Bug out bags.... and the guns you put in them

[jkelly1229]

Didn't read the replies, so maybe someone covered this. Mainly, you need water. Period. Depending on how far you work from home, 1 or 2 MRE's if you are talking 30-60 miles. All that 'hardware' in your bag adds weight. When was the last time you walked more than a mile with 20 lbs on your back?

Plan on actually covering 10, maybe 20 miles in a day. I don't care how 'in shape' you are.

As for 'firearms', the whole point will be to avoid any interaction with ANYONE. More than likely, anyone armed will have you outnumbered and know the area of ambush better than you. Chances of survival, almost zero.

My experience? I chased people in the desert for 8 years. When you are trying to 'not be seen' you will move slower. You will have to double back and go around. When I evaced for Ida, I brought ONE pistol, one mag in it, and a big stick 33 rounder for the 'oh shit' that I couldn't avoid, I'm good with a pistol to 100 yards on a human sized target, but at those distances running is a better choice. I was driving a car and planned to use that as my weapon of choice, or my chance to GTFO. People die from lack of water way more than anything else when in bad situations. We burned through water faster than I ever imagined. I found groups with food for days, but no water, bodies all over the place, dead.

As for 'rolling deep' with AR's and plates, unless you are straight our of boot camp, that is weight you could use for food or the essential water. Maybe you could get away with one of those 'camp filters'. But that implies you find water no one else has found and isn't guarding. I never served in any infantry, but I've never heard a 'good' boot camp forced march in full battle rattle story.

Im sticking to a road so there isn't much chance of avoiding people. I have an infant i spend half my day carrying an awkward 30 pounds.

Your right added weight sucks but there's no avoidance some times

 

[PappyM3]

Didn't read the replies, so maybe someone covered this. Mainly, you need water. Period. Depending on how far you work from home, 1 or 2 MRE's if you are talking 30-60 miles. All that 'hardware' in your bag adds weight. When was the last time you walked more than a mile with 20 lbs on your back?

Plan on actually covering 10, maybe 20 miles in a day. I don't care how 'in shape' you are.

As for 'firearms', the whole point will be to avoid any interaction with ANYONE. More than likely, anyone armed will have you outnumbered and know the area of ambush better than you. Chances of survival, almost zero.

My experience? I chased people in the desert for 8 years. When you are trying to 'not be seen' you will move slower. You will have to double back and go around. When I evaced for Ida, I brought ONE pistol, one mag in it, and a big stick 33 rounder for the 'oh shit' that I couldn't avoid, I'm good with a pistol to 100 yards on a human sized target, but at those distances running is a better choice. I was driving a car and planned to use that as my weapon of choice, or my chance to GTFO. People die from lack of water way more than anything else when in bad situations. We burned through water faster than I ever imagined. I found groups with food for days, but no water, bodies all over the place, dead.

As for 'rolling deep' with AR's and plates, unless you are straight our of boot camp, that is weight you could use for food or the essential water. Maybe you could get away with one of those 'camp filters'. But that implies you find water no one else has found and isn't guarding. I never served in any infantry, but I've never heard a 'good' boot camp forced march in full battle rattle story.

I doubt it. My guess would be exposure. In a desert environment? Yeah probably water is the leading cause. But for the rest of the country? Exposure.

You might be able to get away with just bringing water if you’re some place that always has perfect weather. Otherwise, you need a tarp or rescue blanket, cordage, and some fire starting tools. Having a couple BICs is the cheapest and easiest if you don’t want to bring ferro rod and other stuff as a backup.

As for packs, I’m terribly out of shape compared to my infantry days, but can still carry a 50lb pack for a good distance. Anybody without medical complications should be able to carry 35lbs for a few days, let alone 20 pounds. 20 miles in a day is probably stretching it though for those not accustomed to rucking, but it’s all about not having a shit pack and just getting through the suck. Mind over matter. Much easier in Florida where everything is flat, however.

 

[PappyM3]

Im sticking to a road so there isn't much chance of avoiding people. I have an infant i spend half my day carrying an awkward 30 pounds.

Your right added weight sucks but there's no avoidance some times

You have a 30lb infant?!

 

[jkelly1229]

You have a 30lb infant?!

