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WTB Boat

Discussion in 'NES Yard Sale' started by 1776, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    WTB Boat (I must be crazy). Looking for something not to small and not to big, 22-28?. Trailerable with a one ton truck. Fairly open, but with a head and maybe overnight or weekend capable. I'm not a sport, so I'm not really looking for a modern "Sport" model. Also not looking for a "Stupid Money" boat. A Parker type Cabin or Walk-Around would be a good example. No junk or wood, but would inspire wood!
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
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  2. ablediver

    ablediver NES Member

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    I don't have one to sell, but I can point you into a couple of directions. First one: look through Craigslist under " free items". There's a dealer/ whatever in Abington, that gives away trailer-less boats. I can't guarantee condition, but it's a lead and it's a free boat. Second : Helping Hands of America on RT1 in Wrentham, MA. Go there regularly, and you'll find some beasts and occasionally a really good buy. I passed up an immaculate 19 ft runabout lake boat with a 350 CI Chevy on a trailer for $2200. Cleanest oil I ever saw on a boat engine . I couldn't use it, the freeboard was too low for near-shore diving. Wicked nice boat though and a bargain. The guy there was astonished I didn't buy it. I'd stay away from a boat broker in Mashpee, he has auction boats that are from public agencies that have seen better days. At any rate, hope this helps.
    Just my $.02
     
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  3. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    I looked at a 2009 24' with a 200hp outboard. Owner wanted 40k, credit union said 35k. His annual cost is over 8k/yr for turnkey marina service and storage, then delivery to his private dock in front of one of his two 1M+ waterfront houses. I checked under all the access hatches and covers and found it was covered with black mold. At 8k+ lbs, these are not weekend trailerable, especially behind a truck camper.

    Then I looked at a 32 that we could easily stay 3-4 days on. That would cost about 1k/m to keep at a slip with marina storage and maintenance. One engine quit on a sea trial. Two of the 32's had under 500 hrs, and both had engine problems due to very little use. It looks like stuck rings are not uncommon on the V8's.

    The Newport boat show is this weekend, so I'll see whats new in the 21' trailerable range. The problem is, what do you do at the end of the day after being out on the water. Trailer it home while falling asleep, or pay a marina for a slip for a large boat that's going to cost 1k/m plus your time to maintain and money to purchase. Campgrounds are becoming expensive and are a PIA to get a time slot in. We spent a lot of time on the water many years ago with a roll up zodiac and a 15hp, both 75lbs each, that we carried inside our truck camper. The cost per hour for on the water time was reasonable and not stupid money down the toilet.

    I just scrapped my 19' cuddy that was never used as I intended to behind the first truck camper. But I still have the trailer which is good for a 22 up the 3k lbs, unless I add a second axle.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
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  4. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy NES Member

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    On the 16 yard line, shootin' for the Lewis!
    Have you ever owned a boat before other than the inflatibles?
     
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  5. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    I went to the Newport Boat show and saw many many reasons why I shouldn't buy a boat. I did like the Ranger R-31CB for a stupid $340k. A used one just sold by owner for $135k, which I was told was a good deal. My credit union uses NADA values which is typically half of what is being asked for overpriced used boats. A Cape Dory 30 flybridge is one i'd like used with twin diesels. One broker said to not hesitate at a 20-30% reduced offer. A reasonable camper on the water looks like at least a 1500-2000/month commitment. The marinas I visited during the week were dead silent, with many many low hour holes in the water becoming inoperable due to non use. Gas models depreciate at about 10% per year, and 5% for diesel. Bow and/or stern thrusters for a single screw, or twin screws without getting screwed is such a difficult decision!
     
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  6. Asaltweapon

    Asaltweapon NES Member

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    My Whaler is sitting in MA right now. LOL
     
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  7. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    I have a harpoon!
     
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  8. 76Too

    76Too NES Member

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    If it fly's, floats or f***s...eventually you're going to run into a serious problem.
     
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  9. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Risk management....don't do to crazy, maybe a little crazy? Then there's PIA mitigation management.

    The fractional ownership discussions at the show were interesting. One week on a large cat worked out to be around 2500/week for two on a large 4 stateroom cat. Add plane fare, food, etc. and your up to 4k/week, which is half the cost of a boating season at a slip in a marina for a 30-35 footer. I have to look at co-ownering in this area.

    The Keys to a Successful Boat Sharing Agreement - Boat Ed blog
    ShareMyYacht.com - Yacht Charters, Rentals, Partnerships, Services and More

    Watch out for those free pipe cleaning service offers!!! Tough to get rid of, like black mold! Hey sailor.....

    Then there's the Waterworld SHTF preparedness experience


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKFsmZhQWtg
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  10. Asaltweapon

    Asaltweapon NES Member

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    If you are looking at fractional ownership there was a place in Boston that was doing it. The name escapes me right now. Having to arrange plane fare is a PITA and if the weather is going to suck then what.

    Lugging all your crap onto and off the boat gets old fast but its a way to get OTW without the high cost of ownership. Owning a boat is not cheap.
     
