Bolt Rifle in .223 Remington 700/ Savage 10/ CZ 527

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Ive been toying around with the idea of adding a bolt gun in .223/5.56 as I already have AR/AK's in that caliber. This rifle will have a quality optic and bipod mounted and used at 300 yds to put holes in paper. I am looking for OUT OF THE BOX accuracy. Im not looking at this time to "build" the rifle and get into expensive modifications.

Here are the main 2 models Im looking at

Savage model 10 FCP-K

CZ 527 Varmint Target

I have amlost all but ruled out the reminton as the price to get one with a barrel with a 1:9 twist is MUCH higher than either of the other two.

Any thoughts?
 
Savage. Excellent accuracy. Plenty of aftermarket stuff available if you want to change anything down the road.
 
I have savage 10FP. it's heavy barrel and has their adjustable accutrigger also i .223. accuracy out of the box was impresive i only shot it at 100 and 200 yards but have no problem hitting 6 inch disk at either distance
I love it. Better than my rem700
 
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to be very frank i dont know why people consider the rem 700 when the savage is much better out of the box IMO and typically more affordable. The CZ is a work of art and is extremely accurate and well put together. compare and contrast the best prices you can get on either unit and go with the one thats more affordable. you will be more than pleased with either the model 10 or the 527. both will shoot moa or better. i have a uber cheap savage 243 axis that shoots moa when i do my part.

Dom
 
I agree with folks here. Don't get me wrong I love my Remington 700's but out of the box the heavy barrel Savage is a outstanding rifle. One bit of advise, don't skimp on the optics. Optic Plants .com has some great prices. I have a $250 Leupold on mine which is a 4x22x40. At 200 yards you should be able to bench rest and achieve groups as small as a dime!!!!!
 
i understand that i might be inviting some flaming but feel compelled to say it.
I use cheap VisionPlus chinese optics on my savage that i paid like 40 bucks shipped. i have no complains about it. i figured i'll try it and if it sucks - $40 is not that much money to chance it. figured if it's bad i'll get something like Nikon for couple of hundred but id din't need to. it has been 2 years and i still use it and after numerous range trips zero is still dead on. BTW i don't use hard case to transport it either.
 
one more advice about mounting the scope:
i found that scope rings + single piece base is not very good solution. at least it wasn't for me. i tried it and hated it. instead i bought scope rings that mount directly in the receiver Talley was the brand. mutch cleaner look and nothing obstructs when feeding cartridges into the mag through the open action.

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i understand that i might be inviting some flaming but feel compelled to say it.
I use cheap VisionPlus chinese optics on my savage that i paid like 40 bucks shipped. i have no complains about it. i figured i'll try it and if it sucks - $40 is not that much money to chance it. figured if it's bad i'll get something like Nikon for couple of hundred but id din't need to. it has been 2 years and i still use it and after numerous range trips zero is still dead on. BTW i don't use hard case to transport it either.

I agree with you, its all about what works for each shooter. I have an old Tapsco 6X that is clear and the parallax is great. If folks can get the results they want with less expensive optics I say go for it. I actually picked up my 3rd Remington 700 for $450 because the previous owner could not achieve good groupings. The scope was a BSA Platinum. I tried it out and the focus ring just spun loose. Then I have seen other lower end scopes produce great results. As I said if it works for ya, great go for it.
My preference however is the higher end optics, better glass IMHO.

As to mounts I use Leupold single rail with the windage adjustment rings when I can On my Marlin 45/70 lever gun I used a steel two piece with steel rings similar to what you have pictured. They work great. I also have a Wheeler scope mounting tool which guarantees the scope is mounted true. I have seen folks over tighten rings as well and ruin a scope. A good torque screw driver set is a must. Shooting out to 200 yards you can have your scope mounted by eye but when you start shooting out to 600 and further every minor error in mounting of the scope is magnified.
 
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I like both. The Savage will most likely be a bit more accurate out of the box but the bolt will be cycle much smoother on the Remington.
I never cared for Savage"s Accutrigger though it is better than the XMark piece of crap on the Remington. Since I replace all my triggers on Remington's with Timney's almost as soon as I get them home this is a non issue for me.
Both come in junk stocks unless you get a higher end rifle.
looks wise I personally much prefer the Remington Though looks has little to do with how the rifle functions it does weigh in on the decision as far as I'm concerned
I much preferrer the Winchester Model 70 to ether of these though I do own a Remington as well as my Winchester. I have owned my Winchester model 70 for around 30 years It was the first new firearm I ever bought.It has been the single most reliable piece of equipment of any kind I have ever owned.
I have owned two Savages over the years ultimatly trading both off for other guns.
At one time I would have said that the Remington was a bit higher quality than the Savage but now not so much.
I personaly think you would be better off with a Winchester though they generaly cost more.
 
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Mossberg MVP
It takes Ar mags

I have no real need or desire for a bolt gun that uses hi cap mags as I dont really see the point I like the fact that they all have a 1:9 twist as opposed to remington's 1:12 but I question mossbergs ability to deliver a top quality product with every product that leaves there production line.