Hes a goddamn moose lol

Hes 16 months 30 lbs 31 in

 

[Soundwave]

I doubt it. My guess would be exposure. In a desert environment? Yeah probably water is the leading cause. But for the rest of the country? Exposure.

You might be able to get away with just bringing water if you’re some place that always has perfect weather. Otherwise, you need a tarp or rescue blanket, cordage, and some fire starting tools. Having a couple BICs is the cheapest and easiest if you don’t want to bring ferro rod and other stuff as a backup.

As for packs, I’m terribly out of shape compared to my infantry days, but can still carry a 50lb pack for a good distance. Anybody without medical complications should be able to carry 35lbs for a few days, let alone 20 pounds. 20 miles in a day is probably stretching it though for those not accustomed to rucking, but it’s all about not having a shit pack and just getting through the suck. Mind over matter. Much easier in Florida where everything is flat, however.

Which brings me back to...what packs are you guys using and/or suggesting? Mine ends up being more of a car bag that I can swap to different vehicles if we're traveling to see family. Worst case I can take some crap out if we actually have to walk somewhere.

 

[weekendracer]

I doubt it. My guess would be exposure. In a desert environment? Yeah probably water is the leading cause. But for the rest of the country? Exposure.

You might be able to get away with just bringing water if you’re some place that always has perfect weather. Otherwise, you need a tarp or rescue blanket, cordage, and some fire starting tools. Having a couple BICs is the cheapest and easiest if you don’t want to bring ferro rod and other stuff as a backup.

As for packs, I’m terribly out of shape compared to my infantry days, but can still carry a 50lb pack for a good distance. Anybody without medical complications should be able to carry 35lbs for a few days, let alone 20 pounds. 20 miles in a day is probably stretching it though for those not accustomed to rucking, but it’s all about not having a shit pack and just getting through the suck. Mind over matter. Much easier in Florida where everything is flat, however.

Meh, I respectfully disagree with most of this, unless we are specifically talking winter months. I just noticed he's talking Florida, so I feel better about my first argument. You're going to sweat, I doubt most people deal with the stressors that would be involved in such a situation. I just went through a pretty bad situation, but as bad as it was, I only had to drive an hour or two and I was back in normal civilization. No matter how bad the situation, normalcy bias will be in effect during the time frame the OP is talking about. Street thugs will be out, sure, but not Mad Max. Again, this isn't talking about a 'forced march', this will be more of SERE (I think is the acronym) school environment. Once you are thirsty, your performance will diminish. Yes, 'you' may be better at dealing with it, I know nothing of the OP, so I assume 'Joe Ordinary', not Tier 1 operator.

A bag for winter I'd be more concerned about the elements. Getting wet isn't a big deal for a day. I'd also consider moving almost constantly until home, resting occasionally to never reach full on 'can't move' exhaustion. The groups I chased stopped about every mile or so, it allowed them to travel 20+ miles a day for days on end. The main difference is these people are from countries where cars aren't generally owned by the poor, they walk everywhere, all the time. Most Americans simply don't do that anymore.

Oh, one more thing. I'd pack a GOOD pair of worn in boots over a gun. My main point is not to overthink and overpack for something you will need to move quick and silent. Even if we are talking a state level type event, the main point is just to get home, get family safe, institute whatever plan of action you need to. Besides, I bet 'most' people can't walk 20 miles with NO pack, with support (like a marathon), without being in terrible shape the next day.

 

[Grendizer138]

Which brings me back to...what packs are you guys using and/or suggesting? Mine ends up being more of a car bag that I can swap to different vehicles if we're traveling to see family. Worst case I can take some crap out if we actually have to walk somewhere.

Personally, I’d rather have an extra pair of wool socks in my pack than a gun.

I have this. Not something I’d hike the Whites with, but durable, just the right size for essentials, and US-made.

T.H.E. Pack E.D.C., BK | SPEC-OPS BRAND

specops.us

 

[jkelly1229]

Which brings me back to...what packs are you guys using and/or suggesting? Mine ends up being more of a car bag that I can swap to different vehicles if we're traveling to see family. Worst case I can take some crap out if we actually have to walk somewhere.

I just have an old husky bag r/n thats super heavy duty

 

[weekendracer]

Im sticking to a road so there isn't much chance of avoiding people. I have an infant i spend half my day carrying an awkward 30 pounds.

