BOHICA: Vermont Gun Owners

[pastera]

@Broc, I've written plenty for you to know what I mean. Hell, I think it was my first post on this topic where I said suppressor regulation is a particularly egregious example of pointless regulation we could stand a real chance to get loosened rather than tightened with even a modicum of diplomacy. I am not for 'more regulation' at all, I am for preemptively defining the terms of the debate since we're never going to have absolute freedom to have anything, anywhere, any time, at any age no matter what our criminal history. My argument is that absolutism is futile and if we can't establish ourselves as 'reasonable' to relatively disinterested voters outside the 'have a drawer full of holsters we ended up not liking' set, we're gonna loose all our rights to the nanny state.

Enlighten me, how do you define 'Fudd'? I define it as a person who may, to a point, shoot but has a stick up their nether regions and little to no experience with firearms to back up their claims of hands-on expertise and 'rule making' behaviors. The R.O. who says "no rapid fire" if you're going through more than ten rounds a minute, who tells you that you must have a manual safety instead of saying they prefer them and why. The guy who thinks Sig 320's climb out of their cases and holsters and shoot kittens every day but who's never even heard of Glock Leg. The guy who owns a gun but wants to make it unreasonably hard for anyone else to get one despite never actually firing, even understanding their own in any serious way. The ones too dumb to point out that 'may issue' is mechanism of racist/classist control as the way to win the argument and that if you're gonna win that argument so you can keep your rights, you can't be a racist or classist.

[edit] P.S. "Never sh*t all over anyone who hasn't directly and repeatedly (or violently) personally attacked you" is a good strategy for life. It's way, way, too easy to win by living better than to stoop to sh*ting on somebody. Learning that lesson, perhaps too late in life, has been incredibly beneficial to me and I sincerely hope you get to enjoy the good fortune that comes from that approach. And, no, that does not mean being a humorless stick in the mud so afraid of offending you can't have some fun and make crass jokes. [/edit]

FUD comes from Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt
They are usually very uniformed and hard headed while at the same time being whimpering cowards when pushed by any social or political force.

Because they are ignorant of what the American culture of freedom and firearms actually is, they fear any attack against it because they are powerless in their ignorance to mount any defense of their position at all. Therfore they swing with the wind of the loudest voice.
They are the Germans who called on their neighbors in vain attempt to endear themselves to the brown shirts.

 

[SIGNES]

Oh that FUD I associate with the tech biz (Don't by THAT product it'll eat your data, buy ours instead.) than the firearms community. Fudd, with two D's I always associated with Elmer Fudd,,, I saw a difference, I can totally be wrong.

 

[s&w3913]

This is what happens when hippies vote. Vermont just out-Massachusetts' Massachusetts.

I remember when VT was more of liberals with guns (I have been corrected that not all liberals are left whatever TF that means).. they didn't care.. VT will quicky become the next NY..

The brady law all ready does this.. if your flagged.. anyhow what difference does this all make...

 

[Mesatchornug]

Oh that FUD I associate with the tech biz (Don't by THAT product it'll eat your data, buy ours instead.) than the firearms community. Fudd, with two D's I always associated with Elmer Fudd,,, I saw a difference, I can totally be wrong.

You're right. They are different.

Fudd, as in Elmer, is a prohibitionist who thinks it's okay to tell others what they can own and claims appeal to authority based on his history with firearms. Example: I've been shooting for 40 years; no one needs a machine gun.

This is the same as artists for censorship. Example: Will Smith don't gotta cuss in his raps to sell records...

 

[paul73]

same as artists for censorship

very true, but artists who praise the general line of the party and loyal are usually set for life.
marxism can be an extremely profitable and lucrative business, if ran correctly, and there is enough material available to turn into slaves to serve the pre-selected collective.

 

[SIGNES]

You're right. They are different.

Fudd, as in Elmer, is a prohibitionist who thinks it's okay to tell others what they can own and claims appeal to authority based on his history with firearms. Example: I've been shooting for 40 years; no one needs a machine gun.

This is the same as artists for censorship. Example: Will Smith don't gotta cuss in his raps to sell records...

I said we have existing federal controls in place, and used them (and much more in the post about Glock switches and the like) as an example of an area where negotiated compromise that could even fix some of the very problematic aspects of the NFA (antithetical to safety limitations on suppressors which a lot of people completely misread) might let us keep having them.

No artist worth a damn wants to be censored. That said, tt sure didn't hurt Pink Floyd's bank account that they chose to release a 'radio friendly' edit of Money. For some truly remarkable advocacy against censorship, go watch Frank Zappa and Dee Snider testifying before Congress on the PMRC. They did a marvelous job of advocating for their rights (and ours) with a tone and tenor that helped stop Tipper's insanity. There are lessons from their tone and tenor. There's a lesson to be learned from the "Parental Advisory" [bad] compromise and how it ended up being a sales tool that helped make countless careers.

