Boston Firearm Transportation - Class A w/ restrictions

[assaultknifle]

Hi there. I am a very new gun owner. I researched the forum extensively but couldn't find a definite answer. Per our laws:

Q: How do I transport a gun in my vehicle?
A: A person with a Class "A" LTC may transport a handgun loaded or unloaded on his person or under his direct control in the vehicle. If the handgun is not under his direct control, it must be unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk or other secure container.

Boston just approved my LTC Class A but with a sports/hunting shooting restriction. What is the protocol for carrying while in my car? How would I go about ensuring I don't violate any laws? I feel like the restriction complicates things for no reason and leaves our laws open to interpretation. I can't find clear instructions anywhere on this. Any suggestions or reading would be very helpful.

 

[knfmn]

Hi there. I am a very new gun owner. I researched the forum extensively but couldn't find a definite answer. Per our laws:

Q: How do I transport a gun in my vehicle?
A: A person with a Class "A" LTC may transport a handgun loaded or unloaded on his person or under his direct control in the vehicle. If the handgun is not under his direct control, it must be unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk or other secure container.

Boston just approved my LTC Class A but with a sports/hunting shooting restriction. What is the protocol for carrying while in my car? How would I go about ensuring I don't violate any laws? I feel like the restriction complicates things for no reason and leaves our laws open to interpretation. I can't find clear instructions anywhere on this. Any suggestions or reading would be very helpful.

The answer is in what you posted? Unload it, lock it in a case with ammo in a separate locked case in the trunk. IANAL and this is not legal advice.

 

[M1911]

Unloaded in a locked trunk, locked case, or other secure container.

 

[jtnf]

A license to carry with a sporting and hunting restriction is NOT a license to "carry." This is a license to own handguns... Transport to and from the range, or to and from a hunting venue (is there even handgun hunting in Massachusetts????) means locked and unloaded, and NOT on your person and NOT readily accessible.

 

[M1911]

Unload it, lock it in a case with ammo in a separate locked case in the trunk.

There is legal no requirement in MA for the ammo to be in a separate container or for the ammo to be locked up. It isn't a bad idea, but it is above and beyond the legal requirement.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Hi there. I am a very new gun owner. I researched the forum extensively but couldn't find a definite answer. Per our laws:

Q: How do I transport a gun in my vehicle?
A: A person with a Class "A" LTC may transport a handgun loaded or unloaded on his person or under his direct control in the vehicle. If the handgun is not under his direct control, it must be unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk or other secure container.

Boston just approved my LTC Class A but with a sports/hunting shooting restriction. What is the protocol for carrying while in my car? How would I go about ensuring I don't violate any laws? I feel like the restriction complicates things for no reason and leaves our laws open to interpretation. I can't find clear instructions anywhere on this. Any suggestions or reading would be very helpful.

 

[Snora]

If you can't carry in public you can't carry in your car. Store it in a locked container during transit.

 

[PATRON]

Congrats on getting your LTC sucks that's restricted,and like already stated locked in a case in trunk.I always do over kill,and lock everything up,except my carry gun.

 

[assaultknifle]

A license to carry with a sporting and hunting restriction is NOT a license to "carry." This is a license to own handguns... Transport to and from the range, or to and from a hunting venue (is there even handgun hunting in Massachusetts????) means locked and unloaded, and NOT on your person and NOT readily accessible.

So to reiterate. The fact that's it's a licence to carry (class A) means nothing if there is a restriction.

 

[M1911]

So to reiterate. The fact that's it's a licence to carry (class A) means nothing if there is a restriction.

Yes.

If the Boston PD wanted you to carry a loaded, concealed handgun, then they would have issued you an unrestricted license. They didn't. Yes, that sucks.

 

[Len-2A Training]

There is legal no requirement in MA for the ammo to be in a separate container or for the ammo to be locked up. It isn't a bad idea, but it is above and beyond the legal requirement.

True, UNLESS the ammo is accessible to any unlicensed persons also in the vehicle, in which case it must be locked up.