Your right added weight sucks but there's no avoidance some times

Reading this, no joking, find a grocery store on your route, pack some old grungy clothes, grab a shopping cart and fill it with trash (paper). Become the grey man, maybe talk to yourself if someone gets too close .

For a while, I had a local electric company get up. When doing surveillance, I'd have the shirt on and the hard hat in the seat next to me. I figured in a TEOTWAWKI situation, I'd play power company guy trying to get the power back on to get home.

 

[weekendracer]

I spent a LOT of time in a truck alone over 21 years. You want a contingency plan for something? Brah, I got ya covered.

 

[jkelly1229]

I spent a LOT of time in a truck alone over 21 years. You want a contingency plan for something? Brah, I got ya covered.

I spend a ton of time alone in my office staring at a wall lmao

 

[Broc]

Hes a goddamn moose lol

Hes 16 months 30 lbs 31 in

Let me know when he gets older, he should come play with Rugby. We are creating a youth program (COVID f*cked it up, but we are starting again).

 

[PappyM3]

Which brings me back to...what packs are you guys using and/or suggesting? Mine ends up being more of a car bag that I can swap to different vehicles if we're traveling to see family. Worst case I can take some crap out if we actually have to walk somewhere.

My get home bag is actually just a black non-descript Vertx sling bag because I don’t have much in it (what I listed before)

If you want a small and discreet pack, but want two straps instead of a sling, the LBT 14l low vis day pack is nice. It could use an internal frame sheet to stiffen it, but I use one as diaper bag. It is very well constructed and is sized very well for a get home bag. I wouldn’t overload it with weight though, because it has no belt and no rigid back. It seems they now sell a rigid removable sheet for internal pouch attachments and organization that I may try out.

But my normal hiking pack is what I’d throw in the car if we needed to evac our house. It’s a Mystery Ranch Scree and is perfect for short term needs. The yoke and belt are very comfortable and it’s not a heavy pack. 15-20lbs is probably it’s sweet spot, and should be enough for just about any needs with this size pack. I’ve put 30lbs in it before to test it and it was fine, but once you get above 30, you’ll want to look at a bit beefier packs.

 

[Broc]

I doubt it. My guess would be exposure. In a desert environment? Yeah probably water is the leading cause. But for the rest of the country? Exposure.

You might be able to get away with just bringing water if you’re some place that always has perfect weather. Otherwise, you need a tarp or rescue blanket, cordage, and some fire starting tools. Having a couple BICs is the cheapest and easiest if you don’t want to bring ferro rod and other stuff as a backup.

As for packs, I’m terribly out of shape compared to my infantry days, but can still carry a 50lb pack for a good distance. Anybody without medical complications should be able to carry 35lbs for a few days, let alone 20 pounds. 20 miles in a day is probably stretching it though for those not accustomed to rucking, but it’s all about not having a shit pack and just getting through the suck. Mind over matter. Much easier in Florida where everything is flat, however.

I think 35lbs is the perfect weight for a multi day hike. I carry around 35lbs when I go on 5 days 60+ mile hikes with most of it going up and down mountains.

Once you dial your load to the essentials, then people have to start buying quality to go down in weight.

For example, my 2 people tent + 15 degree (real 15 degree) sleeping bag, and my 70L backpack combined weight around 5lbs. And my sleeping bag fits in a bag the size of a water bottle.

Those are usually the 3 heaviest items besides water. Most military surplus bags will weight around 5lbs if you find a light one.

Of course, I had to pay for the weight reduction, but I can carry more water. Being thirsty as f*ck, tired and walking up a mountain is a horrible feeling.

The other thing people don't consider is fit. A bag needs to fit properly or you will put a lot of weight on your shoulders which will eventually lead you to be tired AF and hurting.

Final, one of the mostmimportant parts ...

load your pack with the same amount of weight you would carry, and go walk the Harvard stadium. Try to make it up and down the small steps of each section, all the way around. You will soon find out how out of shape you are, if your pack needs to lose weight and if it fits properly or not. Too many people say wdight is not an issue because they carry it from their house to the car and in their mind they are strong AF, but they never tried to go up and down 3K+ steps with that weight.

 

[jkelly1229]

Let me know when he gets older, he should come play with Rugby. We are creating a youth program (COVID f*cked it up, but we are starting again).

