Bringing a non licensed person shooting

[Maninblue1861]

Isnt it legal to take some one shooting, who doesnt have a ltc yet ect, so long as they arnt a prohibited person, as long as they are in direct control of you, and that you are properly licensed? Was just told by a MA LEO that its not legal to do so.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

That's why I get all of my legal advice from a cop. NOT!

Yes, perfectly fine and good on you for doing it. I do it all the time.

 

[ckaminski]

IIRC, it *USED* to be illegal after the first 1998 gun law was passed to provide a handgun to anyone under the age of 18, even if it was for the purposes of instruction. Thankfully that's changed.

 

[Horrible]

So, you can not take a person shooting that is prohibited by law from owning a firearm (ie - convicted felon)?

 

[Maninblue1861]

Thats what I thought. was at martin and burns and a mass wildlife guy (said was an officer but saw no badge, and was just in a mass wildlife work truck) stopped me, as I had mygf, and a friend who just moved here from georgia after getting out of the military. figure would be nice to let him try some antique military weapons (she was just watching). gave me the whole first degree that its illegal to have him shoot without a permit in mass, and that I was a mass resident I should know that. I have been told by leos and trainers in past was legal. tried getting game warden down to tell me the same thing, then tried having all my guns run for legality... when I talked to his LT. on the phone explained the senario he basicly agreed I was ok, and went to talk to him. then the guy was still trying to make me day misrable. ended up ultimately having to give my drivers license and LTC info for him to run to ensure was all valid. was a total wtf senario. think is last time I go there,a s been going there for 12 years.

 

[Kevlar]

Isnt it legal to take some one shooting, who doesnt have a ltc yet ect, so long as they arnt a prohibited person, as long as they are in direct control of you, and that you are properly licensed? Was just told by a MA LEO that its not legal to do so.

Yes, perfectly legal. You may want to direct the LEO to MGL 140-129C...

No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.

>snip<

The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses:

>snip<

(m) The temporary holding, handling or firing of a firearm for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a license to carry firearms, or the temporary holding, handling or firing of a rifle or shotgun for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a firearm identification card, or where such holding, handling or firing is for a lawful purpose;

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129C

So, you can not take a person shooting that is prohibited by law from owning a firearm (ie - convicted felon)?

Correct, if you know them to be such.

 

[Retired-LEO]

Of course it's legal... That's how almost everybody starts out!!!

 

[PATRON]

You might want to direct the LEO to the donut shop,then tell him that it is his job to know the law,and not what he thinks it is.

 

[MisterHappy]

So....you didn't respect his authoritay?

 

[M1911]

Isnt it legal to take some one shooting, who doesnt have a ltc yet ect, so long as they arnt a prohibited person, as long as they are in direct control of you, and that you are properly licensed? Was just told by a MA LEO that its not legal to do so.

And that is a perfect example of why you shouldn't listen to law enforcement officers when it comes to MA firearms laws. Many of them think they know the law but they just don't. Print out that section of the law and hand it to him.

 

[temchik]

You HAD to give him your DL and LTC? Why?

 

[M1911]

Thats what I thought. was at martin and burns and a mass wildlife guy (said was an officer but saw no badge, and was just in a mass wildlife work truck stopped me, as I had mygf, and a friend who just moved here from georgia after getting out of the military. figure would be nice to let him try some antique military weapons (she was just watching). gave me the whole first degree that its illegal to have him shoot without a permit in mass, and that I was a mass resident I should know that. I have been told by leos and trainers in past was legal. tried getting game warden down to tell me the same thing, then tried having all my guns run for legality... when I talked to his LT. on the phone explained the senario he basicly agreed I was ok, and went to talk to him. then the guy was still trying to make me day misrable. ended up ultimately having to give my drivers license and LTC info for him to run to ensure was all valid. was a total wtf senario. think is last time I go there,a s been going there for 12 years.

Send a written complaint, along with a copy of the law in question, to Mass Wildlife.

 

[Maninblue1861]

The only thing he MAY have been right on, was each person shooting there must have own permit to use range (can't take friends ect), in which I'll call Monday and clarification on, as every weekend there's large group of people there and positive not all have permits. What really pissed me off, was cause I had more than 2 guns he insisted on having my entire collection I had there run for legality.

 

[Kevlar]

...a mass wildlife guy (said was an officer but saw no badge, and was just in a mass wildlife work truck) stopped me ... then tried having all my guns run for legality ... ended up ultimately having to give my drivers license and LTC info for him to run to ensure was all valid.

...he insisted on having my entire collection I had there run for legality.

