That might include washing cookware and clothes? Otherwise the minimum is 1 gallon for drinking (per person per day). Not sure if that includes food preparation though.
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Bug out or stay put ?
- Thread starter Twigg
- Start date
That might include washing cookware and clothes? Otherwise the minimum is 1 gallon for drinking (per person per day). Not sure if that includes food preparation though.
I think i will stay put, The water table here is very good, i can hand pump to shelter well is about 30 feet away and water has never been below 20 feet down. stoage of food should last a long time. where the trouble is ,is how to fight off those that want what i have. there is no way they will walk in and take it.should the SHFT we will fight for what we have.Now to BUGOUT to Where? if it is that bad we would just be picked off one by one.NO i will stay and fight.Just a few more bugs to workout we will be fine.
Safety is an illusion. No such thing as safe – regardless of location, preps or defenses. I love when people talk about disasters or economic collapses like it’s something humanity will experience for the first time.
Looking through human history, please tell me what makes any of you think that “government” would disappear post economic collapse. It never does. It simply changes. And nearly always for the worst. Natick or Northern NH or Alaska – it does not matter – if the local/federal authority wants your stuff, they’ll take it. Some of you might think that “people” would let that happen and we all will fight against gov. Sure. We might and we will lose.
Example: Russian civil war. The revolution took place nearly without a single shot fired, but then Russians fought for years over control. Every group imaginable was represented, including Anarchists, Libertarians and Capitalists. They all had cool colors too. Land owners and capitalists and various anti-Bolsheviks were White. Bolshevik were Red. Anarchists were Green, although in Ukraine, mainly comprised of small farmers, they were also known as Black Army. Etc. Etc. There were regional groups and subgroups and sub-subgroups and also what we would call gangs. Some had national inspirations, others only local focus. But sooner or later one government wins power through blood. Often the most brutal, with best propaganda, and appealing to the lowest common denominator win. Bolsheviks were insanely brutal and had some outstanding silver tongue community organizers – no teleprompter needed.![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Sure, it took them a few years to get to “Northern NH”, but when they did… BO meant leaving the country.
There is no safe, but there is self-sufficient. And for me self-sufficient means greater degree of freedom. That is all there is to it.
Looking through human history, please tell me what makes any of you think that “government” would disappear post economic collapse. It never does. It simply changes. And nearly always for the worst. Natick or Northern NH or Alaska – it does not matter – if the local/federal authority wants your stuff, they’ll take it. Some of you might think that “people” would let that happen and we all will fight against gov. Sure. We might and we will lose.
Example: Russian civil war. The revolution took place nearly without a single shot fired, but then Russians fought for years over control. Every group imaginable was represented, including Anarchists, Libertarians and Capitalists. They all had cool colors too. Land owners and capitalists and various anti-Bolsheviks were White. Bolshevik were Red. Anarchists were Green, although in Ukraine, mainly comprised of small farmers, they were also known as Black Army. Etc. Etc. There were regional groups and subgroups and sub-subgroups and also what we would call gangs. Some had national inspirations, others only local focus. But sooner or later one government wins power through blood. Often the most brutal, with best propaganda, and appealing to the lowest common denominator win. Bolsheviks were insanely brutal and had some outstanding silver tongue community organizers – no teleprompter needed.
Sure, it took them a few years to get to “Northern NH”, but when they did… BO meant leaving the country. There is no safe, but there is self-sufficient. And for me self-sufficient means greater degree of freedom. That is all there is to it.
You have never met my Wife!
When technology shuts down and there are no ATMs, food stores, or other conveniences, it'll take less than 24 hours before the hoards of looters finish the nearest cities and head for the burbs. That's where they'll pillage and find food, water, and ammo which they will take en masse without regard to the original owners. And, there will be a lot of 'em. They’ll coalesce together as a hoard, leaders will emerge, and they’ll ride whatever they can find that has fuel looking for easy pickings. Really! You don’t think that’s going to happen in a serious collapse? If you don’t then God bless your faith in your fellow man.
As for government intervention or security, it's a myth. Most of them will be trying to get back to their own homes their jobs be damned. Wouldn't you in a situation like that? Would you want to leave your wife and two kids undefended when the SHTF and there's no power? In the bigger towns, maybe there would be some type of confiscation but it would be from the remaining suppliers like grocery stores or guns shops and the like. They won't know who has prepped for quite a while; only after quite a bit of time has elapsed and the initial wave of panic has come and gone. I'm not worried at all about what's going to be left of the law enforcement but I am extremely concerned about the hoards.
Staying in our current home location would not be an option. If there were NO bad guy tsunamis coming, sure. We could easily survive comfortably for pretty much any extended time. But if you think for one single second that you will be left alone in what’s left of polite society then you’re delusional. For every prepper out there are thousands of people who live with their ‘normalcy bias’. Every day will be the same as before for them so they don’t have to even think about a financial collapse or any other major event that would seriously affect their lives. Then it happens and they don’t even have batteries for their flashlights. They are fodder for the masses and will unfortunately pay for their total ignorance.