I would rather spend a bit more and get a proven performer than take a chance to save a little $$ and get something Im unhappy with and will only turn around and sell. I dont buy "new" guns often and I would rather buy once and and have a quality rifle and optic for the long term
 
Tikka gets great reviews, especially as it's a 1 in 8" twist. Are you concerned about aftermarket accessories, stocks etc, or are you planning on keeping the factory stock?
I run a .223 Remington 700 LTR in AICS. Works great out to 300 yards (that's the maximum range I have access to on a regular basis).
 
I have savage 10FP. it's heavy barrel and has their adjustable accutrigger also i .223. accuracy out of the box was impresive i only shot it at 100 and 200 yards but have no problem hitting 6 inch disk at either distance
I love it. Better than my rem700

Keep in mind that 6" at 200 yards is 3 MOA. Nothing to write home about especially when talking about a precision scoped rifle fired off a bipod in a bench/prone.
 
Keep in mind that 6" at 200 yards is 3 MOA. Nothing to write home about especially when talking about a precision scoped rifle fired off a bipod in a bench/prone.

Tikka makes an excellent product that is very accurate but from what o have reaseached this comes at a premium price without a lot of aftermarket options..... I want to be able to shoot the rifle as is for 4-5 years before/if I want to build it further but I would like the option to be able to modify it as my interest progresses.

As far as savage accuracy and 6" groups the savage has a pretty well documented history of moa or better out of the box so I'm not to worried there.

Currently the Savage 10fcp-k is my 1st choice but I wonder if the better Kevlar stock and set trigger on the cz out way the "boring" out of the box accuracy of the savage
If someone want to recommend a $500ish type optic and their experience that would be appeeciates axasel
 
A lightly used Tikka runs around $500-600. I would have gotten one, except I want to use a chassis systems, and you have to modify the Tikka action to fit .223 AICS magazines which most systems have.
I had good luck with Nikon Buckmasters 4-16 Side Focus, mil-dot. They are around 200-250. Various Super Sniper models from SWFA have good reviews as well. Also make sure to get a decent set of base/rings.
 
My understanding is that CZ is not made in America. If that is true I won't but one as I prefer to keep American workers and American jobs in America. I do not know what you do for work, but I am sure you do not want me or anyone else buying something you also produce from a foreign company. Now if only a foreign company makes a product, like a TV, well then I have to buy foreign.

Now as for the Remington and Savage, I own one Savage firearm and have had four or five 700s, without a doubt the 700's are all made better (better steel, fit, and finish). All the Remingtons have one hole accuracy at 100 yards with they right ammo. The Savage does have the accutrigger and it is better that the Remington triggers except for the Remingtons I have that are over 30 years old.

Dave
 
Make sure that the bolt gun you choose, will work with the ammo you want to shoot. Most of the Rem 700's are .223 NOT 5.56 chambers. I know that the tactical/ police ones are in 5.56 but the cheaper ones sold at Dick's are .223 only
 
Now as for the Remington and Savage, I own one Savage firearm and have had four or five 700s, without a doubt the 700's are all made better (better steel, fit, and finish). All the Remingtons have one hole accuracy at 100 yards with they right ammo. The Savage does have the accutrigger and it is better that the Remington triggers except for the Remingtons I have that are over 30 years old.

Dave

Dave,

old guns like yours will always have better triggers from pure use. but i find the statement that all the 700's are built better a little hard to swallow. My friend jason is an avid remington fan and to be totally honest every gun of his I've ever shot wasn't nearly as nice as a savage of comparable price. the bolt cycling was gritty, they didn't like to pick up rounds, and the triggers were horrendous. Recently he purchased a "police tactical" with a short barrel in 308 which has been his nicest gun. adjustable trigger, bull barrel, nice stock. That has been the only gun ive been impressed with to date.

Im not bashing the remingtons because i have shot many of them and most are typically accurate. i have never ever seen any of them be one hole accurate but certainly moa or close, there is a reason people build them.

Quick comment on the CZ and buying foreign (and this is my feeling on the matter). People can and should purchase what ever they like, and to be frank the CZ products are very very nice. fit and finish is tops with accuracy to boot, buying american is fine and dandy but there are so many well made foreign guns its hard to just buy domestic. I love my rugers and smiths and colts, but my sigs are great and so were my glocks and such.

Dom
 
Make sure that the bolt gun you choose, will work with the ammo you want to shoot. Most of the Rem 700's are .223 NOT 5.56 chambers. I know that the tactical/ police ones are in 5.56 but the cheaper ones sold at Dick's are .223 only
Do you have any links/cites to back up that statement?
 
A little off the subject of bolt guns, but have you considered a single shot break action such as the H&R Handi-rifle or Ultra Varmint hunter. I have personally shot bolt action target rifles, as well as break actions, and I tell you what, I will always love that single shot H&R my uncle had in .223. That was a friggen tack driver, and you could squeeze off sub moa groups out of that all day long. If having a bolt gun is a must, I can't say enough about the Savage right out of the box with the AccuTrigger. I have the Savage .17 hmr with the AccuTrigger, and with Hornady ammo at 100 plus, shes an amazing rifle.