 

[drgrant]

A license to carry with a sporting and hunting restriction is NOT a license to "carry." This is a license to own handguns... Transport to and from the range, or to and from a hunting venue (is there even handgun hunting in Massachusetts????) means locked and unloaded, and NOT on your person and NOT readily accessible.

Not quite. A restricted A will still keep you from going to jail/felony bullshit land even if you are carrying against the restriction. This is an important distinction that people forget. Not that it is a risk I would take (as I kinda want to keep an ongoing LTC in MA) but it is worth knowing how the law actually works instead of mis-characterizing the risk internally. The more pro-2A cops also tend to ignore this stupid restriction BS... but obviously encountering them is not reliable strategy.

-Mike

 

[jtnf]

Not quite. A restricted A will still keep you from going to jail/felony bullshit land even if you are carrying against the restriction. This is an important distinction that people forget. Not that it is a risk I would take (as I kinda want to keep an ongoing LTC in MA) but it is worth knowing how the law actually works instead of mis-characterizing the risk internally. The more pro-2A cops also tend to ignore this stupid restriction BS... but obviously encountering them is not reliable strategy.

-Mike

Ahhh... right. Possession is a felony for the unwashed (unlicensed) but possession with an LTC (restricted) is a misdemeanor, no?

 

[drgrant]

Ahhh... right. Possession is a felony for the unwashed (unlicensed) but possession with an LTC (restricted) is a misdemeanor, no?

It's not even that, actually. It's some kind of administrative penalty which can result in loss of license and up to a 10K fine IIRC. (but I've never, ever heard of someone actually getting fined. )

-Mike

 

[MisterHappy]

True, UNLESS the ammo is accessible to any unlicensed persons also in the vehicle, in which case it must be locked up.

I see where you're going, but is there a cite for this? If you have a non-large cap long gun in your car, the only requirement is that it be unloaded. There's no language that I know of that says, "..if everyone in the car is licensed."

Now, I made up the word, "Massprudence," but that means to exceed the requirements of the law....

I know that there's a whole Transport/storage issue, but I've never seen a requirement that the ammo, in a car, during transport, needs to be secured from unlicensed persons.

 

[M1911]

True, UNLESS the ammo is accessible to any unlicensed persons also in the vehicle, in which case it must be locked up.

What statute requires that?

 

[Len-2A Training]

MGL C. 140 S. 129C

No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.

Having had a discussion with (at the time) FRB Director Jason Guida, Esq. about what "possession" means (merely being able to touch it) wrt machine guns, I think you can take that to the bank that ammo w/o a LTC/FID or under direct supervision (class/range) would be treated the same way.

 

[M1911]

Would you care to cite an instance where two people were driving in car, one with an LTC, one without, and ammo in back of the car where the person without an LTC was charged with possession of the ammo?

I'm sorry Len, but unless you can provide an example of this actually happening, it seems to me to be scare-mongering.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Would you care to cite an instance where two people were driving in car, one with an LTC, one without, and ammo in back of the car where the person without an LTC was charged with possession of the ammo?

I'm sorry Len, but unless you can provide an example of this actually happening, it seems to me to be scare-mongering.

Call it what you like!

Court cases are damn near impossible to track as this stuff is in District Court usually and likely CWOF'd or any conviction isn't for what the arrest was for.

Bottom line: If you think it is legal for an unlicensed person to POSSESS ammo or components have at it. Do you let your students take home bullets and brass as souvenirs? If not, why not if it is legal as you claim.

 

[Suppressor]

From the Firearms Record Bureau FAQ:

Transporting Firearms
Q: How do I transport a gun in my vehicle?
A: A person with a Class "A" LTC may transport a handgun loaded or unloaded on his person or under his direct control in the vehicle. If the handgun is not under his direct control, it must be unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk or other secure container.
A person with a Class "B" LTC must transport handguns unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk or other secure container. All persons transporting large capacity rifles and shotguns must transport them unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk or other secure container. Trigger locks do not meet the requirements of securing a weapon during transport in motor vehicle.
For more specific information see M.G.L. c. 140, §131C.

