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Best way to pin and weld compensator

Lxpony

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Correct, but when some hard a$$ jaw head cop/ATF/other alphabet soup named .gov agency shears the end off a barrel he'll/they will then realized Rocksett is permanent! Either way if it gets to that point they'll have already nailed you on 2 dozen other related issues. Gun = Bad!
The key is that the atf doesn't say their list of ways to permanently attach muzzle devices are the sole methods of doing so
 

groundscrapers

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The key is that the atf doesn't say their list of ways to permanently attach muzzle devices are the sole methods of doing so
thats a bit of a stretch. The common man would read that is the methods include x,y,and z. They didn't say the methods include, but are not limited to x,y, and z.
 

AHM

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The key is that the atf doesn't say their list of ways to permanently attach muzzle devices are the sole methods of doing so
thats a bit of a stretch. The common man would read that is the methods include x,y,and z. They didn't say the methods include, but are not limited to x,y, and z.
Statutory Interpretation § Textual

Expressio unius est exclusio alterius ("the express mention of one thing excludes all others" or "the expression of one is the exclusion of others") Items not on the list are impliedly assumed not to be covered by the statute or a contract term. However, sometimes a list in a statute is illustrative, not exclusionary. This is usually indicated by a word such as "includes" or "such as."​

That's trotted out everywhere.

Also, while no discussion I found has a fancy Latin phrase to denote
"An illustrative list includes all similar things",
neither does any have a counterexample where "includes" (or "such as")
denotes an exclusive list.
 

Lxpony

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Statutory Interpretation § Textual

Expressio unius est exclusio alterius ("the express mention of one thing excludes all others" or "the expression of one is the exclusion of others") Items not on the list are impliedly assumed not to be covered by the statute or a contract term. However, sometimes a list in a statute is illustrative, not exclusionary. This is usually indicated by a word such as "includes" or "such as."​

That's trotted out everywhere.

Also, while no discussion I found has a fancy Latin phrase to denote
"An illustrative list includes all similar things",
neither does any have a counterexample where "includes" (or "such as")
denotes an exclusive list.
There is no statute at the federal level that defines how permanent is defined that I've ever seen - Only an ATF "handbook". So if there is no official law on books what is the litmus test for determining what is a perm. Attached muzzle device?
 

cathouse01

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Pertinent line highlighted.

Here's the AFT standards on welds and muzzle attachments:

March 31, 1998

BATF
Firearms Technology Branch
Washington, DC 20226

Greetings:

I had some questions about permanently attaching muzzle brakes
and barrel extensions to firearms.

As you are aware, some barrels, particularly for some semi-
automatic rifles, come with muzzle threads. However, it may be
necessary, depending on the other features of the rifle, to remove
those threads, in order to keep the firearm from being considered
a "semi-automatic assault weapon". Additionally, some firearm
barrels come in lengths below 16 inches, and in order to be
installed on rifles without making the rifle subject to the
National Firearms Act, an extension may be permanently attached to
the end of the barrel, by muzzle threads, so as to make the barrel
length at least 16 inches.

I was wondering what methods of attachment to muzzle threads
are considered permanent enough so as to either extend the barrel
length, by use of an extension, or to remove the muzzle threads as
a feature of a semi-automatic rifle which might otherwise be
considered a "semiautomatic assault weapon"

In particular, I have heard that welding is acceptable. If you
can, please advise me of the method of welding, and the required
weld coverage. I have also heard that high temperature silver
solder is acceptable. If you can, please advise me as to the solder
alloy, and melting temperature that would be considered permanent.
I have also heard that some industrial adhesives are acceptable, in
particular a product called "Rocksett". I would appreciate
confirmation as to which, if any, industrial adhesives have been
found to be acceptable.

Also, if there are any other methods which I have not
mentioned above, which have also been found to be acceptable
methods of permanently installing muzzle devices onto rifles, I
would appreciate it if you could advise me of what they are.

Sincerely, XXXXXXXXX


DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, D.C. 20226

JUN 18 1998 F:FPD:FTB:RAT
3311

Dear Mr. :

This refers to your letter of March 31, 1998, in which you ask
about permanently attaching a muzzle device to various firearms.

A muzzle device, such as a muzzle brake or barrel extension, which
is attached to a barrel by means of welding or high temperature
silver solder having a melting point of at least 1,100 degrees
Fahrenheit, is considered to be part of the barrel for purposes of
measurement. A seam weld extending at least one-half the
circumference of the barrel or four equidistant tack welds around
the circumference of the barrel are adequate for this purpose.

A firearm having a muzzle brake, cap, or barrel extension
permanently attached by those same methods to cover the threads on
a barrel, would not be considered to have a threaded muzzle.
Please note, however, that any muzzle device or barrel extension
which functions as a flash suppressor or grenade launcher would
still constitute one of the qualifying features of a semiautomatic
assault weapon as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. section
921(a)(30(B). Industrial adhesive products are not an acceptable
method for permanently attaching a muzzle device.


Mr.

We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If you have further questions concerning this matter, please
contact us.


Sincerely yours,

[signed]

Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
 

AHM

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There is no statute at the federal level that defines how permanent is defined that I've ever seen - Only an ATF "handbook". So if there is no official law on books what is the litmus test for determining what is a perm. Attached muzzle device?
Shrug. Case law?

(And @cathouse01 posted that lovely letter).

Right...why not just say the approved methods are x,y,z etc.? That removes all doubt. “Includes” implies there are other options..
Maybe the boys down in Metallurgy didn't want to be pinned down.
(So to speak).

the only thing "includes" includes is the possibility of jail time if your permanent doesn't meet their standard.
If it weren't for double-standards,
they'd have no standards at all.
-- Howie Carr​
 

Eli

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elsewhere we just SBR lol
I don't know who would sbr a 14.5. Its a 50$ pin and weld vs a 200$ tax stamp and a several month wait. Maybe a 14.5 sbr if you already have an SBR lower then you can avoid the pin and weld, but if you don't already have an sbr there's literally no reason
 

groundscrapers

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I don't know who would sbr a 14.5. Its a 50$ pin and weld vs a 200$ tax stamp and a several month wait. Maybe a 14.5 sbr if you already have an SBR lower then you can avoid the pin and weld, but if you don't already have an sbr there's literally no reason
Less than 2 months and SBR all the things.
 

MGnoob

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Either pin and weld it or don’t. While silver solder has been the preferred method..Because it’s slightly easier to reverse. It has no basis in law...

I’d say just buy a real preban band that way you don’t even have to deal with these problems
 

MGnoob

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Less than 2 months and SBR all the things.

No shit right, and then you can have as many uppers as you want...The ATF is way easier to deal with than Massachusetts. Your paying $200 for a tax stamp...

I’m probably borderline retarded and I can fill out the form in triplicate and resubmit it for As many times as it takes. You guys should’ve seen this e-filing system it was worse than Obama care.

I’ve waited over four years to purchase a single firearm. That was easier than going to the doctor
 

MGnoob

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I mean guys seriously any of us who have done this. You’re down there paying a guy to laser engrave a piece of aluminum and I want to look at your paperwork. The weird places people suggest engraving this shit is beyond me I like it right on the side
 
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