In the end, you have to be happy with the purchase that you make.
 
Quick comment on the CZ and buying foreign (and this is my feeling on the matter). People can and should purchase what ever they like, and to be frank the CZ products are very very nice. fit and finish is tops with accuracy to boot, buying american is fine and dandy but there are so many well made foreign guns its hard to just buy domestic. I love my rugers and smiths and colts, but my sigs are great and so were my glocks and such.

Dom

Hi Dom,

I am not bashing your opinion (or the fit, finish, price, or performance of the CZ as I know almost nothing about them). What I do know is the American ecomony is in the shit, Any cent I or anyone else sends overseas does not help the American worker, corporation, or the country. It doesn't help to keep Americans employed nor does it help to give unemployed Americans jobs. It will however, keep the unemployed on the governemnt tit. It isn't limited to guns, it applies to almost everything.

As far as guns go, whether it is a .22 for plinking, a defense handgun you can stake your life on, a rifle or shotgun for hunting, or a benchrest rifle, there is nothing made in America that will not meet your needs. There is no reason to buy foreign.

Dave
 
If you are just shooting out to 300 yards, a 1/12 is fine. If you are competing against others or shooting much further you might want a faster twist and heavier bullets. Honestly a 9 twist is not that great. It's hit or miss with 77s.

B
 
Hi Dom,

I am not bashing your opinion (or the fit, finish, price, or performance of the CZ as I know almost nothing about them). What I do know is the American ecomony is in the shit, Any cent I or anyone else sends overseas does not help the American worker, corporation, or the country. It doesn't help to keep Americans employed nor does it help to give unemployed Americans jobs. It will however, keep the unemployed on the governemnt tit. It isn't limited to guns, it applies to almost everything.

As far as guns go, whether it is a .22 for plinking, a defense handgun you can stake your life on, a rifle or shotgun for hunting, or a benchrest rifle, there is nothing made in America that will not meet your needs. There is no reason to buy foreign.

Dave

Just like anything else there are many reasons to buy stuff thats made outside the USA. The company with the highest quality/performance/to cost ratio gets my money. When you put a $350 CZ rimfire rifle next to anything from any of the big american mfgs there really is a HUGE difference. Im not a CZ fanboy as I dont even own one, but we stock them at the shop I work at accasionally and Im NEVER not impressed with their quality for the price. As far as my job or line of work, Im hired because Im really good at what I do and not because of where I was born or live. All that being said Im leaning in the direction of the Savage[smile]

If you are just shooting out to 300 yards, a 1/12 is fine. If you are competing against others or shooting much further you might want a faster twist and heavier bullets. Honestly a 9 twist is not that great. It's hit or miss with 77s.

B

BPM I know you are most likely the best marksman on this forum and probably the whole northeast so your input in appreciated! Nope no competitions here.... I used 75's out of my 1:7 WOA upper to shoot XC service rifle a few times but I just dont have the time for regular matches that take up whole sundays ( my only days off with the family right now ) I dont even own a rifle with a scope except for my MN sniper and have always wanted a decent setup with nice optics.... Ive gotten to the point with shooting where Im much happier going to the range and shooting 50 rounds with my rimfire target rifle and making decent little groups over the course of a couple hours than pulling up with a truck load of ammo and blowing hundreds of rounds all over a target.
 
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BPM I know you are most likely the best marksman on this forum and probably the whole northeast so your input in appreciated! Nope no competitions here.... I used 75's out of my 1:7 WOA upper to shoot XC service rifle a few times but I just dont have the time for regular matches that take up whole sundays ( my only days off with the family right now ) I dont even own a rifle with a scope except for my MN sniper and have always wanted a decent setup with nice optics.... Ive gotten to the point with shooting where Im much happier going to the range and shooting 50 rounds with my rimfire target rifle and making decent little groups over the course of a couple hours than pulling up with a truck load of ammo and blowing hundreds of rounds all over a target.

I'm honored by your accolades, but unfortunately I'm not quite as good as you suspect. I understand where you are coming from. HP takes quite a lot of time and I struggle with the time requirements to get to the matches I attend.

The M16 & A1 had 1/12 twist barrels and the USMC use to shoot them to 500 yards with the M193 55rd ball ammo. A 1/12 would certainly work for shooting out to 300 yards as your OP mentioned. If you stay focused on getting a 1/9 twist barrel, you might miss out on a good rifle with a 12 twist.

If you were going to regularly shoot out further than 300 yards, I would suggest skipping right over the 9 and going to an 8 as that will comfortable handle all but the longest of match bullets where as the 9 twist is hit or miss with 77s. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't

B
 
I'm honored by your accolades, but unfortunately I'm not quite as good as you suspect.

That's a good one. [rofl]

(In case anyone's wondering, he's being almost obscenely modest here.)
 
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