Bug out bags.... and the guns you put in them

[Mesatchornug]

But if packing stupid weights of gear,
shoulders have no business bearing a load.

We got into this a bit before, but here's a dude who's actually "been there and done that" professionally for 20+ years who will also say that you're oversimplifying things with this. Because, again, ~20lbs really isn't that much weight.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ6xry6Wj7Y

 

[AHM]

We got into this a bit before, ...

And I bet I'll regret having forgotten that in 3...2...1...

... but here's a dude who's actually "been there and done that" professionally for 20+ years who will also say that you're oversimplifying things with this.

The gear he's talking about bears no resemblance to the Crestone III's we have.

When used as designed, our packs put the vast majority of the load on the hips.

In theory, the equatorial partition on the inside of the hip strap padding
(visible in the starboard strap) is intended to cradle the hips.
I wouldn't swear it's as dramatic as the puffery claims. But it's not nothing.

Until/unless I actually cinch the shoulder straps, the spine has no static load.
I can initially put a couple of fingers between
the top of my shoulders and the shoulder straps.
So the fitness guru going on and on about spinal load falls flat.


The first pack he was demonstrating with is a lot smaller.
It doesn't even come above the shoulders.
Does it even have a frame?


The Gray Man does not wear a Crestone III to get home.
Hell, as a Mountainsmith product it's been criticized as
having so many adjustments flapping that
you look like a shoggoth hiking on the trail.

 

[Mesatchornug]

And I bet I'll regret having forgotten that in 3...2...1...


The gear he's talking about bears no resemblance to the Crestone III's we have.

When used as designed, our packs put the vast majority of the load on the hips.

In theory, the equatorial partition on the inside of the hip strap padding
(visible in the starboard strap) is intended to cradle the hips.
I wouldn't swear it's as dramatic as the puffery claims. But it's not nothing.

Until/unless I actually cinch the shoulder straps, the spine has no static load.
I can initially put a couple of fingers between
the top of my shoulders and the shoulder straps.
So the fitness guru going on and on about spinal load falls flat.


The first pack he was demonstrating with is a lot smaller.
It doesn't even come above the shoulders.
Does it even have a frame?


The Gray Man does not wear a Crestone III to get home.
Hell, as a Mountainsmith product it's been criticized as
having so many adjustments flapping that
you look like a shoggoth hiking on the trail.

I agree your pack is designed exactly that way. As is my primary.

The pack he's using has (IIRC) an internal frame. Similarly, most of the HPG packs are designed as lumbar packs, with internal frames. The traditional Alice pack is an external frame pack designed to the same theory. (My backup/loaner is a civilian pack with an internal frame that is laid out a lot like an Alice). All of them have demonstrate histories of folks carrying some serious weight for no-joke distances.

My point is not that we can't/shouldn't use packs that are designed to carry on our hips for heavy loads, but that our shoulders and backs are far better for it that you seem to think.

The trick, I'd argue, is to use your body correctly for the pack you're using. (We might also take @Broccoli Iglesias' guidance, and actually hit the gym a bit; it'll make everything else easier regardless of the pack we choose.)

 

[AHM]

My point is not that we can't/shouldn't use packs that are designed to carry on our hips for heavy loads, but that our shoulders and backs are far better for it that you seem to think.

Wish I'd wigged to that.

(We might also take @Broccoli Iglesias' guidance, and actually hit the gym a bit; it'll make everything else easier regardless of the pack we choose.)

 

[AHM]

Wish I'd wigged to that.

Failing that, I wish I had the old PantShittingHorror essay
about fragile human shoulders at my fingertips,
to re-evaluate it for a new millennium.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Failing that, I wish I had the old PantShittingHorror essay
about fragile human shoulders at my fingertips,
to re-evaluate it for a new millennium.

Admittedly, after years of hanging out with (and as a) circus performers, coupled with years of professionally exploring ergonomics, I often land somewhere between

and

about some of this.

Pats trusty copy of Humanscale

 

[PappyM3]

We got into this a bit before, but here's a dude who's actually "been there and done that" professionally for 20+ years who will also say that you're oversimplifying things with this. Because, again, ~20lbs really isn't that much weight.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ6xry6Wj7Y

And I bet I'll regret having forgotten that in 3...2...1...


The gear he's talking about bears no resemblance to the Crestone III's we have.

When used as designed, our packs put the vast majority of the load on the hips.

In theory, the equatorial partition on the inside of the hip strap padding
(visible in the starboard strap) is intended to cradle the hips.
I wouldn't swear it's as dramatic as the puffery claims. But it's not nothing.

Until/unless I actually cinch the shoulder straps, the spine has no static load.
I can initially put a couple of fingers between
the top of my shoulders and the shoulder straps.
So the fitness guru going on and on about spinal load falls flat.


The first pack he was demonstrating with is a lot smaller.
It doesn't even come above the shoulders.
Does it even have a frame?


The Gray Man does not wear a Crestone III to get home.
Hell, as a Mountainsmith product it's been criticized as
having so many adjustments flapping that
you look like a shoggoth hiking on the trail.

Military rucking and civilian hiking/packs are different trains of thought, and have different needs.

Mesatchornug: military rucks generally don’t have as tall of a yoke and aren’t ideal for getting the weight onto the hips. Further, it’s not ideal to do that in the military because you likely need to keep your waist free for belt kit / LBE. Civilians don’t need to worry about that and can take advantage of the hips.

AHM: That ruck may look small, but it’s an ALICE ruck with a metal frame and they routinely have 85lbs in them. Sometimes up to 125lbs. They are seriously used.

But the reality for most civilians I think is in the middle. It’s my opinion that, when possible, weight should be born on both shoulders and hips. Talk to any street cop who’s been on the force a while and they will tell you all about their body pains from having so much weight on their hips with the duty belt. Many request to be able to wear vest solutions for holding their duty gear. Similarly with the shoulders, soldiers constantly complain about the pain of body armor and all the weight of the gear on it strictly being placed on their shoulders.

Splitting the load between shoulders and hips is where it’s at. In the end, you’ll still get pain over time, but it will help mitigate things.

 

[AHM]

Pats trusty copy of Humanscale

Kewl. Almost as kewl as this.

AHM: That ruck may look small, but it’s an ALICE ruck with a metal frame and they routinely have 85lbs in them. Sometimes up to 125lbs. They are seriously used.

I was thinking that in order for an exercise rucksack to carry as much weight
as I can fit into the internal frame backpack,
they'd have to fill the space with depleted uranium or at least lead.

If only ground-pounders carried a lot of lead around in the fie...wait; never mind.

 

[weekendracer]

I've junked up this thread and never posted what gun I would put in a BOB.

Suppressed .22.