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  11. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Agreed. Co-owning a local boat would be my preference. I'm looking at these options due to my seasonal campground rate going up to 7k next year, then +1k for the following two years. Yikes...9k
     
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  12. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    I looked at a mid 80's vintage trawler this weekend with dual Volvo diesels and a Westebeke generator. The generator was so loud you couldn't hear anyone talking. The starboard engine shook and rattled everything in the boat. Run all three and get one hell of a backrub! This was a high grade shabby neglected hole in the water. Dry rot and water stains on the interior, with junkyard quality vintage appliances. A couple more I looked at in marina's with for sale signs on the way home came with the "I'm downsizing" to a smaller boat from the owners or brokers callback. Golly gee batman, they only burn 35 gallons per hour. And then the final "I'm just not feeling this" from "The Wife" torpedo

    Since nothing smaller than a cruise ship tied to a dock will be suitable for "The Wife", it's time to look back at minimal over nighter+ 29-30' range options. I'll be checking out a couple with single and dual Yanmar's. I saw one listing that has a name of "Nooner", didn't think of that! Turn on the diesel's!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  13. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Carver 325 Aft Cabin
    **********Carver 325 Aft Cabin *******

    Here's one that was paid for the bottom to be cleaned by the potential buyer. Owner slimed out of that. The cleaning revealed that it needs a 4-5k soda blast bottom re-finish because it was so poorly done and maintained. It didn't make it more than 300yds out for a sea trail before one of the engines, which was down half a quart of oil, quit. The broker would not provide any previous maintenance records, and will not provide any current ones to prove what was done to get it running again. A compression check request was refused, and delivery to another boat yard would not be done as a term of purchase. The neglected bottom paint and lack of records by a fly by night mechanic that will no longer return phone calls of what was done was appalling. I was told that a fly by night non boatyard cheap shrink wrappers job failed and flooded the boat during winter storage on land. The AC's and other parts on a 20+ year old boat can easily be another 10k. Don't forget the loose stanchions with water intrusion and fiberglass delamination. Sounds like Shabby Maintenance that resulted in a sea trial failure! Broker's are pure slim bags who will lie, hide, and deceive to make their commission. Fortunately this 35 gallon per hour gas burner is no longer a desirable model, and has been for sale for quite a few years.

    Here's a solution to the propulsion problem


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fyQtUjqY3M
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
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  14. 01906

    01906 NES Member

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    I don't know what you looking to spend? My father has a the 2017 Whaler Conquest 315 for sale. It has under 20 hours on it. It has the upgraded Electronics. 8 year warranty. Spent close to 350,000 a year ago. Would take 265,000
     
  15. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Very nice, but not that much. The wife would do a Bobbit on that one. Just for reference, NADA lists a 2016 but not a 2017. Baseline model list price was 247, low retail 163 and average retail 185. I couldn't start to guess what a 100k in options would be. Boat US and my bank use NADA to establish insurable and loan value.

    2017 Boston Whaler 315 Conquest Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XMd8AnEJBA
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
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  16. 01906

    01906 NES Member

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    It is has 55,000 in electronics alone. Along with every other option possible. 8 year extended warranty which would have seven left was 20,000. The Marina has it listed for 289,900. As far as hole in the water, I agree. It is by far his stupidest purchase yet. Believe me he's made a lot of them.
     
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  17. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Can I exercise it occasionally for him?
     
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  18. Asaltweapon

    Asaltweapon NES Member

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    Go talk to Brian at South Shore Dry Dock. Most boat brokers were formally used car salesmen.

    Final wash on mine this weekend then it's wrap time.
     
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  19. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    I dealt with South Shore Dry Dock, and they are the biggest bunch of slim balls according to me and all the other Brokers I talked to. LHD = Lie, Hide, Deceive!
    Whenever I ask for objective evidence of something, they either ignored the request or said its not available until after I leave a deposit.
    I told one of them that I always assume they will LHD.

    I'd have no problem having them hold a target like Bruce Willis did in Day of the Jackal


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyXdB_AYiDs
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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  20. Bmcl322

    Bmcl322 NES Member

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    I went from a 14' Grady White Lapstrake
    to a 1967 16'7" Boston Whaler
    to a 1975 22' Mako (I gutted it and rebuilt the deck/transom, etc.)
    to a 2007 240 Everglades (now called the 250)
    - this is my actual vessel -

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMlCACo1WcM


    Each time I buy, it is during a downturn in the economy. Too many buy boats on credit. Worst possible choice! I bought my Everglades for 40 cents on the dollar in Key Largo (as a repo) in 2010. Boat still runs flawlessly. Arguably the best CC Boat made. It's a Tank!! A Bob Dougherty boat (of Boston Whaler and Edgewater fame).

    (Albeit I do like Regulators, as they are the 2nd heaviest boat in their class behind Everglades).

    Keep in mind that if you buy an older (pre-2005ish) fiberglass boat, almost all have marine plywood in the deck and most importantly in the transom. & many transoms are soggy moosh and their owners don't even know it. Bring a hammer and do a tap test on the Transom.

    Also, if you can reach any 2 part foam that has been used between the inner shell and outer hull, press it. If it is wet like a sponge, it is useless.

