Buddy was just denied his first purchase for an 8 year old possession charge

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So back in '08 or '09, one of my lifelong friends (basically my little brother) was down in Miami partying one night in college, and he got caught with a personal use quantity of coke.

He was charged with 3rd degree felony possession of cocaine (possession of any quantity of cocaine is a felony charge in FL).

He was never actually convicted of the charge. He ended up spending a fortune on lawyers and jumped through a ton of hoops, was on probation for at least a year, court ordered drug tests & counselling, etc etc etc.

Long story short, however they set it up, upon successful completion of all of this (which he did) he was home free without a conviction.

He said it was dismissed, but i'm wondering if it was continued without a finding. I don't know how that would work, not a lawyer.

So, fast forward 8 years, he is having issues with pest animals so he went to a big box store and attempted to purchase a Ruger 10/22. They ran his name, and denied him the purchase.

I used the software my company uses for hiring (just basic stuff) and ran his name. It shows that he was charged, but it does not show any info about the outcome of the case.

His lawyer repeatedly assured him that after he did the drug programs, his record would be clear...which in terms of a conviction, it appears to be, but the charge was never expunged so it still shows up.

Can you really lose your gun rights for an ancient felony charge without a conviction? This just doesn't seem right to me.
 
Ok so what did he answer on the form?
Also was he denied or put on hold.
My friend called me all fired up and pissed that he got a denial.....5 days later he called me to tell me the dealer called to have him come pick up his gun..

Just a side note....probation generally comes with a guilty plea and if you get in trouble again you will serve your sentence plus some depending on the probation agreement....no?
CWF is you get to leave with out a finding generally with a clause if you don't do this and that we will charge you formally. I could be wrong.

Also what state is your Friend in.
 
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My guess is State and Local Dems are going to go after gun owners because they know Trump won't.
Cross your T's, dot your I's and keep your noses clean boys and girls...
 
What mac1911 said. Denied or delayed?

Also, he needs to dig out his paperwork from the trial in FL. Being charged shouldn't result in a denial as long as there isn't a conviction. Now... I don't know if FL has "cwof"s. I don't know if they will expunge or seal a record. MA, for example, can look at "sealed" records when investigating you for your LTC. They CANNOT look at an "expunged" record because the record simply isn't there any more. NJ expunges, not seals, records. Someone I'm very close to went through that shit in NJ and after completing a "pre-trial"... intervention? Forget the exact term. But after completing basically a year's probation the charges were dropped and he had the records expunged. The FBI has a record but NJ and the town clowns who busted him do not.

He may want to revisit this whole sordid chapter and see if he can get those records expunged.
 
What mac1911 said. Denied or delayed?

Also, he needs to dig out his paperwork from the trial in FL. Being charged shouldn't result in a denial as long as there isn't a conviction. Now... I don't know if FL has "cwof"s. I don't know if they will expunge or seal a record. MA, for example, can look at "sealed" records when investigating you for your LTC. They CANNOT look at an "expunged" record because the record simply isn't there any more. NJ expunges, not seals, records. Someone I'm very close to went through that shit in NJ and after completing a "pre-trial"... intervention? Forget the exact term. But after completing basically a year's probation the charges were dropped and he had the records expunged. The FBI has a record but NJ and the town clowns who busted him do not.

He may want to revisit this whole sordid chapter and see if he can get those records expunged.

He was denied, not delayed.

I believe he did something very similar to what your friend did, where because it was a first offense he was able to do some sort of drug program to avoid a conviction.

Answered NOs on the 4473 (which is accurate), and did not plead guilty at the time.

He has not has his records expunged, he didn't think he needed to because he was never actually convicted.

He spoke with his lawyer and the guy wants $1500 to expunge the record of the charge. Considering hes never had an issue with employment or voting, he would be spending the money only to restore the gun rights he didn't know he was missing.

Thats going to be an expensive .22.
 
He was denied, not delayed.

I believe he did something very similar to what your friend did, where because it was a first offense he was able to do some sort of drug program to avoid a conviction.

Answered NOs on the 4473 (which is accurate), and did not plead guilty at the time.

He has not has his records expunged, he didn't think he needed to because he was never actually convicted.

He spoke with his lawyer and the guy wants $1500 to expunge the record of the charge. Considering hes never had an issue with employment or voting, he would be spending the money only to restore the gun rights he didn't know he was missing.

Thats going to be an expensive .22.

Regardless he needs to know why he was denied and see what the Fed's see. I believed my lawyer at the end of some timely court hearings that I would be able to get my drivers license when I,turned 16 1/2.... well when this time came state said NO because of some court fees and fines and proper paper work not complete...so it was showing my court records incorrectly. A call to my lawyer and find out he did not tell me or provide me with the correct info. He did how ever correct the problem and pay for the fees and penalties.
Friend needs to find all the info he can and resolve the issue or continue being a PP
 
What mac1911 said. Denied or delayed?

