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Bug in at almost all costs

I love it when the occasional reality laced post about SHTF buggin out scenarios surfaces. It was actually how and why I found NES in the first place.

Once I got past planning for various actions both aggressive (Solar flares, asteroids, volcano, mega storms...) and passive (food shortage, economic collapse,...) and started to think about the various reactions that would most certainly follow, my survivalist fairy tale ended. At least 90% of the postings I see have yet to make it this far into reality.

For most the BOB is nothing more than a rape whistle. Because unless you are a hardcore East Boston gun owning resident YOU... ARE... DONE. Don't believe me? Think about what it takes for one to grab only personal essentials and leave the protection of shelter behind. The price of cheese went up? Too much ash getting on your window box planter? Try no dairy, no fresh meat, veggies, nothing but canned stuff you better have already had. Probably way more than most have. And they know it...

For single folks the Lone Wolf approach might pan out for a little bit if done early and remotely enough. But not for long. Don't believe me? Look how long those federal fugitives lasted in some of the most remote areas available. Even with local knowledge and outside assistance they are eventually caught. But somehow with a range bag full of goodies you can do better?

Now add a family to the mix. You want a fairy tale ending? Go watch The Croods. Sums the perils of a journey up nicely. Listen to Grug and just find a nice cave. The best bet is to surround yourself with as many like minded families as you can and try to achieve the same goal. Because a BOB family is little more than a meal for the real predators out there. A really good one. Because a pack with legs is nothing more than a corner store to whoever has made it that far.

So yes I am a big supporter of the bug in scenario. To me the thought of bugging out means I have already lost. Just not admitting it yet...
 
If I chose to "Bug Out", the purpose would be to "Bug In" at a better location. But yeah, a long term "Bug Out" plan will likely get you captured by a group of cannibal hipsters.
 
Nick Fury said:
I love it when the occasional reality laced post about SHTF buggin out scenarios surfaces. It was actually how and why I found NES in the first place.

Once I got past planning for various actions both aggressive (Solar flares, asteroids, volcano, mega storms...) and passive (food shortage, economic collapse,...) and started to think about the various reactions that would most certainly follow, my survivalist fairy tale ended. At least 90% of the postings I see have yet to make it this far into reality.

For most the BOB is nothing more than a rape whistle. Because unless you are a hardcore East Boston gun owning resident YOU... ARE... DONE. Don't believe me? Think about what it takes for one to grab only personal essentials and leave the protection of shelter behind. The price of cheese went up? Too much ash getting on your window box planter? Try no dairy, no fresh meat, veggies, nothing but canned stuff you better have already had. Probably way more than most have. And they know it...

For single folks the Lone Wolf approach might pan out for a little bit if done early and remotely enough. But not for long. Don't believe me? Look how long those federal fugitives lasted in some of the most remote areas available. Even with local knowledge and outside assistance they are eventually caught. But somehow with a range bag full of goodies you can do better?

Now add a family to the mix. You want a fairy tale ending? Go watch The Croods. Sums the perils of a journey up nicely. Listen to Grug and just find a nice cave. The best bet is to surround yourself with as many like minded families as you can and try to achieve the same goal. Because a BOB family is little more than a meal for the real predators out there. A really good one. Because a pack with legs is nothing more than a corner store to whoever has made it that far.

So yes I am a big supporter of the bug in scenario. To me the thought of bugging out means I have already lost. Just not admitting it yet...
Click to expand...

Bugging out is to appease the cognitive dissonance. I thought this article drove the point home nicely. Tents suck in February, even with a Wiggy's sleeping bag and a pack full of 'operator' gear.
 
Bugging out doesn't always mean "Going Lewis & Clark and surviving in the great north woods." Some people will bug out of the city to their secondary location that is already prepped. [thinking]
 
derek said:
Bugging out doesn't always mean "Going Lewis & Clark and surviving in the great north woods." Some people will bug out of the city to their secondary location that is already prepped. [thinking]
Click to expand...

The Federal fugitive scenario was mentioned because it was easy to relate with, not that too many would even get that far.

The problem is having a place to go does nothing to help you get there. Most scenarios are not too friendly concerning long range or short range metro travel.

