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blackdog magazine preban 22lr AR for conversions
- Thread starter mac1911
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I don't think that company made them, but the conversion kits have been around for a long time (there was a military version) so there are probably older systems available surplus. Look for 'ciener'
Someone seems to have one on the ar15 classifieds
http://ee.ar15.com/ItemView.aspx?iid=29574
Someone seems to have one on the ar15 classifieds
http://ee.ar15.com/ItemView.aspx?iid=29574
The Ciener conversion has been around for quite a while, but Black Dog has only been making mags for a short time. Their 26 round mags are a joy to behold and even more fun to use. Unfortunately they are not available in MA.
PS The Black Dog ten round mags are also pretty good. I use them for practice in my Model 1 upper. Ten rounds is more than sufficient for my practice drills; the only time I really could use the high cap mags would be a practical rifle match with a rimfire class.
icyclefar
NES Member
This is pretty close ...........
http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/nordic-components-ruger-ar22-receiver-stock-kit-p-1383.html
I just got Black Dog mags with my AR 22 conversion...they said they couldn't ship me the 30 round (26?) due to large capacity in Mass....
So I'm at the gun show Saturday and my friend comes along with a clearly BRAND NEW 30 round mag for his 22!!! WTF!!
How is this possible? Is it a shipping issue or a Mass law issue?
BTW - my Spikes Tactical 22 LR conversion works awesome!! 200+ rounds of Federal, CCI standard, CCI Super, and some old Remmington work FINE!! Had one round not fire in the middle of a mag, ejected, and ran another 50+ through it!! VERY COOL!!!
Spikes fumbled a bit through the order with a few delays (days not weeks) and ultimately followed through. I'm very pleased!
So I'm at the gun show Saturday and my friend comes along with a clearly BRAND NEW 30 round mag for his 22!!! WTF!!
How is this possible? Is it a shipping issue or a Mass law issue?
BTW - my Spikes Tactical 22 LR conversion works awesome!! 200+ rounds of Federal, CCI standard, CCI Super, and some old Remmington work FINE!! Had one round not fire in the middle of a mag, ejected, and ran another 50+ through it!! VERY COOL!!!
Spikes fumbled a bit through the order with a few delays (days not weeks) and ultimately followed through. I'm very pleased!
LE and FFLs can have those mags (LE only if it's for official purposes), but if your friend is neither then he's committing a felony.
My Spikes has over 2000 rounds through it easy (more like 3000) since April with no cleaning. Shitty WWB bulk packs aside, I can count the FTFs and FTEs on one hand.
My Spikes has over 2000 rounds through it easy (more like 3000) since April with no cleaning. Shitty WWB bulk packs aside, I can count the FTFs and FTEs on one hand.
Black Dog introduced a bolt hold open follower for their mags. The follower now extends into the chamber after the last shot to let you know the mag is empty. This saves some wear and tear on the firing pin. It has no effect on the 10 round mags, but apparently reduces the capacity of the 30 rounders.
High capacity felony?
So how do the vendors simply set up a table and sell illegal items?!?!? I was curious if this somehow overlapped with the fact that certain 22's carry more than 10 rounds from the factory. My understanding was that you were only allowed to have "pre-ban" high capacity mags for ANY caliber or gun.
The game of course is proving the vintage of the magazine, but in the spirit of the law, it is really pretty clear. So again, how is it that you can buy high cap post ban?
I know there is more emphasis put on AR mags due to the black gun nonsense, but is there something different with 22's that I'm not aware of?
So how do the vendors simply set up a table and sell illegal items?!?!? I was curious if this somehow overlapped with the fact that certain 22's carry more than 10 rounds from the factory. My understanding was that you were only allowed to have "pre-ban" high capacity mags for ANY caliber or gun.
The game of course is proving the vintage of the magazine, but in the spirit of the law, it is really pretty clear. So again, how is it that you can buy high cap post ban?
I know there is more emphasis put on AR mags due to the black gun nonsense, but is there something different with 22's that I'm not aware of?
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Are you sure they were not 10 round magazines? The Black Dog 10 round and 30 round are identical plastic cases, except for two little plastic stops molded inside to limit the 10 rounder to block the follower beyond 10 rounds.
Yes the show was in MA
Yes we live in MA
My friend purchased 30 round 10/22 mags for his Ruger
The Black Dog / AR 223 references are just equals that I am familiar with due to recent purchases. The 30 round black dogs work great and are a boatload of fun, but the 10 round ones function just the same....you just go through fewer rounds!
I kept my eye out at the show and didn't see ANY black dog mags - I was hoping to score some 30 rounders after seeing the one my friend got....but with no luck. Several vendors had the high cap Rugers.
Yes we live in MA
My friend purchased 30 round 10/22 mags for his Ruger
The Black Dog / AR 223 references are just equals that I am familiar with due to recent purchases. The 30 round black dogs work great and are a boatload of fun, but the 10 round ones function just the same....you just go through fewer rounds!