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/frequently-asked-questions.html

To make things more confusing, if you STOP driving, it appears you may STORE your LOADED handgun in your vehicle, as such:

Q: Can I leave my gun in my car if I need to go into the store on my way home from the range or from hunting?
A: If your handgun or large capacity rifle or shotgun is transported in accordance with the provisions of M.G.L. c. 140, §131C (i.e. unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk or other secure container) then the gun may be left unattended in the vehicle. Weapons transported in this manner will automatically be considered "stored or kept" in compliance with the safe storage requirements of §131L.
A person leaving a non-large capacity rifle or shotgun in an unattended vehicle is required to lock the rifle or shotgun in a case/container or in the trunk, or install a mechanical locking device on the weapon (i.e. cable or trigger lock).
top of the page

131C allows you to transport your loaded handgun on your person, or you may unload it and lock it up. 131L allows you to store your handgun, regardless of its status, as long is it is locked up. 131L does not say that you cannot store a handgun in your car, it only says that you SHALL NOT store it any place, except in the specified manner. It follows therefore, that leaving a loaded handgun in your car, locked in a secure container, complies with the law, just as it would at home. However, another reading of this FAQ might argue against this interpretation. This is important because it is much safer not to have to unload/reload your handgun in public, in your car, to transition from driving to parked, and parked to driving.

The OP said he isn't going to be carrying concealed, so he doesn't have this particular problem, but it is worth noting, in case he upgrades later.

Welcome to Mass.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

A license to carry with a sporting and hunting restriction is NOT a license to "carry."

MA has a funny definition of "carry". Unloaded in the trunk is legally "carrying".

But then, a handgun is not a firearm under MGL, and a Firearms ID Card does not let you buy or possess a handgun (though some argue to the contrary on the later point). It's sort of like driving on a parkway and parking on a driveway.

 

[M1911]

Call it what you like!

Court cases are damn near impossible to track as this stuff is in District Court usually and likely CWOF'd or any conviction isn't for what the arrest was for.

Bottom line: If you think it is legal for an unlicensed person to POSSESS ammo or components have at it. Do you let your students take home bullets and brass as souvenirs? If not, why not if it is legal as you claim.

Len, the licensed person in the car with them is the one in possession. And please stop with the strawman arguments.

I'm sorry, but you're off the reservation on this one.

 

[kalash]

So to reiterate. The fact that's it's a licence to carry (class A) means nothing if there is a restriction.

Yes, a license to carry does not necessarily allow you to carry. Welcome to Massachusetts, where nothing makes any sense.

PS: I lived and got my LTC in 02135 (Market/Wash area) and moved out of the city this year. Nice zip code to be in.

 

[jtnf]

Yes, a license to carry does not necessarily allow you to carry. Welcome to Massachusetts, where nothing makes any sense.

PS: I lived and got my LTC in 02135 (Market/Wash area) and moved out of the city this year. Nice zip code to be in.

"License To Carry" where being able to carry is optional, upon the whim of the chief local law enforcement officer (aka 351 cities and towns, 351 different sets of rules.)
"License to possess" runs afoul of Heller and McDonald, but Massachusetts regulations have yet to be challenged.

And my favorite example of your second sentence, long guns are not "firearms" in Massachusetts. Rifles are rifles, shotguns are shotguns, handguns are "firearms..." in most but not all of state law.

 

[92G]

God forbid your firearm is employed for defense, the restriction on the LTC will be least of worries.

 

[dcmdon]

The answer is in what you posted? Unload it, lock it in a case with ammo in a separate locked case in the trunk. IANAL and this is not legal advice.

Good because its not correct.

If you have a trunk, no locked case is necessary.

If you have a wagon or SUV a single locked case containing both firearms and ammunition is fine. Or put the gun in the case and leave the ammunition anywhere you want.

There is no legal requirement for transporting ammunition in MA.

Don't overthink it.

Don

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MA has a funny definition of "carry". Unloaded in the trunk is legally "carrying".

Except for when its "transporting".