Lol you started the infant rugby program next to toddler fight club?

But yeah im pumped for him to start playing sports although hes gunna be too big for football i think

 

[Soundwave]

My get home bag is actually just a black non-descript Vertx sling bag because I don’t have much in it (what I listed before)

If you want a small and discreet pack, but want two straps instead of a sling, the LBT 14l low vis day pack is nice. It could use an internal frame sheet to stiffen it, but I use one as diaper bag. It is very well constructed and is sized very well for a get home bag. I wouldn’t overload it with weight though, because it has no belt and no rigid back. It seems they now sell a rigid removable sheet for internal pouch attachments and organization that I may try out.

But my normal hiking pack is what I’d throw in the car if we needed to evac our house. It’s a Mystery Ranch Scree and is perfect for short term needs. The yoke and belt are very comfortable and it’s not a heavy pack. 15-20lbs is probably it’s sweet spot, and should be enough for just about any needs with this size pack. I’ve put 30lbs in it before to test it and it was fine, but once you get above 30, you’ll want to look at a bit beefier packs.

Mystery ranch has been coming in a lot in my searches. May just scoop up one of their smaller ones.

 

[Broc]

Lol you started the infant rugby program next to toddler fight club?

But yeah im pumped for him to start playing sports although hes gunna be too big for football i think

LOL, toddler fighting club, I like that idea.

There is no such thing as "too big" for a contact sport.

 

[jkelly1229]

LOL, toddler fighting club, I like that idea.

There is no such thing as "too big" for a contact sport.

There definitely is in peewees lol i went to school with a kid who was 6 ft 250 in 5th grade.... they never let him play

 

[PappyM3]

Mystery ranch has been coming in a lot in my searches. May just scoop up one of their smaller ones.

The Tri-zip isn’t to everyone’s taste, but I like it for civilian uses.

Meh, I respectfully disagree with most of this, unless we are specifically talking winter months. I just noticed he's talking Florida, so I feel better about my first argument. You're going to sweat, I doubt most people deal with the stressors that would be involved in such a situation. I just went through a pretty bad situation, but as bad as it was, I only had to drive an hour or two and I was back in normal civilization. No matter how bad the situation, normalcy bias will be in effect during the time frame the OP is talking about. Street thugs will be out, sure, but not Mad Max. Again, this isn't talking about a 'forced march', this will be more of SERE (I think is the acronym) school environment. Once you are thirsty, your performance will diminish. Yes, 'you' may be better at dealing with it, I know nothing of the OP, so I assume 'Joe Ordinary', not Tier 1 operator.

A bag for winter I'd be more concerned about the elements. Getting wet isn't a big deal for a day. I'd also consider moving almost constantly until home, resting occasionally to never reach full on 'can't move' exhaustion. The groups I chased stopped about every mile or so, it allowed them to travel 20+ miles a day for days on end. The main difference is these people are from countries where cars aren't generally owned by the poor, they walk everywhere, all the time. Most Americans simply don't do that anymore.

Oh, one more thing. I'd pack a GOOD pair of worn in boots over a gun. My main point is not to overthink and overpack for something you will need to move quick and silent. Even if we are talking a state level type event, the main point is just to get home, get family safe, institute whatever plan of action you need to. Besides, I bet 'most' people can't walk 20 miles with NO pack, with support (like a marathon), without being in terrible shape the next day.

As I said, 20 miles is stretching it. But 20 lbs carried in a pack over a few to 10 miles is really not a big deal to the majority of people. Unless you’re climbing mountains or going over very hilly terrain. You don’t need to be a tier 1 or 2 operator, or even a janitor 2nd class. Personally though, a “get home” bag, likely wouldn’t and shouldn’t exceed 10 lbs.

Yes, water is important. Especially if you’re in an area where there isn’t any. In New England and probably Florida, you have plenty of water available as long as you have a filter/processing method, and a sillcock key helps. Yes, have a filled water bottle if you can, and several if you’re in the desert. I am not saying water isn’t critical.

But exposure to weather can kill you much faster than dehydration. It doesn’t need to be the winter for you to get hypothermia. People get hypothermia in the summer. Don’t forget the rule of threes. 3 hours without shelter, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food. Yes, Florida weather almost certainly won’t kill you in 3 hours. But having a survival blanket in your get home bag is a no brainer. It weighs almost nothing. Same with a couple bic lighters and some chemical tinder.