I'm curious, was he was a LEO, an EPO, or neither?

How exactly did he determine "legality" of your firearms?

How was he able to determine the status of your DL and LTC?

 

[FrugalFannie]

Thats what I thought. was at martin and burns and a mass wildlife guy (said was an officer but saw no badge, and was just in a mass wildlife work truck) stopped me, as I had mygf, and a friend who just moved here from georgia after getting out of the military. figure would be nice to let him try some antique military weapons (she was just watching). gave me the whole first degree that its illegal to have him shoot without a permit in mass, and that I was a mass resident I should know that. I have been told by leos and trainers in past was legal. tried getting game warden down to tell me the same thing, then tried having all my guns run for legality... when I talked to his LT. on the phone explained the senario he basicly agreed I was ok, and went to talk to him. then the guy was still trying to make me day misrable. ended up ultimately having to give my drivers license and LTC info for him to run to ensure was all valid. was a total wtf senario. think is last time I go there,a s been going there for 12 years.

Tell me where this is and I'll go jerk his chain. He wouldn't get my LTC or ID without reasonable suspicion I was breaking a law. And I'd shove it in his face how wrong he is.

 

[GreenGoblin227]

Don't bring down the Martin and burns that's where I blast off. I was always told that every shooter needs a permit. It's hardly ever followed. I was informed this year of that rule. Pat Huckery out of Actin/Ayer Mass runs that division. She's a great person.

He'll sometimes I bring my mower down and cut the grass at the pistol range.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Tell me where this is and I'll go jerk his chain. He wouldn't get my LTC or ID without reasonable suspicion I was breaking a law. And I'd shove it in his face how wrong he is.

I'll go with you. I have shot here a few times and I have a permit to due so. That cop is so wrong it isn't even funny. I will bring about 10 firearms and unload them all and place them on the table. Martin Burns Reservation is in Newbury/Byfield MA on Orchard Street.

 

[OfficerObie59]

I'm curious, was he was a LEO, an EPO, or neither?

How exactly did he determine "legality" of your firearms?

How was he able to determine the status of your DL and LTC?

Me too. The EPO's are generally very well versed on the gun laws, and know all sorts of obscure statutes relating to firearms, hunting and fishing I've never even heard of. In fact, they're the only ones I'd ever take MGL advice from WRT firearms laws.

If it was MEP, seems to me it would have been hard to miss. Although, who else would have access to a CJIS terminal to run his info?

Are you sure the officer(?) wasnt referncing a DCR or DFW admin regulation mandating stricter standards for firearms use at state reservations?

Don't bring down the Martin and burns that's where I blast off. I was always told that every shooter needs a permit. It's hardly ever followed.

For example:

(l) No person shall engage in target practicing or target shooting within any wildlife management area without written permission from the Director or his designated agent. "Target practicing" shall be construed to include the "sighting in" or testing of firearms and bows-and-arrows.

321 CMR 3.01(l)

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/cmr/cmr_300.htm#3011

Looks like they could apply this to each person shooting if they so chose; I'm doubting the OP's guests each had their own permit.

 

[Maninblue1861]

Well the each person needing a permit I'm fine with. Was the first I've heard of that in 12 years, ave he didn't bust my balls about it, nor have I been harassed by the epo about it, ad the check my permit from time to time, and look over my stuff , and occasionally ask to try something I bring.

Was the being given the third degree about no non licensed people are allowed to touch for arms, and cause I had 6 bolt action rifles, a garand and 2 pistols, he tried to have the epo cone down to run them for legality. Ultimately gave up on that as nearest one was over an hour away, and guys boss told hun to let me go. Still took down my info to ensure my permits were valid. Called the office in sure to ensure I had my permit (even though had it in hand)

 

[Len-2A Training]

Me too. The EPO's are generally very well versed on the gun laws, and know all sorts of obscure statutes relating to firearms, hunting and fishing I've never even heard of. In fact, they're the only ones I'd ever take MGL advice from WRT firearms laws.

If you ever ran into the EPO that "taught" my Hunter Safety Ed class that you can only put 1 gun legally in any case (2 in one case is illegal according to him), must store ammo separately from guns and suggested the glove box for the ammo, if you use a soft case for long guns then you must use a trigger lock for transportation . . . you'd have a permanent mark on your face from the massive "facepalm" that you would have done!!!

 

[MisterHappy]

This is why all mass gun owners shoudl know the laws.

I wonder if there's anyone that can help with that?

 

[Len-2A Training]

This is why all mass gun owners shoudl know the laws.

I wonder if there's anyone that can help with that?

You can lead a horse to water . . .