That is why I feel even though a BOB is an essential tool in the shed, having to use it means you have run out of options.

If I am missing some key detail that would ensure safe travel at an acceptable risk level please let me know.
 
Unless there is an unexpected bomb that goes off and puts the city in to chaos, there will be warning signs that it's time to head to a secondary location. It's critical that the decision is made before it's too late. One example is NOLA, they had days to get out. Those who waited until it was too late to leave were stuck in a shit show with bad guys who had and didn't have badges.

There should be a contingency plan for everything.
 
Who are these people who think they are bugging out to nowhere ? I've never actually read their posts.

After several dozen "re-do's" of my BoB , it's turned into a medium Alice pack , that I use for 3 day or less camping trips. I'm not carrying my favorite 3 apocalypse guns , or ice fishing gear and a board game , either.

But if my truck full of bug out crap dies ( Botruck?) while I am on my way to a cabin I can walk a few days if I need to. ... And yes , I have a place or two or three to go to. But until then , it's my camping gear.

Bug Out to me means " traveling", not becoming a wandering refugee.
 
...and ...

Bugging in , further away from cities is better than closer to cities , I figure. The more people are near you the more you are going to have to deal with people who think they are in charge - from Vikings to neighborhood ad hoc committees voting to share your stuff and skills.

So if things start to come apart , I am hoping to travel with my BoB in the back seat to a better place to bug in.
 
fubar said:
Bug Out to me means " traveling", not becoming a wandering refugee.
Click to expand...

Yes. Let's forget about "Lone Wolves" and "National Forests" for long enough to discuss the "journey". That is where at least my immediate security concerns lie.

So far no direct answer has been offered about safe travel methods other than to get out sooner over later. Works great in those passive SHTF scenarios. Probably could bring the kitchen sink with the kinds of early warnings a person would see. This would be a preppers wet dream actually.

Say a Superstorm hit the Northeast harder and more direct than we have ever seen before. Maybe an asteroid slams into the earth with a catastrophic result. Or a massive solar flare that scores a direct hit. You grab your stuff and head outside just in time to find your not the only one thinking it's time to move...

This is my concern. You mix people carrying precious stuff on the move thinking about tomorrow with people who have nothing but a hungry belly thinking just about today your going to have problems. Big problems. Problems that it would really take a platoon to solve definitively.

I lived in St. Thomas when a small but powerful hurricane took everyone by surprise. Ended up raping that island pretty good. Nobody was spared. I was with a friends family who lived in an old navel bunker. No lie. For us it was a rum laden party. For everyone else it was this:

Marilyn-Damage-1.jpg


These are all poured concrete and block houses. Windows all gone. Roofs gone or severely damaged. Water damage to everything that was left. Sea water in the cisterns. The above picture does not even come close to ones still in my mind.

Sorry to get off track but until you live it, you really have no idea what a potential cluster**** a natural disaster can be.
 
Nick Fury said:
So far no direct answer has been offered about safe travel methods other than to get out sooner over later.
Click to expand...
You answered your own question.

Nick Fury said:
Problems that it would really take a platoon to solve definitively.
Click to expand...

If you don't have a network of people who will do what ever it takes to live the odds are against you.
 
derek said:
You answered your own question.

If you don't have a network of people who will do what ever it takes to live the odds are against you.
Click to expand...

Why is it when someone is in a position of strength they cannot see weakness?
 
Most of us interested in this subject recognize the thin veneer of civilization that can and will be stripped away when people are cold, wet, and hungry with no hope of that condition changing for the better. In the initial aftermath, there will of course be an element that goes right to criminal behavior, but I believe that for the "normal" people it will take a couple of days. There is your window.

While some of that criminal element may be organized (gangs etc) it will still take them a couple days to really perfect their craft.

This is where having a plan, your people, and training will play a huge roll. At least that is where I am placing my money.

No matter what I think "the thing" will be, one idea that is pretty clear to me is; it won't look like what I think it will. Adaptability, working as a team, and making the right decisions early will make the difference.
 
DrBurnsides said:
Everybody tends to forget the epidemic scenarios. I think we've been extremely lucky not getting hit with something really virulent.
Click to expand...

