Beware the Gift Ammo! . . .

[6hold]

Beware the Gift Ammo! . . . parts 1 & 2

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If I may relate a, somewhat, short story . . .over twelve years ago a friend of mine said he could “work-up” a nice semi-wadcutter load for my S&W model 52. I sadly sold my 52 many years ago and now it will cost at least twice what I paid new to buy one used . . . live and learn!!! The S&W 52 was made to shoot only 38 special full-wadcutters (I used HBWC) with light to mid power loads, so I gratefully declined his generous offer and mentioned to him why it should only shoot certain ammo, even though he definitely already knew.

Full wadcutter and semi-wadcutter.​

Well about a month or two later he gave me a gift of some reloaded 38 special ammo. He said they should give me a little better accuracy at fifty yards because they are “semi-wadcutters, (not the full-wadcutters that S&W said to use in their model 52). I said “They wont load in the magazines because they’ll be too long! He smiled and said “Oh no, they should work fine in the magazines.”

When I eyeballed the ammo he loaded for me I couldn’t believe how he loaded them. He seated the nose of the semi-wadcutter bullet even with the case mouth. As I hope you can see in the photo, the bullet doesn’t touch the case until it’s about 3/8 of an inch deep. I also noticed that the cases were slightly “bulged” about a third of the way up from the base (doesn't really show in pics). I mentioned to him that he seated the semi-wadcutter so deep that it’s starting to bulge the casing and will probably build the pressure when fired because it will be tighter.

I seated bullets an "RCH" deeper than these during later reloadings.​

The X-38 rounds.​

I asked him what powder charge he used for the reloads. If I remember correctly he said he used the same amount as I used. I mentioned that it would be more prudent to use slightly less because of the lack of space for the power with the bullet so deeply seated.

I told him that I didn’t want to chance shooting them in the S&W 52 for the reason that the bullet being seated deeper and tighter in the shell might build the pressure high enough to cause damage to my most accurate and beloved gun. He said he didn’t think it would cause any harm to the gun but if I was really concerned I could always use them in a revolver.

Well I never fired his experimental 38’s (X-38) and I was going to remove the bullets from cartridges for their components. I couldn’t do it though, I really did want to see how they shot. Whether or not they were over pressured, or if not over pressured, would they have decent accuracy like he said they should.

I know, many folks would say, “Don’t chance it”; “When in doubt, chuck it out!” Well I recently purchased a nice strong Ruger GP100, 357 magnum that is one hell of a nice revolver and I was pretty sure it would take any pressure these little rascals had to offer, with ease.

Ruger GP100 ~ 357 magnum​

Well before I put the good folks of NES to sleep with this account, I had better show what, if any difference these deep seated semi-wadcutters had compared to the regular “light load” full wadcutters that I usually use. Before heading out to the range I tried all of the X-38’s to see if any were bulged so much as not to enter the cylinders. Well they all dropped in with ease I’m relieved to say.

Wouldn’t you know it, I picked a hot 92-degree, humid day to go trotting off to the range. Oh well, it was Friday and I didn’t want to wait till Monday to do some shooting. I don’t really enjoy crowded weekends if I can help it, especially when cataloging some of the action. I set up the large B-8(P) 25 yard target so I could see any “flyers” I may get. I shot off five rounds of my 12 year old handloaded full wadcutters first. I rested my gun hand on my photo bag to be steadier. The first five shots grouped well (for me) about 2 inches and I was pleased these old reloads still had some accuracy left in them.

I loaded five of the X-38’s in my magnificent Ruger and said a silent prayer. When I touched off each round I could tell they had a somewhat “sharper” kick than the light to medium loads I fired before them. I thought, “That wasn’t bad at all, what was I sweating?” When I ejected the casings and gave them the “hairy-eyeball” out in the sunlight I noticed that they had shiny, almost steel colored smudges on them, I’ve never noticed that with any other load I’ve used. Other than the smudges they looked fine, no bulges, cracks or distortions, primers looked normal.

Now, when I laid an eye to the scope to check out the way they grouped I was truly startled at the revelation it showed. The X-38’s had a much larger grouping, about 9 inches. That was bad enough but when I saw the way the bullets impacted the target it was amazing. Three of the five had struck absolutely sideways, not egg-shaped or key-holed but totally broadside. I believe all five were tumbling and two of the five just happened to be facing head-on (or ass-backward) when they penetrated the target. No, I didn't sight in the Ruger with the ammo used that day. It may look like more but only ten shots were fired at the target.

Orange is the X-38, the blue is my old full wadcutter loads.​

The three "broadside" X-38's.​

The two holes that seem elongated (below) on the first five shots fired are only paper tears from the target being lose on the backing and bowing out that gave that appearance..

I’m glad I brought the camera along so I could capture the images for posterity and to show my buddy just what his X-38’s were capable of. I guess I’ll be putting that ol’ bullet puller into action soon, so no one will be tempted to use these abominations again.

Firing off some rounds of Norma 357 magnum toward the end of day at the range added a nice punch after mostly light loads of 38 special. All and all a great day at the range, the extra jug of water helped. LIFE IS GOOD!

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~ February 10, 2009 ~ Part 2​

Doesn't take me long to finish a post . . . only about a half a year, yikes!

Well I finally had to purchase another caliper, the one I originally had must have been lost in the trip to the new digs! I wanted a dial caliper like I had but went for the digital just to see if it’s as good. I like it just fine and it’s quick and accurate. They gave me an extra battery with it so when this one gets low I use the spare and buy another for spare and never have to sweat it pooping out on me.

