[msdamato]

Just as a side thought... You can have the most expensive door money can buy, but you also want to take a hard look at securing walls/windows as well.

No windows. Two walls are Granite block foundation. The other two walls will have a solid welded sheet of 1/4" sheet metal hidden inside them. I figure with a good door it will be 10x more secure than the cheap lockers I have now.

I am however thinking about ordering a box of keyed alike trigger locks just to be safe.

 

[mike01824]

Sounds like you've thought it out then! My house will def have a gun room, once I buy a house that is...

Are you thinking of buying the trigger locks to simply comply with the law or to actually make a difference in the event of a break-in? IMHO, a trigger lock in the event of a break in isn't going to make any difference because they'll just take them and defeat the lock at home. Food for thought.

 

[mike93lx]

Seems like there is no difinative answer. Guess I'll talk to my issueing officer when I turn in my C&R app.

asking a cop for legal advice is a really, really bad idea.

 

[Len-2A Training]

asking a cop for legal advice is a really, really bad idea.

Absolutely true! Even saw that yesterday listening to the renowned LE expert on MA gun laws! At least two of his statements turn out not to be true.

 

[fencer]

I would agree it would be probably cheaper to grab a large gun safe, but the WOW factor of having your own gun vault. If I had the space I would go that route.

Yeah, you so have to go that route if you can. Complete with bio-metric, hand print, lock or retinal scan. I have a buddy that bought a vacuum tube system from a bank drive through that had closed. I wonder if you could buy a Bank Vault door somewhere? I am sure you can.

While you are at it, you might as well turn it into a panic room/ bomb shelter. Does the wife know that the gun room is going to cost three times what the kitchen costs?

A quick search came up with this - $1600.00 - THIS is your answer

 

[Ninsho]

Whatever you do, don't do rhinovault. I did, it cost me a ton and the workmanship and customer service was horrible. When I took the door apart (in order to fix it since the lock wouldn't unlock from the outside) I found drawer slides and some drilled out nuts holding a rod. Not exactly the professional job you expect for the price.

 

[mark2215]

I've been thinking of going this route lately. My issue is the ceiling. The walls are all solid concrete block and the door is just a matter of buying something but how do I secure the ceiling? Right now it's just a drop ceiling, floor joists, subfloor, and hardwood above that. I can't (easily or practically) do something like bolt steel to the joists because there is too much electrical and plumbing in the way. Any ideas?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I think Officer Obie hit the nail on the head in citing Parzick and it sounds like your plan is more than sufficient. A regular room with a solid-core door and a deadbolt is, in my opinion, more than sufficient to meet the statutory requirement. Seeing someone with a secure room like yours charged with a 131L violation is almost an invitation to overturn 131L.

Do NOT discuss the adequacy of your storage plans with your local police.

While we're talking case law and what constitutes secure storage, I'll remind you of this: A firearm locked in a plastic pistol case in an igloo cooler on the back porch of a home is securely stored for the purposes of 131L. (Lodjko)

Go ask the guy in Lowell if it's 'legal'.

There were no 131L storage charges in this case.

 

[breslau]

I've been thinking of going this route lately. My issue is the ceiling. The walls are all solid concrete block and the door is just a matter of buying something but how do I secure the ceiling? Right now it's just a drop ceiling, floor joists, subfloor, and hardwood above that. I can't (easily or practically) do something like bolt steel to the joists because there is too much electrical and plumbing in the way. Any ideas?

Use chain link fencing secured to the underside of the joists with tension bars drilled for screws. This can also be used in framed walls by staggering 2x4 studs 24” o/c to the inside and outside of 2x6 top and bottom plates with the fencing woven in between.

 

[Fil]

Ive been thinking about the same thing.
Just wondering what you decided on and how you made out?