 

[PappyM3]

Final, one of the mostmimportant parts ...

load your pack with the same amount of weight you would carry, and go walk the Harvard stadium. Try to make it up and down the small steps of each section, all the way around. You will soon find out how out of shape you are, if your pack needs to lose weight and if it fits properly or not. Too many people say wdight is not an issue because they carry it from their house to the car and in their mind they are strong AF, but they never tried to go up and down 3K+ steps with that weight.

Yes, going up steep verticals is a gut check for sure. Lots of people have problems with that even with no weight. But walking on mostly level ground with an occasional hill doesn’t get a whole lot harder when you add some weight on your shoulders/waist.

 

[Broc]

There definitely is in peewees lol i went to school with a kid who was 6 ft 250 in 5th grade.... they never let him play

Holy sh*t.

Reminds me of a dude that just joined the team. Straight out of HS, he is 18, 6'8", around 260lbs. Young and full of energy. I am glad I won't have to tackle him.

Anyway, if your kid gets that big there is always Rugby. The people are awesome.

 

[Broc]

Yes, going up steep verticals is a gut check for sure. Lots of people have problems with that even with no weight. But walking on mostly level ground with an occasional hill doesn’t get a whole lot harder when you add some weight on your shoulders/waist.

But we live in New England, roads go up and down. Better to be in too good of shape than not in shape. After all, isn't a bug out bag a bag that people keep for a worse case scenario?- couldn't that scenario include going up and down a few hills?

But I agree, it is easier to carry more weight on a fairly easy road.

 

[Knob Creek]

Years ago when my wife was working in Boston I put together a Get Home Bag for her. With the assumption she's have to get down 18 floors of her building and travel 60 miles home with possibly no public transportation. The bag first of all had a non-tactical look to it. Included were hammer, pry bar, water, energy bars, maps, rain gear, socks, bear spray (not pepper spray), knife, matches and lighters, flashlight, head lamp and extra batteries, spare pair of glasses, small First Aid kit, battery pack for cell phone, extra ammunition and magazines for her carry gun.

 

[jkelly1229]

There definitely is in peewees lol i went to school with a kid who was 6 ft 250 in 5th grade.... they never let him play

He ended up 6'6 375 in high school

Complete gentle giant of a kid. And the coaches tried to get him to play in high school but he just didnt have it in him


But he was a big boy

 

[murf4321]

There definitely is in peewees lol i went to school with a kid who was 6 ft 250 in 5th grade.... they never let him play

Yep. My parents never let me play Pop Warner because my weight when I was a fat slob kid put me over the limit so I would of had to play with people significantly older.

I should have told the program director that I identified as a skinny person.

 

[weekendracer]

There definitely is in peewees lol i went to school with a kid who was 6 ft 250 in 5th grade.... they never let him play

Down here those kids get 'no tackle' jerseys. They can play, but can't tackle. My buddy showed me a video of his kid doing tackle drills. The poor tackle dummy went completely horizontal before his kid drove him into the ground. It hurt me just watching.

 

[PappyM3]

Years ago when my wife was working in Boston I put together a Get Home Bag for her. With the assumption she's have to get down 18 floors of her building and travel 60 miles home with possibly no public transportation. The bag first of all had a non-tactical look to it. Included were hammer, pry bar, water, energy bars, maps, rain gear, socks, bear spray (not pepper spray), knife, matches and lighters, flashlight, head lamp and extra batteries, spare pair of glasses, small First Aid kit, battery pack for cell phone, extra ammunition and magazines for her carry gun.

If you and her are willing to have the weight for a hammer and pry bar, consider consolidation: 15 in FATMAX® FuBar® Utility Bar

They have an 18” version too.

Or Vaughan Rage™ 15" Demolition Tool, but I don’t know about the Vaughan’s durability.

 

[weekendracer]

The Tri-zip isn’t to everyone’s taste, but I like it for civilian uses.

As I said, 20 miles is stretching it. But 20 lbs carried in a pack over a few to 10 miles is really not a big deal to the majority of people. Unless you’re climbing mountains or going over very hilly terrain. You don’t need to be a tier 1 or 2 operator, or even a janitor 2nd class. Personally though, a “get home” bag, likely wouldn’t and shouldn’t exceed 10 lbs.