We have been pretty lucky in that regard, that's why knowledge of procedures, meds and other supplies are well stocked by many. Isolation is the best thing for prevention.
People need to learn how to quarantine themselves and others along with maintaining food water and meds to the afflicted.
 
goodlife30 said:
I'm up for a nes bug in group. South of Worcester let me know
Click to expand...

Try networking with people who you already know who are like minded. You will not get a great response to that here, based off of responses in similar threads.

I am sure people will help with advice on how to help develop your group, but recruiting may be tough, and frankly you might not like who you attract. Don't just look for shooters. People can be trained in weapons. Look for people who you can depend on.

Nickels worth of free advice.
 
Nick, if you happen to bug out too late, you may still have a chance depending on where you live. Middle of Manhattan? Pretty much screwed. Rural NH where I am? There's no I* highway anywhere near here... I can likely meander my way along the rural roads all the way up north and into Maine if I wanted to go there. (I have land there, but nothing built on it, so that would not be great to bug out to today.)
 
And, everything is here so I have no intention of bugging out unless a local chemical plant goes boom and a toxic gas cloud is heading my way. Bugging in lets me have all my stuff ready to go plus also lets me protect it. If I left during a major SHTF, I would expect house to be trashed and everything gone when I returned. I like my home, so I'm sticking here. If I somehow feel the need to hide in the woods, I'm surrounded by it.
 
The author is saying that bugging out into the woods is a bad idea because everyone else will do the same and compete with you, so he's trying to discourage everyone from doing this so he'll have the woods to himself. Brilliant. It's an argument *for* bugging out into the woods.
 
I just think about Traffic. I don't have anyplace to go right now, but unless I'm at least 24-hours ahead of everyone else, the highways and major roads are going to be parking lots.

One or two accidents will shut down 128, 3, 93, the pike, etc.

That happens, then the secondary roads will fill up. People will abandon their vehicles and go on foot.

Tony P.
 
toekneepea said:
I just think about Traffic. I don't have anyplace to go right now, but unless I'm at least 24-hours ahead of everyone else, the highways and major roads are going to be parking lots.

One or two accidents will shut down 128, 3, 93, the pike, etc.

That happens, then the secondary roads will fill up. People will abandon their vehicles and go on foot.

Tony P.
Click to expand...

very true. There have been 18 wheeler accidents twice on 95 near where I work, and each time the 20 minute back road commute I have turns into close to 2 hours of parking lot traffic from people trying to go around the 95 accidents. That's one accident, closing down all or part of one direction of highway travel. Imagine that on both sides every few miles
 
I95 parking lot. - yes , have maps for plan B , have enough gas to go the long way. Have 4 wheel drive. Worst case : that goddamn BoB and a good pair of boots.

How to move ? With friends , and as much training in teamwork as your friends with put up with.

Hurricane ? Yeah , I'm staying here at home. At least the beaches will be covered with qhohogs and lobster traps.

EMP/ Solar storm / dark ages ? ... Bummer. Maybe one one my wealthy neighbors will donate or charter a sailboat. I know an Indian in coastal Maine , and his neighbor is a close friend and paranoid prepper.

Gradual Suck , and breakdown of social and economic niceties ? Leisurely drive with a caravan of trucks. A maxed out Amex card and a Crapload of deliveries coming your way.
 
Some great posts. Lots of good word. There most certainly is an initial period of shock that could be taken advantage of. A BOB is essential for that. There is also a banding together and reaching out as our more human side emerges. This could both help and hinder taking advantage of early mobility.

So if the decision to mobilize is made early enough, the destination is close enough, and the event is mild enough then one could foresee little or no problems. I'll buy that. But if the above requirements are not closely met then there will be a whole lot unpredictable events that will whittle down or entirely end a survivalists journey. That is all I am trying to say with my doom and gloom.

I should add that my concern applies initally to metro and other dense population areas. Rural need not apply. That would be for the next chapter...
 
I'm gonna be just fine bugging in 10 minutes from downtown Boston. [thinking] (What's a forest?)

Actually, my plan B is to bug out to the nearest Hilton to get a nice meal, comfy bed, and a massage. [smile]
 

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