Also, he needs to dig out his paperwork from the trial in FL. Being charged shouldn't result in a denial as long as there isn't a conviction. Now... I don't know if FL has "cwof"s. I don't know if they will expunge or seal a record. MA, for example, can look at "sealed" records when investigating you for your LTC. They CANNOT look at an "expunged" record because the record simply isn't there any more. NJ expunges, not seals, records. Someone I'm very close to went through that shit in NJ and after completing a "pre-trial"... intervention? Forget the exact term. But after completing basically a year's probation the charges were dropped and he had the records expunged. The FBI has a record but NJ and the town clowns who busted him do not.

He may want to revisit this whole sordid chapter and see if he can get those records expunged.
I have a very, VERY close "friend" from New Jersey who got popped for a couple of roaches back in the late 80's. Got a lawyer, went to court, got a "Conditional Discharge" WITHOUT a guilty plea. Lawyer said "It gets expunged in a year". Moved to Arizona, bought a gun no problem. Moved to MA, went to the PD, filled out the app for an LTC, next day got a call from the Licensing Officer: "So, tell me about this pot arrest by the State Police in blank-town..."

Expunged my ass...

But yeah, got his LTC-A, and got renewed no problem. Also has NH and Utah...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
I have a very, VERY close "friend" from New Jersey who got popped for a couple of roaches back in the late 80's. Got a lawyer, went to court, got a "Conditional Discharge" WITHOUT a guilty plea. Lawyer said "It gets expunged in a year". Moved to Arizona, bought a gun no problem. Moved to MA, went to the PD, filled out the app for an LTC, next day got a call from the Licensing Officer: "So, tell me about this pot arrest by the State Police in blank-town..."

Expunged my ass...

But yeah, got his LTC-A, and got renewed no problem. Also has NH and Utah...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Is it possible the arrest record was still in the system but not the court records or info?
 
There are more than a few cases where the actual final disposition isn't put on the docket sheet of record, so a case looks open forever.

Best to spend the money and make it go away before it pops up somewhere else that cost him a job opportunity, a loan, etc.
 
There are more than a few cases where the actual final disposition isn't put on the docket sheet of record, so a case looks open forever.

Best to spend the money and make it go away before it pops up somewhere else that cost him a job opportunity, a loan, etc.

This was the issue i had, it wouldnt result in a denial though, it would go to further review and you would get to pick up the firearm in 3 days.
It would never be resolved in the further review because They dont know the disposition.
You have to call the arresting agency and get a copy of the paperwork, if for some reason they dont have it.you should probably seek a lawyer. Unless the arrest was a long time ago they'll print you a copy of the digital record.


Edit

Quote from OP
So, fast forward 8 years, he is having issues with pest animals so he went to a big box store and attempted to purchase a Ruger 10/22. They ran his name, and denied him the purchase.



Ya. we all over thought this, hes just got to go to a real gunstore and i bet he can buy a gun....its store policy handging him up.but he should adress the underlying problem
 
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First find out why it was denied. There are other reasons denials happen. It could be as simple as someone with a sim9lar name and the records got crossed. Make sure you are addressing the actual problem.

a CWOF typically comes with a period of probation, which may or may not have other requirement. Once complete, the charges are dismissed. The feds won't care about this, it's considered a non-conviction. In MA it will haunt you forever, don't know about FL. NH and Utah don't care either.
 
Hey OP, what state are we talking about??? Someone already asked, but I didnt catch the answer if it was indeed answered
 
Unless the arrest was a long time ago they'll print you a copy of the digital record.
A printed copy is often useless for getting govt agencies to change decisions based on the fact that one was not convicted. What you need is a court certified copy.

This is also a reminder that anyone unfortunate enough to be ground on by the criminal justice system should get such documentation at the time the case is resolved and keep it until you are dead.
 
A printed copy is often useless for getting govt agencies to change decisions based on the fact that one was not convicted. What you need is a court certified copy.

This is also a reminder that anyone unfortunate enough to be ground on by the criminal justice system should get such documentation at the time the case is resolved and keep it until you are dead.

Thats good advice
 
Your buddies first step should be to contact the FBI about what is in their system.

Find out what's in there.

CWF is a Mass term. Its used in other states, but may not be the situation in FL. So the next thing is to find out what happens to cases where an accused person completes all the requirements for dismissal of charges.

If all looks good, the next step may be to get him a Unique Personal Identification Number (UPIN) if he continues to get denied. This is typically used if your name is similar to a felon's and you are continually "delayed". But it could be used here to sidestep bad records on his actual past.

