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Big Brother is Watching - Again!

If I bought the car, I damn well should be made aware of anything that I did NOT ORDER being installed so that the insurance company can refuse to pay out or I can be prosecuted with info that my car gives to LE that I am not privy to!

Black boxes in planes are "not a secret", the FAA made it well known to every pilot that they are installed in commercial craft. Same should hold true for personally owned vehicles.
 
Yes. And the next step will be that -everyone- will have a little tube to
breathe into before you start the car, not just the cars of habitual
drunk drivers. After all, MADD and the other safety fetish people want
it that way. Anything to increase SAFETY! Freedom? what's
that... it sounds like something which is INFERIOR to SAFETY!

Then comes the automatic governor that reads the speed limit sign
and regulates the maximum speed to whatever sign its pinged
recently. Or if not the governor, then an RFID chip that sends
out the average speed of the car for the last X number of miles, so
a police vehicle can ping you and see how fast you've -been- going.

I'm not so worried aobut the government here- just more abuse from
already horrific insurance companies. I doubt these features would
exist if it wasnt for some poindexter executive from some insurance
company pushing for its existence. They do it under the guise
of wanting "to reduce premiums" but its more like "so we can find more
ways to deny claims"

-Mike
 
And if the manufacturer doesn't include a recorder, someone will sue them because some data wasn't available that could have prevented some crash or exonerated them or something.

It's funny though, about ten years ago, I had a crazy mechanic who worked on my volvo. He said the ignition system transmitted your location to the CIA. Guess he was right, just a little early.
 
drgrant said:
Yes. And the next step will be that -everyone- will have a little tube to
breathe into before you start the car, not just the cars of habitual
drunk drivers. After all, MADD and the other safety fetish people want
it that way. Anything to increase SAFETY! Freedom? what's
that... it sounds like something which is INFERIOR to SAFETY!

Then comes the automatic governor that reads the speed limit sign
and regulates the maximum speed to whatever sign its pinged
recently. Or if not the governor, then an RFID chip that sends
out the average speed of the car for the last X number of miles, so
a police vehicle can ping you and see how fast you've -been- going.

I'm not so worried aobut the government here- just more abuse from
already horrific insurance companies. I doubt these features would
exist if it wasnt for some poindexter executive from some insurance
company pushing for its existence. They do it under the guise
of wanting "to reduce premiums" but its more like "so we can find more
ways to deny claims"

-Mike
Click to expand...

You should be worried about the gov.,from the locals, state and feds. They all want a piece of the pie-your money,and every little electronic gizmo will just make it easier for them.
 
We had a guy at work that was saved by the data downloaded from a cruiser's "black box". The data confirmed what he stated. It didn't save anyone from the civil suit but he wasn't criminally charged and didn't lose his job.
 
I'd bet most of us already drive cars that have some sort of data stored in short-term memory. What this new law does is make the auto industry acknoledge what they are doing (one step forward), then makes it easier for investigators to access the data (two setps back). I don't like it because the black box is not an option and it gives the insurance industry 'evidence' that the average persone will be nearly defenseless to dispute or even review.

On a similar note read "Court to FBI: No spying on in-car computers"

http://news.com.com/2100-1029_3-5109435.html

Also I vaguely recall some states using toll enter, exit times to calculate speed and hand out tickets. With the speed pass it all too easy to do.
 
My truck is equipped with GM's OnStar system. At any given time my location is available to the OnStar people. I'm sure that that information could be farmed out to the appropriate agencies if a warrant is issued...


Chris
 
Any one else have a "fast lane" pass? I do, and I often think about how easy it would be to correlate the times and places you got on and off the highway to generate average speed and mail you a citation.
 
Arioch,

According to some news reports over recent years, this has indeed been done. One reason why I would not get a Mass Fast Lane Pass!
 
Christosx has it right if and when a warrant is issued. In either RI or Conn several years ago a rental car aggency used such info to surcharge a rentee for breaking the speed limit he sued IIRC about the "black box" and not told of it being in the car. he won and the agency was forced to rmove or tell customers of the device
 
I don't have a problem with this device. I believe it's a good thing, providing it, and the information stored on it, is MINE to do with as I see fit.
 