This Serrano is a beautiful photograph: https://static01.nyt.com/images/201...arge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

I'd love to see what the reaction would be on these boards to an informed advocacy for Robert Mapplethorpe's work would be. Who posted slurs would be revealing.

(Never fired full auto but I have a promise from a friend to let me have a go with one of his that I'm really looking forward to.)

 

[Mesatchornug]

No artist worth a damn wants to be censored.

Sure

But many are happy to see others censored.

 

[babygorilla]

Seems like a solution looking for a problem in VT.

 

[Admin]

I was in Burlington last weekend, It's thankfully my daughters last year at UVM. I've noticed a change in just the four years she's been there. I can't believe how much hotel rooms cost up there. We stayed at a pretty decent hotel and like others have said there were people hanging out, partying in the parking lot. They had a grill going etc. I was concerned about my truck so called the front desk. They basically brushed it off as normal. My daughter tells me about people she knows getting robbed at gunpoint, cars vandalized, theft etc. The cops tell the victims "Sorry there isn't much we can do". The politicians bought into the defund police thing and crime skyrocketed. They're trying to walk that back now.
Saw A young guy early Saturday morning all messed up on something. This guy was Tweaked. Not the usual heroin or drunk thing. Then at noon a guy was shot in the chest on Main St.
It was a pretty cool city just four years ago,

Did UVM turn her in to a lefty?

 

[tuna]

The hippies in VT are up in the NEK, carrying guns and knives and reading 40 year old copies of Mother Earth News. They mostly don't vote, and don't give a damn what the law says.

It's night and day the difference a 45 minute ride makes going from Beecher Falls to Newport. Get to Burlington and it's another world.


And a Fudd is someone who thinks a firearm needs a sporting use to be authorized for civilians. Unfortunately for me, it's also confused with people who don't shoot the newest Tommy Tacticool crap while wearing a full LARPing outfit to pretend I'm in the military. Don't worry, I will support your Gay R-15s, because I know what happens after they take your plastic fantastics and your little toy rifles...they go after actual weapons of war, like 1911s and 1903 Springfields. Yeah - true back to back World War champs, suck it LARPers.

 

[StevieP]

Does the waiting period apply to all gun purchases? Or just your first?

Because if you already have 'an arsenal' of firearms, what possible purpose would a waiting period serve?

 

[Danor]

Did UVM turn her in to a lefty?

She's pretty normal, kind of on the fence but listens and thinks about what I tell her. My younger one goes to Suffolk. Shes getting exposed to the full indoctrination but the wife and I are working on it. As long as they don't have blinders on and will listen to alternate opinions, I think there's hope. the ones with the lib parents are screwed.

 

[SIGNES]

Does the waiting period apply to all gun purchases? Or just your first?

Because if you already have 'an arsenal' of firearms, what possible purpose would a waiting period serve?

How would they know if it's your first without a registry?

I think they imagine the waiting period being a means to reduce suicide and 'crimes of passion' by gun hoping that, after three days, you'll have reconsidered rather than have been so committed you'd spend a couple of hours plus buying a gun expressly for the purpose.

How much reduction in these things you'd get by making people take long enough to go to their LGS, choose, complete a 4473, wait for the response, be passed, manage to seem clear headed enough to prevent your LGS salesperson from saying "nope, you're way too sketch for me to want this on my conscience", pay and go back to do your evil deed vs 72 hours is left as an exercise for the reader.

That said, for my priorities, not having to NFA a suppressor or an SBR in exchange for enduring a 72 hour wait to close firearms purchases is a trade I'd make.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Does the waiting period apply to all gun purchases? Or just your first?

Because if you already have 'an arsenal' of firearms, what possible purpose would a waiting period serve?

Or a private old school transfer.

 

[Dennis in MA]

This is what happens when hippies vote. Vermont just out-Massachusetts' Massachusetts.

No. No. Vermont is wickit-free. Didn't you hear???

People just don't listen. Just because the CURRENT law is in your favor doesn't mean that winds aren't blowing heavily into your face. VT is going to get worse and worse. It's inevitable. Only court cases will stop them.

 

[Zappa]

Update:

Vermont governor allows 72-hour waiting period gun bill to become law

Republican Gov. Phil Scott of Vermont has allowed a bill that requires a 72-hour waiting period for the purchase of guns to become law without his signature, saying he feels his concerns about the provision’s constitutionality will be addressed through the courts. The Legislature passed the bill...

www.necn.com

Instead of vetoing the bill, Gov. Phil Scott let's the bill pass without his signature.
So even if the courts strike down the waiting period part, the other provisions in the bill will remain in place.