So, we’ve devised a plan where five families (all grown adults) will rally at one of the homes only about 5 miles from my home but much further into the open country. Food has been put up there and we’ll all also contribute what we also have in our own stashes. We'll have a well. We all shoot and are excellent shots (all hunters) and we all have ammo and plenty of rifles in the proper caliber. We have medical covered. One side of the home is abutted to 100 acres of clear cut corn field which , even if standing, is a barrier. The other 3 sides are easily defended as there are no homes across their road and there’s an easy ‘killing field” easily ¼ wide on either the left or right side. The house is 3 stories tall, too, and the view is unobstructed. We’re all bringing something to the table talent-wise and would easily be able to defend perimeter for an extended time……long enough, anyway, to give any bad guys second thoughts about continuing a confrontation when there are so easy pickings elsewhere and there's enough of us to be able to setup a watch 24/7. It certainly won't be easy but we will survive the initial onslaught and live to make it so we can become comfortable in our new lives until a reset occurs....if it does.
Bugging out? It’s a fantasy unless you’ve made hard plans with good communications and an agreed upon general purpose to gather together. All you have to do is read any of the really outstanding novels out there that have accurately defined people under a major duress. All you have to do is look at what happened in the short 8 or 9 days back in October around here to understand how poorly so many have prepared for no power. Look at the cities when they go black for just a day or two. That’s the flood I’d be most concerned about.
Rome
As for government intervention or security, it's a myth. Most of them will be trying to get back to their own homes their jobs be damned. Wouldn't you in a situation like that? Would you want to leave your wife and two kids undefended when the SHTF and there's no power? In the bigger towns, maybe there would be some type of confiscation but it would be from the remaining suppliers like grocery stores or guns shops and the like. They won't know who has prepped for quite a while; only after quite a bit of time has elapsed and the initial wave of panic has come and gone. I'm not worried at all about what's going to be left of the law enforcement but I am extremely concerned about the hoards.
Staying in our current home location would not be an option. If there were NO bad guy tsunamis coming, sure. We could easily survive comfortably for pretty much any extended time. But if you think for one single second that you will be left alone in what’s left of polite society then you’re delusional. For every prepper out there are thousands of people who live with their ‘normalcy bias’. Every day will be the same as before for them so they don’t have to even think about a financial collapse or any other major event that would seriously affect their lives. Then it happens and they don’t even have batteries for their flashlights. They are fodder for the masses and will unfortunately pay for their total ignorance.
So, we’ve devised a plan where five families (all grown adults) will rally at one of the homes only about 5 miles from my home but much further into the open country. Food has been put up there and we’ll all also contribute what we also have in our own stashes. We'll have a well. We all shoot and are excellent shots (all hunters) and we all have ammo and plenty of rifles in the proper caliber. We have medical covered. One side of the home is abutted to 100 acres of clear cut corn field which , even if standing, is a barrier. The other 3 sides are easily defended as there are no homes across their road and there’s an easy ‘killing field” easily ¼ wide on either the left or right side. The house is 3 stories tall, too, and the view is unobstructed. We’re all bringing something to the table talent-wise and would easily be able to defend perimeter for an extended time……long enough, anyway, to give any bad guys second thoughts about continuing a confrontation when there are so easy pickings elsewhere and there's enough of us to be able to setup a watch 24/7. It certainly won't be easy but we will survive the initial onslaught and live to make it so we can become comfortable in our new lives until a reset occurs....if it does.
Bugging out? It’s a fantasy unless you’ve made hard plans with good communications and an agreed upon general purpose to gather together. All you have to do is read any of the really outstanding novels out there that have accurately defined people under a major duress. All you have to do is look at what happened in the short 8 or 9 days back in October around here to understand how poorly so many have prepared for no power. Look at the cities when they go black for just a day or two. That’s the flood I’d be most concerned about.
Rome
namedpipes
NES Member
el duderino said:
Assless chaps !? I think you may have some deep seated subconscious issues lol jk. Maybe not the same as a "mad max" (which could be fun) scenario, but these occupiers mixed with the innate need for some folks to riot, I think its a real concearn...
inerlogic
NES Member
it's tought enough to get to fairhaven from where i live in NB.... i'm staying put...
then i'm sniping all the hood rats (something i've been wanting to do for decades)
nasa released a flood survey.... i don't have a link handy.... my house is about 70' above sea level, but apparently a 6m rise in the ocean level will bring buzzard's bay ACTUALLY to my back door....
so, here's to global warming and ocean front property!
then i'm sniping all the hood rats (something i've been wanting to do for decades)
nasa released a flood survey.... i don't have a link handy.... my house is about 70' above sea level, but apparently a 6m rise in the ocean level will bring buzzard's bay ACTUALLY to my back door....
so, here's to global warming and ocean front property!