I have fast lane. I got a letter in the mail for running the toll and in the letter it stated to call a number. Maybe it's because it was relatively new at the time but he told me every time I get a letter to call beacuse if you don't call you would be issue a citation after the third unanswered letter. If they want to use it to calcualte my speed between tolls they can. They will only give me one ticket though cause after I know they're doing that I won't speed through anymore....

My wife driving with a brain cramp one evening went through a fastlane toll wothout the transponder so I told her to call the state police and let them know what happened and I told her to do it right away. The trooper tookl the info and told her not to worry about it and be more careful the next time. He took care of it...they seem pretty cool about it so far.

I don't know what the deal is with those black boxes.....that's probably not going to be good.

Now all my cars and my boat trailer are registered so no issues. I've used it in New York and in New Hampshire as well as T Parking garages. I think it's great!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Martlet said:
I don't have a problem with this device. I believe it's a good thing, providing it, and the information stored on it, is MINE to do with as I see fit.
Click to expand...

It ISN'T.

First, you probably won't be able to download it. Second, police have already used the information in a criminal prosecution, after the info showed which car was speeding at the time of the accident, which was at an intersection.

Think about it: How often is YOUR personal information, when collected for the government, actually ever directly benefitted YOU?
 
Scrivener said:
It ISN'T.

First, you probably won't be able to download it. Second, police have already used the information in a criminal prosecution, after the info showed which car was speeding at the time of the accident, which was at an intersection.

Think about it: How often is YOUR personal information, when collected for the government, actually ever directly benefitted YOU?
Click to expand...

Top Ten Lies:

10. I'm allergic to rubber.
9. He's an honest candidate.
8. I'll respect you in the morning.
7. Trust me, I'll take care of everything.
6. It's not about the money.
5. This hurts me more than it hurts you.
4. If elected, I will use my office to serve the people..
3. Don't worry, it's OK -- I'm sterile.
2. I'll stop as soon as you say..
1. We're from the IRS/Government and we're here to help.

TBP
 
Just wait...

The current OBDIII spec includes a transmitter so that repair and inspection stations don't need to 'jack in' anymore to read the diagnostics (setting features would still need a hardwire.) There was also at one time a proposal for an LEO receiver that could be used by police to shut down the vehicle in a pursuit.

Something to be said for Antique cars.... (which today would be a car from 1981)
 
Scrivener said:
It ISN'T.

First, you probably won't be able to download it. Second, police have already used the information in a criminal prosecution, after the info showed which car was speeding at the time of the accident, which was at an intersection.

Think about it: How often is YOUR personal information, when collected for the government, actually ever directly benefitted YOU?
Click to expand...

Then I guess that would be a great pro bono case for you. Maybe the ACLU will hop on the bandwagon as a violation of our privacy.
 
Chris said:
Just wait...

The current OBDIII spec includes a transmitter so that repair and inspection stations don't need to 'jack in' anymore to read the diagnostics (setting features would still need a hardwire.) There was also at one time a proposal for an LEO receiver that could be used by police to shut down the vehicle in a pursuit.

Something to be said for Antique cars.... (which today would be a car from 1981)
Click to expand...
I'm not at home so I can't grab the link easily, but there's a kit out there that'll connect up to a PDA (Windows or Palm OS) that lets you read the computer - it isn't that expensive, either, about $250 or so. Getting diagnostics is easier and easier nowadays.
 
There are a lot of kits like that. There is one called the VagCom for VW and Audi that lets you read and modify all kinds of things in the cars from shift programs to power delay times, etc. Cable hooks to a laptop and the rest is just software. Supposed to be better than the factor software, and many VW techs are using it.

I know that at one time the Porche enthusiests had this data book of codes to read and program into their computers.

You find the right geek group and a lot of the 'black' is removed from the box.

