Best way to pin and weld compensator

[mav]

Completely magical thinking. The definition of assault weapon under MA law is “shall have the same meaning as” federal law of 13-sep-1994. MA terminology is not in play. You take the object, regardless of what it is called in MA, and go visit federal land. You ask federal land to tell you “is this an AW or not”. Then with that answer you come back to MA and know whether the object you are holding is an AW or not, again, regardless of what MA calls the object.

In federal land a SBR is subject to the federal rifle definition of AW.

Done. There is no magic that lets if fall between the cracks. You can take whatever risks you want and believe whatever you want, but dont be fooled into thinking you are exempt. That is magical thinking where you convolute or misunderstand the law to get the outcome you want versus what is actually true.

This is not in fact that complicated. Because MA did not bring in federal text but instead “shall have the same meaning”, all federal definitions are in play for determining if the object is an AW or not. No confusion.

Please don’t perpetuate your magical thinking no matter how many NRA instructors, police friends, gunsmiths, or people who stayed at a holiday inn express last night say otherwise.

No, IANAL, but having consulted a top lawyer on this subject, I am 100% confident in what I am saying above.

Preban SBR

If I make an SBR on a preban lower, does the manufacture of the SBR in accordance with the Form 1 nullify the rifle's preban status since Im technically creating a new firearm?

www.northeastshooters.com

Here's what NES had to say on the matter of an SBR and the MA AWB a number of years ago. Literally nothing has changed. The interpretation is muddy and as I said, will continue to be until there is a case decided.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying your interpretation may be incorrect and there is a good argument (made in posts #18-23) that it is in fact incorrect. But... we'll never know until someone gets jammed up and follows through to court.

 

[426wedge]

which range, what police? seriously?

C'mon, Man....

 

[Spartan65]

C'mon, Man....

I think I might know what range he is speaking about, and I bet the fudd he is speaking about is the rat himself!

 

[Lxpony]

Oh boy another thread about awb and sbrs.....crackpot loves these .....


I find it ironic that a welded on compensator can be easily removed by me and my dremel in under 60 seconds but use locktite/rocksett on that same compensator and it's nearly impossible to take off without heat, a vice and a breaker bar. If you don't have all 3 of those a locktite set comp IS permanent. F ucking stupid

 

[TriggeredFinger]

Gunsmithing/Pin and Weld

Looking for a gunsmith in the Boston area or South Shore that could install, then pin and weld a muzzle on 2-3 AR barrels. It seems as though this is getting harder to find, with crazy wait times and limited availability. Any recommendations out there?

www.northeastshooters.com

Long and short of it, take it to MAGA arms! He did an awesome job with a short turnaround and extremely fair price.

 

[CrackPot]

Preban SBR

If I make an SBR on a preban lower, does the manufacture of the SBR in accordance with the Form 1 nullify the rifle's preban status since Im technically creating a new firearm?

www.northeastshooters.com

Here's what NES had to say on the matter of an SBR and the MA AWB a number of years ago. Literally nothing has changed. The interpretation is muddy and as I said, will continue to be until there is a case decided.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying your interpretation may be incorrect and there is a good argument (made in posts #18-23) that it is in fact incorrect. But... we'll never know until someone gets jammed up and follows through to court.

Lol. You quote a 2016 NES thread like it means something. Good luck with that. After you also pay a 3K retainer to a top lawyer, let's play tidily winks.

Incorporation of federal law into state law is very well covered under existing case law. Just because a one eyed fortune teller with a parrot named Megan has never been tried for the murder of an uppity NESer that ocurred on a Monday evening at 8:43pm while the temperature was 12F and the wind was gusting at 40MPH does not mean there isn't sufficient settled case law to know what the outcome will be. You want someone to be tried in MA for an AWB violation on an SBR when there is no need. Because of MA's incorporation of federal law (not a copy/paste of the text but "shall have the same meaning") we already know how this plays out. Federal law says an SBR is subject to the rifle definition. Done. Over. Nice knowing you. Go to law school or pay a lawyer.

 

[CrackPot]

Preban SBR

If I make an SBR on a preban lower, does the manufacture of the SBR in accordance with the Form 1 nullify the rifle's preban status since Im technically creating a new firearm?

www.northeastshooters.com

Here's what NES had to say on the matter of an SBR and the MA AWB a number of years ago. Literally nothing has changed. The interpretation is muddy and as I said, will continue to be until there is a case decided.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying your interpretation may be incorrect and there is a good argument (made in posts #18-23) that it is in fact incorrect. But... we'll never know until someone gets jammed up and follows through to court.