45collector
NES Member
I'm just planning on eating all the people I don't like if the world goes to hell. Gets rid of a**h***s/ keeps population down/ keeps food in my stomach... WINWINWIN.
namedpipes
NES Member
I seem to be a fountain of links today. You aren't the first to think of people as an alternative food source:
http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html
namedpipes said:
Ewwie ewweeeweeee .... I don't think it matters where I live in taunton.if the shtf im screwed. Unless i have a good warning pre disaster, the riots will keep me from bugging out. Ill be in full on hide/defense mode.
It is so true that to BI offers a great set of challenges, if the masses want what you have and burn you out, they get nothing. Also, the best defense is a solid offense for no place has ever truly been defended, it just procrastinates the ultimate end for the defenders. If you live in a decent neighborhood, everyone has a common goal, survival, don't wait until the dollar is crashing and people are jumping out of windows due to their lost fortunes. Know who has a vested interest in what they have and do not want to be chum and torture material for the gangs. Attack the bad guys and kill them first.
Living here in Northern CT, it was always a plan of ours to grab our gear, load up the van, hook up the prepped tag-along trailer, and head North into the mountains should a SHTF scenario ever actually occur. We'd establish ourselves as best we could and turn everything we've come to know into reality in order to survive as the initial onslaught went on in the cities and eventually the suburbs. Maybe, after a short time we could return. In the meantime we'd have to survive on our supplies and our ability to forage and survive the New England winter. That was pretty much our plan. We figured that VT would be the best place to crawl to if possible. But there are plenty of isolated areas between here and there to "get lost" in.
Then, during the ensuing couple of years of reading, talking to others of a like mind, and being educated on the realities of life during and after a shtf occurrence, it became pretty clear that my idea was a fantasy and not grounded in reality. The truth is that few, if any of us, could literally live off the land in a cabin or camping setup isolated deep in any forest that would be open to our retreat. Even if we were left unaccosted we would struggle even with our knowledge of isolated survival and there were too many "what ifs" to contend with that might kill us. What if we couldn't find water? What if we couldn't find enough small game or are able to keep warm enough. What if one of us was wounded or injured? Nope. We had to focus on the reality of a terrible situation and that would require more of a team approach. Fortunately we have something to work with and we have now a plan that can work. Whether or not it does is another thing entirely but it's a start.
Let me close by saying this, too. There's a fine line here that is hard to not cross. My wife even said to me once that it's almost like I want this bad stuff to happen because I was so determined to pursue as much information and equipment as I felt was needed. I told her that that was the farthest thing from my mind. I was simply preparing for a situation that, if it were to occur, would require more than a small suitcase and clean underwear for a few days. What brought it all to a point was, again, the October storm. That event put a lot of things into perspective. When you experience no power or technology for a few days with no way of knowing when things will return to normal, life after a shth event become a bit more real. Surviving an extended period of time has to be rationally planned for. Doing it all by yourself is difficult if not impossible in a BO situation. It’s another thing entirely if you plan to BI. It will come down to defending your supplies, however, and two people are just not enough to do that, imho, unless you are already in the middle of nowhere right now.
Rome
Then, during the ensuing couple of years of reading, talking to others of a like mind, and being educated on the realities of life during and after a shtf occurrence, it became pretty clear that my idea was a fantasy and not grounded in reality. The truth is that few, if any of us, could literally live off the land in a cabin or camping setup isolated deep in any forest that would be open to our retreat. Even if we were left unaccosted we would struggle even with our knowledge of isolated survival and there were too many "what ifs" to contend with that might kill us. What if we couldn't find water? What if we couldn't find enough small game or are able to keep warm enough. What if one of us was wounded or injured? Nope. We had to focus on the reality of a terrible situation and that would require more of a team approach. Fortunately we have something to work with and we have now a plan that can work. Whether or not it does is another thing entirely but it's a start.
Let me close by saying this, too. There's a fine line here that is hard to not cross. My wife even said to me once that it's almost like I want this bad stuff to happen because I was so determined to pursue as much information and equipment as I felt was needed. I told her that that was the farthest thing from my mind. I was simply preparing for a situation that, if it were to occur, would require more than a small suitcase and clean underwear for a few days. What brought it all to a point was, again, the October storm. That event put a lot of things into perspective. When you experience no power or technology for a few days with no way of knowing when things will return to normal, life after a shth event become a bit more real. Surviving an extended period of time has to be rationally planned for. Doing it all by yourself is difficult if not impossible in a BO situation. It’s another thing entirely if you plan to BI. It will come down to defending your supplies, however, and two people are just not enough to do that, imho, unless you are already in the middle of nowhere right now.
Rome