I've even heard of people with high end sports cars who install EMP devices onto the car's computer that's wired to the airbags so that if the air bags pop, the entire computer is wiped. Just in case.
 
daceman63 said:
My wife driving with a brain cramp one evening went through a fastlane toll wothout the transponder so I told her to call the state police and let them know what happened and I told her to do it right away. The trooper tookl the info and told her not to worry about it and be more careful the next time. He took care of it...they seem pretty cool about it so far.
Click to expand...
Nothing to worry about as long as they know the license plates of the cars you're using. They take a pic and manually review it and if they can match the plate they automatically charge it to the right account.

I learned of this when they sold me a defective transponder... it would work in a car but not when it was on top of my bike's tank bag. It worked in their little tester gadget so they wouldn't replace it, either... I just told them that they could keep manually matching my plate to my account because as far as I was concerned it was defective and I didn't care if the yellow light kept flashing on... [devil]
 
dwarven1 said:
Nothing to worry about as long as they know the license plates of the cars you're using. They take a pic and manually review it and if they can match the plate they automatically charge it to the right account.

I learned of this when they sold me a defective transponder... it would work in a car but not when it was on top of my bike's tank bag. It worked in their little tester gadget so they wouldn't replace it, either... I just told them that they could keep manually matching my plate to my account because as far as I was concerned it was defective and I didn't care if the yellow light kept flashing on... [devil]
Click to expand...
The Mass Pike now has a $1.00 "Vtoll" (visual toll) surcharge for doing this manual match when their transponder fails to register.
 
I'm all for the proper use of technology but the more I read stuff like this the more I find my self becoming a Luddite. Knowing how deeply the government or insurance companies can peer into our lives without our knowledge or consent just freakes me out. I can't wait for gas to become so expensive we all have to start riding horses again.

Now, where's my tinfoil hat ?
tinfoil3.gif
 
Back when I worked in a place that took security seriously, there were some filing cabinets that had thermite charges built in connected to a (well protected) emergency button. If TSHTF, one push of the button reduced the contents to a slag heap. I want one of those for the data recorder on any car I get more than I'd want the reader. [wink]

Ken
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The Mass Pike now has a $1.00 "Vtoll" (visual toll) surcharge for doing this manual match when their transponder fails to register.
Click to expand...
If they pull that sh*t on me I will be all over them to replace their defective transponders (at their cost). Typical bureaucratic bullsh*t. [rolleyes] Their equipment is defective so charge the customer for their problem.
 
dwarven1 said:
They take a pic and manually review it and if they can match the plate they automatically charge it to the right account.
Click to expand...

Those cameras automatically read every vehicle's license plate and match it with the corresponding plates on file for the transponder. This deters people from stealing the transponders since they're not transferable.

There is plenty of information being collected out there that LE either doesn't use or doesn't make it well know that they are using it. In states like NY, just about every toll both is equiped for transpoder use, so even if you don't have a transponder you drive by the license plate reader. Maybe it records, maybe it doesn't. But if NYC is looking for a 'missing' tanker truck, you'd think they'd make use of the system already in place to locate it. (Conspiracy theory people take note: those NYC toll takers are armed).

Back to the OT: my beef with the black box is it is not an option. A "privacy policy" must allow a person to opt out of the program. Otherwise there's no chance of privacy--it's just a "we're watching you policy".

Get your very own license plate reader:

http://surveillance-video.stores.yahoo.net/regduliplcac.html

Google "license plate reader" and you'll find more uses. Boston has used them to locate cars with outstanding tickets.

FYI: There are plate covers that claim to block the IR camera.
 
Interesting point

Martlet said:
I don't have a problem with this device. I believe it's a good thing, providing it, and the information stored on it, is MINE to do with as I see fit.
Click to expand...

That certainly raises some questions for the lawyers. Who owns the information? If you own the car, do you own the black box installed in it, or is it only being licensed to you.

If the box is only licensed to you, has anyone ever been provided with a copy of the license agreement covering the black box?

If you in fact own the box, do you by extension also have ownership over the data it collects? Should law enforcement be required to obtain a warrant to gain access to the data.

How does the situation differ if the car is leased vs. owned?
 

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