Yes, water is important. Especially if you’re in an area where there isn’t any. In New England and probably Florida, you have plenty of water available as long as you have a filter/processing method, and a sillcock key helps. Yes, have a filled water bottle if you can, and several if you’re in the desert. I am not saying water isn’t critical.

But exposure to weather can kill you much faster than dehydration. It doesn’t need to be the winter for you to get hypothermia. People get hypothermia in the summer. Don’t forget the rule of threes. 3 hours without shelter, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food. Yes, Florida weather almost certainly won’t kill you in 3 hours. But having a survival blanket in your get home bag is a no brainer. It weighs almost nothing. Same with a couple bic lighters and some chemical tinder.

I remember back in the 90's a bunch of Rangers died to hypothermia in Florida while doing some kind of training. I mentioned it to a friend, turns out he was an officer in the Rangers, said the coldest he'd ever been was in the Florida swamps. But he was there for days.

At the weight you are talking, I think its doable over the short to medium 'hike' home. I think most people would be pretty pooped at the end of it when there's going to be more work to do. Even if it was just a power grid issue. I just don't think a fire would be necessary unless a particularly cold snap hit in Florida or anywhere in the south. I don't have a huge issue with one of those blankets or a poncho rain suit to stay dry.

 

[AHM]

A bag for winter I'd be more concerned about the elements. Getting wet isn't a big deal for a day. ...

Being physically wet is one thing.
But (as you know), wearing wet cotton in even mild cold/windy weather will get you killed.


On the other hand, why carry "cordage" while bugging out?
Anyone wasting time putting up a tarp is glamping -
not fleeing the end of the world.

The heat loss lying on the ground makes having a tarp instead of wearing a hat pointless.
And any lightweight tarp will be roached by the end of the night.
If rain gear plus the space blanket isn't enough "shelter",
hide in or under something.

The other thing people don't consider is fit. A bag needs to fit properly or you will put a lot of weight on your shoulders which will eventually lead you to be tired AF and hurting.

It is quite likely that a get-home bag ought to be a modestly-sized quality knapsack.

But if packing stupid weights of gear,
shoulders have no business bearing a load.

That doesn't mean a full pack should be ill-fitting,
which is what you were getting at.
But carrying too much weight in a pack mandates a hip strap.
The solution here is to not carry too much weight.
The Gray Man doesn't walk down the street wearing a frame pack.

Years ago when my wife was working in Boston I put together a Get Home Bag for her. With the assumption she's have to get down 18 floors of her building and travel 60 miles home with possibly no public transportation. The bag first of all had a non-tactical look to it. Included were hammer, pry bar, water, energy bars, maps, rain gear, socks, bear spray (not pepper spray), knife, matches and lighters, flashlight, head lamp and extra batteries, spare pair of glasses, small First Aid kit, battery pack for cell phone, extra ammunition and magazines for her carry gun.

Ernie Pyle reported that during Operation Torch,
the roads out of the landing grounds were lined with GI blankets
discarded contrary to explicit orders by soldiers who said,
"WTF am I carrying this heavy blanket for in a freaking desert?".
Of course those same soldiers froze their asses off on their first night in the desert.

But I hope your wife would have the sense to pitch that hammer and pry bar
as soon as she reached street level
(probably without hammering or prying anything in her office building to get there)
before setting off on the horizontal component of her 60 mile hike.

 

[jkelly1229]

I remember back in the 90's a bunch of Rangers died to hypothermia in Florida while doing some kind of training. I mentioned it to a friend, turns out he was an officer in the Rangers, said the coldest he'd ever been was in the Florida swamps. But he was there for days.

At the weight you are talking, I think its doable over the short to medium 'hike' home. I think most people would be pretty pooped at the end of it when there's going to be more work to do. Even if it was just a power grid issue. I just don't think a fire would be necessary unless a particularly cold snap hit in Florida or anywhere in the south. I don't have a huge issue with one of those blankets or a poncho rain suit to stay dry.

I looked at temps for the past few years here.... 50s during the winter which im sure would suck major donkey balls in ranger school but Im not trying to be josh harnett(pretty boy from black hawk down)... ill stick to the road and camp in the dry spots i know exist if i gotta walk it