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Borrowing a non compliant gun

EddieA

EddieA

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My free state brother has a non Mass gun that he seldom uses.
I've got the hots for it, but don't think a legit transfer can be done. (10 round mags, but not on the "lists")
I'm wondering about the legal implications of a long-term loan to me here in Mass.
 
I don't get it. I read these "can I have this or that" threads for knowledge and entertainment, and even so, after dozens of them, I still don't understand Mass gun laws. Theres some list of what dealers can sell, but no list as to what you can own accept "assault" weapons, 10 rd mags unless made after a certain date even if for the same weapon, Jesus, you need pre-counseling to even get into the sport up there. I lived in CT for a number of years but almost exclusively used a retired military home FFL guy who was well versed in the exemption for military personel so I avoided all the headaches of local shops "you can't have that" "I need a letter from your base commander" nonsense.

When I moved to Missouri last summer I went bezerk and still do, spent more on guns and reloading gear in a few weeks than I did in YEARS up in NE. It's like you dropped off a starving man to a great awesome, delicious buffet. My buddies didn't get it and still don't believe me when I tell them about the shops/culture towards guns up there.

OP, no help here, sorry for the tangent. I'm interested in the correct answer myself even if just to know.
 
"Borrowing" a gun from an out of state owner without going through an FFL sounds like a bad idea even in Missouri.
 
Wadcutter said:
"Borrowing" a gun from an out of state owner without going through an FFL sounds like a bad idea even in Missouri.
Click to expand...

Sorry, cant see it. As long as item is legal to possess here it is GTG, and I can't think of anything regulated here aside from NFA goodies. I can see where one might blur the line with "long term borrow" and "sale" but if it's family, who the hell is to not say his brother stores it at his place for when he visits? I mean, C'mon.
 
Borrowing a gun within Mass isn't generally a problem. Once you cross state lines, the rules change

18 USC 44 § 922(a)(5). It is illegal "to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person [...] who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in [...] the State in which the transferor resides" but it does not apply to "the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;"

"Long term borrow" from out of state not a good idea.
 
As long as you don't tell the cop "yeah, I've been borrowing it for 10 years" you'll be fine. Mass compliance is irrelevant, that's only for buying and transfering handguns.
 
EddieA said:
My free state brother has a non Mass gun that he seldom uses.
I've got the hots for it, but don't think a legit transfer can be done. (10 round mags, but not on the "lists")
I'm wondering about the legal implications of a long-term loan to me here in Mass.
Click to expand...

Why not buy the lower reciever,have it transfered to a MA ffl,reg it,shoot it ?
 
from the ATF FAQ
"He orshe may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and aNICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.govand http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exceptionfrom this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes."
 
jack sprat said:
Why not buy the lower reciever,have it transfered to a MA ffl,reg it,shoot it ?
Click to expand...

Because the lower receiver is the "gun". Ex: if a Mass dealer won't transfer a complete Gen 4 Glock to you, he still won't transfer a Gen 4 Glock with the slide removed.
 
Last edited:
Since I don't believe its' been said yet...

If you DO have this gun gifted by your friend to you, and you find a Massachusetts FFL willing to effect the transfer, DO NOT IDENTIFY THEM PUBLICLY! We know that the enemy reads these words, don't 'out' any dealer willing to do a transfer, or any online retailer willing to ship ammo or components, etc.
 
szaino said:
Borrowing a gun within Mass isn't generally a problem. Once you cross state lines, the rules change

18 USC 44 § 922(a)(5). It is illegal "to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person [...] who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in [...] the State in which the transferor resides" but it does not apply to "the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;"

"Long term borrow" from out of state not a good idea.
Click to expand...

First - a loan isn't a transfer. Second, the person borrowing the gun is not prohibited from going to the state where the lender lives and bringing the gun back.

- - - Updated - - -

jtnf said:
Since I don't believe its' been said yet...

If you DO have this gun gifted by your friend to you, and you find a Massachusetts FFL willing to effect the transfer, DO NOT IDENTIFY THEM PUBLICLY! We know that the enemy reads these words, don't 'out' any dealer willing to do a transfer, or any online retailer willing to ship ammo or components, etc.
Click to expand...
A loan is not a gift.
 
Maybe someone can confirm, but as I recall federal law allows borrowing, but no concealed carry of it, it would have to be for range only.
 
Meh... just obliterate the serial number on it, that way, if you get caught with it, they won't be able to prove it came from out of state illegally.
 
szaino said:
Borrowing a gun within Mass isn't generally a problem. Once you cross state lines, the rules change

18 USC 44 § 922(a)(5). It is illegal "to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person [...] who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in [...] the State in which the transferor resides" but it does not apply to "the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;"

"Long term borrow" from out of state not a good idea.
Click to expand...

Why the f*ck do gun laws need to be so f*cking difficult for the average person the understand?

Oh yeah, that's right, they want them to be.

We need much, much, much less government. And that will probably never happen.
 
goodzilla said:
Not exactly. According to MA, a firearm is capable of firing a shot.
Click to expand...

andrew1220 said:
Right. Per MGLs, a frame isn't a firearm since it cannot fire a shot.
Click to expand...

I did not know that. I believe my point still stands though. A Mass dealer that won't transfer complete non compliant gun to you also won't transfer just the lower receiver of non compliant to you either.
 
szaino said:
Borrowing a gun within Mass isn't generally a problem. Once you cross state lines, the rules change

18 USC 44 § 922(a)(5). It is illegal "to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person [...] who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in [...] the State in which the transferor resides" but it does not apply to "the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;"

"Long term borrow" from out of state not a good idea.
Click to expand...

psha.... define "temporary"

Varmint said:
As long as you don't tell the cop "yeah, I've been borrowing it for 10 years" you'll be fine. Mass compliance is irrelevant, that's only for buying and transfering handguns.
Click to expand...

through a DEALER, FTF is GTG
 
Last edited:
Long-term borrowing, especially if your friend doesn't expect to get the gun back or if money or other tangible goods or services are also involved, might constitute giving the gun, selling, or in the event that nothing is exchanged, might appear to be giving the firearm.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if this gun isn't on the approved firearm list it just means that FFL's in Massachusetts can't sell, right? For example, nothing from Springfield Armory is on the approved list, but that doesn't stop anyone from owning an XD-S or TRP legally in Massachusetts.
 
browncoat said:
First - a loan isn't a transfer. Second, the person borrowing the gun is not prohibited from going to the state where the lender lives and bringing the gun back.
Click to expand...

- I didn't say a loan was a transfer, read the rest of the sentence in the Reg...give, transport, or deliver..

- The OP asked specifically about a "long term borrow"- exception to the reg is temporary sporting use, hence my reply. We can all read between the lines.
 
inerlogic said:
psha.... define "temporary"
Click to expand...

Exactly, definition is very subjective and in a real life scenario if it becomes an issue, how would it be proven exactly how long you had the gun in Mass?

And, again you could argue what is temporary? Temporary use for sporting purposes ( USPSA or IDPA) could be until it is legal to do a transfer.
 

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