I kept my eye out at the show and didn't see ANY black dog mags - I was hoping to score some 30 rounders after seeing the one my friend got....but with no luck. Several vendors had the high cap Rugers.
There are always vendors selling illegal mags at gun shows in MA. This isn't exactly a "secret" at this point. Course I doubt most law enforcement really cares. Hell, there are LEOs buying stuff at these shows, too. Despite the fact that it's a felony, the "mag ban" is probably the most frequent "openly" violated law in MA. This might change once whoever "that guy" is gets hit by some over-ambitious anti gun prosecutor.
At MA gun shows the sales tax, is aggressively enforced though. I remember going to Marlboro a year or so ago and a guy I bought ammo from practically shouted "AND TWO DOLLARS SALES TAX" when he rang up the total. Apparently MDOR has some thugs milling around at the shows- I've had more than one person confirm this, as well... so don't try to cajole a vendor into cutting the tax out... otherwise these guys will show up....
"NOBODY EXPECTS the spanish inquisition! "
"Our weapons are fear and suprise- and excessive taxation!"
-Mike
At MA gun shows the sales tax, is aggressively enforced though. I remember going to Marlboro a year or so ago and a guy I bought ammo from practically shouted "AND TWO DOLLARS SALES TAX" when he rang up the total. Apparently MDOR has some thugs milling around at the shows- I've had more than one person confirm this, as well... so don't try to cajole a vendor into cutting the tax out... otherwise these guys will show up....
"NOBODY EXPECTS the spanish inquisition! "
"Our weapons are fear and suprise- and excessive taxation!"
-Mike
Hmm....
I also noticed that new ruger .22 AR takes 10/22 mags as well, except the
one I saw was not MA AWB compliant... maybe they'll make a crippled rifle
for the MA market...
-Mike
The 30 round mags for his Ruger were probably pre-ban magazines, made prior to 9/14/94. Those are legal in MA.
The Black Dog 30 round magazines are post-ban. Those are illegal in MA. If you possess one in MA, you are committing a felony. It's not worth it.
The Black Dog 10 round mags that I bought are several inches shorter than the 30 rounders and bear no resemblance to them. If Black Dog makes a 10 round mag that uses the larger 26 round body I would like to know about ti.
So are mine. They just have the little plastic 'stop' in the mag body to limit the capacity to 10 rounds. If I ever move to a free state, I'm wondering if I could just drill out the plastic stop to convert them to full capacity.
It's possible that BDM changed the style of mags over time. Mine are only about 5 months old; maybe older ones had a different configuration?
It appears my earlier comment was incorrect.
When I ordered my .22lr dedicated upper from Model 1 Sales it came with a 10 round neutered mag for MA. I never noticed who made the mag. I ordered 2 additional 10 round mags directly from Blackdog. Here are all three together:
It turns out the one that came from Model 1 was also a Blackdog! All three of them are 10 rounders, and all three are Blackdog. The shorter one is the one that came from Model 1. All three mags were delivered within a two month time period. Apparently they've changed production somewhere along the line, or are producing two different types of mags. I don't know which is the newer production, but I suspect it's the shorter one, since that one has an extended follower to hold the bolt open as Gammon posted.
When I ordered my .22lr dedicated upper from Model 1 Sales it came with a 10 round neutered mag for MA. I never noticed who made the mag. I ordered 2 additional 10 round mags directly from Blackdog. Here are all three together:
It turns out the one that came from Model 1 was also a Blackdog! All three of them are 10 rounders, and all three are Blackdog. The shorter one is the one that came from Model 1. All three mags were delivered within a two month time period. Apparently they've changed production somewhere along the line, or are producing two different types of mags. I don't know which is the newer production, but I suspect it's the shorter one, since that one has an extended follower to hold the bolt open as Gammon posted.
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It appears my earlier comment was incorrect.
When I ordered my .22lr dedicated upper from Model 1 Sales it came with a 10 round neutered mag for MA. I never noticed who made the mag. I ordered 2 additional 10 round mags directly from Blackdog. Here are all three together:
It turns out the one that came from Model 1 was also a Blackdog! All three of them are 10 rounders, and all three are Blackdog. The shorter one is the one that came from Model 1. All three mags were delivered within a two month time period. Apparently they've changed production somewhere along the line, or are producing two different types of mags. I don't know which is the newer production, but I suspect it's the shorter one, since that one has an extended follower to hold the bolt open as Gammon posted.
Very interesting. I wish I had known about the longer 10 round mags before I ordered a bunch of the shorter ones from Brownells. The extended follower is a great idea as it prevents you from dropping the hammer on an empty chamber. This saves a lot of wear and tear on the firing pin.
Extended followers are available for short money from Black Dog to update older mags. They also offer an improved firing pin and extractor for the Ciener system. I am quite happy with all three products.