The legislation also creates a crime of negligent firearms storage and expands the state’s extreme risk protection orders so that a state’s attorney, the attorney general’s office or a family or household member may ask a court to prohibit a person from purchasing, possessing or receiving a dangerous weapon.

 

[01bmf]

The hippies in VT are up in the NEK, carrying guns and knives and reading 40 year old copies of Mother Earth News. They mostly don't vote, and don't give a damn what the law says.

Dead on the money right there. I tend to run with some of the "hippies" up here. hippie =/= programmed UVM students and Chittenden County whitey-lighties. There is still a lot of leave me the f*** alone going on up here. They don't gripe about the law much; but rather choose not to comply.

 

[hillman]

Does the waiting period apply to all gun purchases? Or just your first?

Because if you already have 'an arsenal' of firearms, what possible purpose would a waiting period serve?

All purchases, despite 51% of VT homes already having firearms in them. Totally mind boggling.

 

[Da_lucche]

Vermont needs to keep dem pesky white supremists from having easy access to dem guns.

 

[GL2020]

All purchases, despite 51% of VT homes already having firearms in them. Totally mind boggling.

51% ?
I would have guessed higher. I spent a lot of time in central Vermont during the mid 80’s and outside of a couple old ladies in light blue cardigans headed to the local UU church, I couldn’t find anyone that didn’t at least have a deer rifle. The Vermont work calendar revolved around deer season and “camp” then. It was just as common as seeing a television to walk into to someone’s house and see a shotgun propped up in the corner or a couple rifles on a rack in the living room.

 

[hillman]

51% ?
I would have guessed higher. I spent a lot of time in central Vermont during the mid 80’s and outside of a couple old ladies in light blue cardigans headed to the local UU church, I couldn’t find anyone that didn’t at least have a deer rifle. The Vermont work calendar revolved around deer season and “camp” then. It was just as common as seeing a television to walk into to someone’s house and see a shotgun propped up in the corner or a couple rifles on a rack in the living room.

That's the most recent statistic I could find, though it's still speculation as there are so many older folks that own guns that were never put on a form back in the day.

 

[GL2020]

That's the most recent statistic I could find, though it's still speculation as there are so many older folks that own guns that were never put on a form back in the day.

I also suspect my experience, besides dated, was somewhat regional. In central part of the state the cities are small (you could walk across the length of the main road of the capital city in 10 minutes) and most towns around a rural, but most of the population is in Burlington, Colchester and Essex. Probably not as common there.

 

[chris_1001]

My (commie) ex wife moved to VT a few years ago. Feel free to blame her. I’ll bet she was part of this crap.

 

[rali]

I spent a lot of time in central Vermont during the mid 80’s and outside of a couple old ladies in light blue cardigans headed to the local UU church, I couldn’t find anyone that didn’t at least have a deer rifle. The Vermont work calendar revolved around deer season and “camp” then.

This is still very much the case.

 

[dwarven1]

Did UVM turn her in to a lefty?

She'd be the rarity if it didn't. Although there IS a UVM Pistol Team - I won a Glock (yes, Mr. I Hate Glocks himself!) at their last Steel Challenge match up at Lamoille Valley Fish & Game.

It's night and day the difference a 45 minute ride makes going from Beecher Falls to Newport. Get to Burlington and it's another world.

"The nice thing about Burlington is that it's so close to Vermont!"
- Nickel

Does the waiting period apply to all gun purchases? Or just your first?

Because if you already have 'an arsenal' of firearms, what possible purpose would a waiting period serve?

ALL. Because it's gun control, which makes the leftists in Montpeculiar wet themselves.

 

[Lank]

Most of the hotels around Burlington have been invaded by drug addicted mendicants. Available hotels are around $250- $300 because of lack of availability. I ended up staying at a dump in Colchester for $125 where half the hotel was taken up by vagrants. They were loitering in the parking lot drinking 40’s and smoking whatever. Every night there was a fight.

That sucks.

Is the spanked puppy still around?

 

[TG Pioneer]

That sucks.

Is the spanked puppy still around?

I have no idea what that is.

 

[Lank]

I have no idea what that is.

Old bar. Probably gone for decades

 

[backinblack]

Old bar. Probably gone for decades

Nope. Still here! In fact, the police had to break up a bar fight there just last night...!

 

[TG Pioneer]

Old bar. Probably gone for decades

I tend to stay away from bars out of town. Every fight you avoid is a fight you’ve won.