Now, back to the gory tale of the "X-38’s". The bullets measured out to be just what we thought, they were deformed at the base. When my buddy deep-seated the semiwadcutters he inadvertently squeezed the base of the bullets as the shell became thicker the deeper bullets were being seated.

The measurements tapered from the top to the bottom, with the base being quite a bit narrower.

These are about what the measurements averaged, on a half dozen or so bullets.​

This fuzzy image gives an exaggerated idea of just how the bullet would be in the barrel, only it would be cocked at an angle more often than not. Note the gap at the base where the gasses would be forced by.

Am I wrong, or can the perceptive eyeball notice the narrower base of the bullet? ​

Well there you have it clan, my tale of woe has ended . . . for today anyhow!

"BEWARE THE GIFT AMMO!" ​

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[Dick]

Thanks for a great report and those great photos. Why do you suppose the SWCs were tumbling? Based on the felt recoil, etc., it seems like the velocities would have been in a reasonable range. I know with some of my handloads I can see slight tipping if I increase or decrease the charge from what I've worked out to be optimal for the particular firearm, but I've never seen outright tumbling. Just curious if you have any theories.

P.S. I have a Mod 52-2 and I wouldn't have run those X-38s through it either - not in a million years.

 

[6hold]

I can only guess . . .

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Dick ~ Thanks for the compliments. I have no real explanation of why the bullets would have “tipped” to such a degree that they would enter the target at such a exaggerated sideways trajectory. I now don’t believe that they could have “tumbled” in such a short distance. The only reason that comes to mind is that the base of the bullet was deformed when he seated the bullets too deep.

The case gets thicker when it gets nearer the base of the cartridge and that might have compressed part of the base of the bullet. When the bullet is about to exit the barrel the gas would try to squeeze by the compress section of the base thereby tipping the nose of the bullet.

As the bullet traveled the twenty-five yards the tipping and spinning would come more exaggerated to the point of some bullets striking the target sideways. This is only guesswork on my part but that’s all I can come up with at this time. Any suggestions out there please join in.
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[MGO]

Great pictures.

I am guessing the bullet diameter was compressed down from seating in the brass so far. They were probably not engaging the rifling in the barrel to properly spin the bullet to stabilize it. When you pull some of the unfired bullets mic up a few and see how they compare. I usually size soft cast lead .358 to .359. Anything smaller and they dont stabilize out a short barrel. You were much braver than I. I would not have fired them.

 

[6hold]

Great pictures.

I am guessing the bullet diameter was compressed down from seating in the brass so far. They were probably not engaging the rifling in the barrel to properly spin the bullet to stabilize it. When you pull some of the unfired bullets mic up a few and see how they compare. I usually size soft cast lead .358 to .359. Anything smaller and they dont stabilize out a short barrel. You were much braver than I. I would not have fired them.

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MGO ~ Thanks for your comments. I think you’re right. We both believe the base of the bullet has been deformed (crushed) somewhat when he pressed the bullet too deep in the casings. By doing that it must have produced a poor fit and the expanding gas was probably leaking out unevenly. Or, like you mentioned, the bullet didn’t have enough surface contacting the rifling that it didn’t receive enough spin.

I would love to examine the bullets but there seems to be some difficulty. When I went to remove the bullets I was amazed at the amount of power I had to use to “try” to remove them. I hammered the piss out of some with a kinetic bullet puller to the point I knew the puller was going to shatter before the bullet came out.

After hammering with increasing pressure I would check to see just how far the bullet had moved . . . they wouldn’t budge even a fraction of an inch no matter how hard or long I hammered. Yes, I used a block of hardwood on end but the effort did nothing but put a shallow divot in the hardwood. I will try again until the bullet budges or the puller expires.

Seeing the pressure that’s holding the bullets in, I was surprised that they didn’t have more kick than they did. They kicked more than the light loads I made up for the S&W 52 but had less recoil than factory 38 special and considerable less than 357 magnum.

Hey, perhaps that’s part of the answer. The pressure buildup was in the case but once the bullet stated down the barrel it lessened because of the poor fit of the deformed bullet on the rifling. Food for thought anyway.

 

[6hold]

Finally got it done . . .

The forensics on the X-38's are finally complete my fellow Americans, give it a glance if you have the inclination. I’ve added it to the end of the first (original) post of this thread.​

 

[WILDCATT]

bad bad

your going to have to use the hammer puller.If you resize the case it will squeez the bullet and make it easier to come out.the bullets are food for the melting pot any way.
the 52 does not like heavier charges.I had a colt conversion and I loaded 3.5 of 700x,it stings like hell and the left grip split as the end of the case blew.I did not have a 52 at the time.I do now,
and 2.8 is it.

 

[6hold]

your going to have to use the hammer puller.If you resize the case it will squeez the bullet and make it easier to come out.the bullets are food for the melting pot any way.
the 52 does not like heavier charges.I had a colt conversion and I loaded 3.5 of 700x,it stings like hell and the left grip split as the end of the case blew.I did not have a 52 at the time.I do now,
and 2.8 is it.

WILDCATT ~ Thanks for the advice, it’s always appreciated. I did get the kinetic bullet puller functioning properly so I could remove the bullets and not destroy the puller. I believe I can resize the case with the unfired primer still intact as long as I remove the primer decapping pin first. Then I can load the powder and seat the bullets and be on my way . . . unless I’ve missed something important here?

My S&W model 52 was only fed HBWC’s and 3 or 3.1 gr. of 231. That gun was the sweetest, most accurate gun out of the box I ever shot, hands down! Hold on to your 52, they’re one fine shootin-iron for sure.