I can speak of CT as an example. In CT its called Accelerated Rehabilitation, or AR. This is offered to first time offenders of minor offenses specifically so they don't end up with a record for minor indiscretions.

The judge orders the terms of the AR. The accused meets the terms. The prosecutor nolle's the charges. After 13 months (I believe) the charges are dismissed, and here's the key part, ALL RECORDS OF THE ARREST and prosecution are purged from all reporting systems. The only records that remain are with the administrators of the AR program so that if he is charged again, they can see that he was already cut a deal.

In CT once charges are dismissed or the person is found "not guilty" all records associated with the arrest, prosecution, etc must be destroyed. Its the law. I was arrested in college and the charges were dismissed "with prejudice". The judge quite literally said to me "this did NOT happen. If you are ever asked if you were arrested, or charged, or defended yourself, you can legally say NO".

Don

p.s. https://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/chap_961a.htm
 
In CT once charges are dismissed or the person is found "not guilty" all records associated with the arrest, prosecution, etc must be destroyed. Its the law. I was arrested in college and the charges were dismissed "with prejudice". The judge quite literally said to me "this did NOT happen. If you are ever asked if you were arrested, or charged, or defended yourself, you can legally say NO".

Don

p.s. https://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/chap_961a.htm

I wouldn't want to trust that statement from the judge when applying For a MA LTC. There's always a record somewhere, and the PD always seem to find it. And once they do, they can use that against a person and deny the LTC on grounds of suitability.

Would that be legal? Probably not, but good luck finding a MA court that would rule in your favor because of the gunz iz bad doctrine
 
Contact a lawyer in Florida and explain what is going on, and what can be done about it, how much will it cost.etc..
 
there's always a paper trail somewhere, i don"t care what lawyers and judges tell ya. in close to 50 years of holding a ltc in massachusetts, i've seen a lot of people get screwed over stuff they forgot about, stuff that was suppose to be sealed, expunged, thrown out, etc., and it came back to bite them in the ass.
 
I got arrested for selling a $25 bag of mushrooms back in the early 80's in Albuquerque.

I pleaded Guilty, and the judge gave me a differed sentence. I had to go to the probation office every month. My probation officer was also a Vietnam Vet, a former Marine.

All he did every time I showed up was yawn, and take my check for 40 bucks and give me a receipt. After six month, he told me I didn't have to come back,

A couple of months later I got a letter from the courts saying the charges were "Dismissed with Prejudice."

I can buy and own a firearm back in New Mexico. I am not a "Prohibited Person" as far as the ATF goes.

But when I moved up here to MA 12 years ago, I couldn't even get an FID card! [angry]
 
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IMO, the only way a CWOF may not show at all on a record is if the CWOF is issued by a clerk magistrate hearing and not via a judge. Mass does this but who knows about other states. Showing before a clerk doesn't constitute 'going to court' because you are never actually in court. Even if dismissed, the coke charges for your friend did result in a court appearance and it's doubtful the record would be fully expunged. Probably would not show on a CORI check, but will show when a licensing officer checks a more in-depth database. Sucks because there's no clear legal reason your friend was denied- just that fuzzy Mass suitability 'may issue' C-F we face.
 
There are more than a few cases where the actual final disposition isn't put on the docket sheet of record, so a case looks open forever.

Best to spend the money and make it go away before it pops up somewhere else that cost him a job opportunity, a loan, etc.

I suspect this is what keeps getting me delayed, but MA makes it very difficult to even find out what is popping up, let alone resolve it.
 
I wouldn't want to trust that statement from the judge when applying For a MA LTC. There's always a record somewhere, and the PD always seem to find it. And once they do, they can use that against a person and deny the LTC on grounds of suitability.

Would that be legal? Probably not, but good luck finding a MA court that would rule in your favor because of the gunz iz bad doctrine

Well, strictly speaking wed be in suitability territory then if they denied based on a conviction that was expunged. I'd just tell mass to **** off at that point and go live somewhere else, unless a gun lawyer was able to convince the PD otherwise.
 
I have a very, VERY close "friend" from New Jersey who got popped for a couple of roaches back in the late 80's. Got a lawyer, went to court, got a "Conditional Discharge" WITHOUT a guilty plea. Lawyer said "It gets expunged in a year". Moved to Arizona, bought a gun no problem. Moved to MA, went to the PD, filled out the app for an LTC, next day got a call from the Licensing Officer: "So, tell me about this pot arrest by the State Police in blank-town..."

Expunged my ass...

But yeah, got his LTC-A, and got renewed no problem. Also has NH and Utah...

Plain and simple, his lawyer outright lied. Nothing gets automatically expunged. There is a process that needs to be undertaken for that to happen. If he didn't do that, then it wasn't expunged.
 
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