    If you can wait for the next downturn in the economy, boats are the 1st value items to drop dramatically in price as people scramble to save their over-mortgaged and now undervalued Real Estate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  21. mjbitt

    mjbitt NES Member

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    Find a friend with a boat, Its a lot cheaper
     
  22. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  23. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Most of my "Friends" are to cheap to buy a boat. The more money they have, the cheaper they are. I'll take them out if they wear hooks on their feet!
     
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  24. Asaltweapon

    Asaltweapon NES Member

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    The problem mostly lies in the fact that so many people want free boat rides.

    The intent of the deposit is to prove that you are serious before they waste their time. On larger scale purchase you look at the boat, you like the boat, you drop a returnable deposit on said boat and if it fails the marine survey you walk away from the deal with your money back in your hand or you come to an agreement on repairs and/or reduction in price.
    When I bought my Conquest I saw, I liked, I arranged the hull and engine survey. My offer was based on what the surveyor wrote, (excellent condition, no engine codes with print outs from a Yamaha certified tech) round trip airfare, sea trial, wire transfer funds, arranged the trailer service, had it shrink wrapped and then have it hauled up to MA from West Palm Beach.

    If I had a buyer the process would be the same. You look, you like, we agree to an offer based on passing survey/sea trial, ect. You could bypass the survey part but that boat is not getting wet (unless it's all ready in the water) without a deposit. Period. That all said. anyone selling a boat that is not 100% operational and ready to run is not somebody I would be doing business with in the first place. I'm not into buying someone else's headaches and problem. There are just too many good boats out there that are properly maintained.

    NOW, If you would like to talk about inept marine surveyors I got a story for you about a guy who had a survey done. What a shit show that boat turned into after purchase.
     
  25. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Now if you had a survey that could be used by perspective buyers to get a loan and insurance, it would prove that you were serious about selling your boat. I have seen this done. If the survey is less than a year old, it's usable. The buyer would also have a better basis for conducting his own survey. Some sellers and brokers use the buyers survey, by watching it be done, to identify problems without having to pay to find them. Then they fish for the next buyer.

    Buying an old Boat
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  26. Asaltweapon

    Asaltweapon NES Member

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    True but I would never rely on a sellers survey for the purchase. The idea is to obtain a true condition of the vessel from an impartial party.

    Have you poked around the FL market?
     
  27. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    I agree, it's only a baseline that would help me decide to have my own survey done. If I had doubts and no prior survey, I walk away.
    I just had a survey done on a private party 28' with a trailer today. I didn't have to pay for a short haul. It will be a challenge for the surveyor to come up with a value for all the boat show special options it came with. The owner overpaid because he wanted it, and now may want more than the survey values it. The link above says to just pay more for another boat, after accessing the potential risk area's on an older boat. I don't have my hopes up after seeing all the small age related surface crack issues, and upcoming engine service $$$.

    No more poking for this year. I'm done. All the poking I have done has further convinced me to not buy a substantial boat. We have hobie pedal and sailing kayaks and a zodiac that we used more than a lot of owners have hours on their large boats. A lot of the owners of larger boats tell me that they're moving to a smaller day boat. I saw a small new RIB with a radar arch and a 50hp on it for $50k. The dealer with the "Boat Person" attitude was bringing it up to NH and had to run, but he had the pull his head out of his [email protected] first.

    I guess I haven't caused anyone to have their happiest second day of owning a boat!
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  28. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Once I get a Hull ID or documentation number on a boat, I can find out a lot about it. I just ran into two more instances of sellers and brokers: Lying, Hiding, and Deceiving. I like the words "Professionally" or "Yard" maintained, when $5-6k header and riser replacement is well over due on a 40-60k boat. I just had an oil analysis on a very low hour 10k diesel generator come back "CRITICAL", fuel was found in the crankcase oil.

    I asked the surveyor: Is there any requirement for surveyors to notify anyone, such as the Coast Guard or home port harbor master, when a CRITICAL issue which can result in serious harm is found?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  29. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    I just got back from looking at a boat that's listed in excellent condition for $50k obo. The owner showed me $30k in receipts for removing, rebuilding, and re-installing and testing, via a $500 sea trial, two 454's.....wow. And wow again when more than 50% of the top deck surfaces were soft and de-laminated (he said that I love that hammer!), that's a $20k value hit, along with another 12k hit for a bottom re-do. Take that off the $50k he's asking for it. He also needs to figure out where that vibration is coming from at cruising speed. I would have scrapped it when the engines went due to a neglected riser and header replacement mistake, especially if I knew about the decks. And doh, he forgot to winterize it. I get the feeling that I am soooooo lucky to not have a slip and/or boat yard bound toy boat.

    Now, the condo in the listing picture, with the boat would be interesting. It looks like another screwy deal
    30' AmeriCat Sailing Cruising Catamaran or Charter Captain partner
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  30. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    okkkkk...so no boat people here! A wise group

    Soooo when I get a boat i'll need somewhere to store it for the winter. Anywhere from Dighton south would work, suggestions
    And then there's naming it, suggestions
     

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