Let's take your position to another extreme where there IS case law you cannot refute and can understand (clearly understanding federal case law on incorporation of federal law is too much). According to your logic an SBR is neither a rifle nor a pistol so not subject to the AWB. In MA a pistol is not a pistol. There is no definition of pistol. Chap 140 sec 121 defines "Weapon", "Firearm", "Rifle" and "Shotgun". What is known federally as a pistol in MA is a firearm. By applying your logic an AR pistol is not subject to the AWB. In MA an AR Pistol is actually a "Firearm" and not a pistol. So there is no "firearm" definition under the federal AWB so therefore a AR Pistol is exempt.

Yet we do have cases in MA where people are successfully prosecuted for an AWB violation for pistols like AR or AK pistols.

So please connect the dots for me... We have clear case law using your very logic. Tell me we don't know the outcome should someone be charged with an AWB violation for their SBR with 2+ evil features.

 

[StevieP]

If the ATF or other government agency is inspecting your rifle to see if the muzzle device is pinned & welded, you likely have much bigger problems than that the muzzle device isn't pinned & welded.

 

[Canndo]

Ahh. Just reminiscing. I fondly remember my 1st pin and weld. I drilled an 1/8” hole with a Dewalt drill through the comp and into the barrel. I then jammed a sharpened piece of coat hanger into the hole. From there, I blasted the hole with an arc welder, that I picked up from Harbor Freight. It made a crater 3 times the original hole. I spent the next day grinding with a dremel, filling with JB Weld and painting with high heat oven paint.
Oh, and it was stainless steel. What a mess.

 

[drgrant]

Let's take your position to another extreme where there IS case law you cannot refute and can understand (clearly understanding federal case law on incorporation of federal law is too much). According to your logic an SBR is neither a rifle nor a pistol so not subject to the AWB. In MA a pistol is not a pistol. There is no definition of pistol. Chap 140 sec 121 defines "Weapon", "Firearm", "Rifle" and "Shotgun". What is known federally as a pistol in MA is a firearm. By applying your logic an AR pistol is not subject to the AWB. In MA an AR Pistol is actually a "Firearm" and not a pistol. So there is no "firearm" definition under the federal AWB so therefore a AR Pistol is exempt.

Yet we do have cases in MA where people are successfully prosecuted for an AWB violation for pistols like AR or AK pistols.

So please connect the dots for me... We have clear case law using your very logic. Tell me we don't know the outcome should someone be charged with an AWB violation for their SBR with 2+ evil features.

Another happy fun ball thing, I want to say less than a month ago some guy sucked for a full out guilty plea on an AWB charge (as well as a bunch of other garbage) for a gun that was clearly like a 10 or 12" SBR, it had a real stock and all, some kind of AR variant with an FH on it etc. The naysayers will go "bbbut he had no ellllteeecee and it was unregistered" but both of those things are wholly irrelevant to the context of an AWB charge. Having a stamp doesnt change what something "is" ins its technical-legal sense.

 

[Lxpony]

Some of you guys better pull some firing pins out of some of your sbr'd guns to nullify them being a "firearm" by definition in Massachusetts

 

[71montess]

Lol. You quote a 2016 NES thread like it means something. Good luck with that. After you also pay a 3K retainer to a top lawyer, let's play tidily winks.

Incorporation of federal law into state law is very well covered under existing case law. Just because a one eyed fortune teller with a parrot named Megan has never been tried for the murder of an uppity NESer that ocurred on a Monday evening at 8:43pm while the temperature was 12F and the wind was gusting at 40MPH does not mean there isn't sufficient settled case law to know what the outcome will be. You want someone to be tried in MA for an AWB violation on an SBR when there is no need. Because of MA's incorporation of federal law (not a copy/paste of the text but "shall have the same meaning") we already know how this plays out. Federal law says an SBR is subject to the rifle definition. Done. Over. Nice knowing you. Go to law school or pay a lawyer.

What Jack killed someone?

 

[mav]

Some of you guys better pull some firing pins out of some of your sbr'd guns to nullify them being a "firearm" by definition in Massachusetts

Nah, I hedged my bets and went with a fixed stock and a pinned comp on my SBR, which is also not an AR/AK or clone or copy... so double plus good.

 

[Reptile]

Completely magical thinking. The definition of assault weapon under MA law is “shall have the same meaning as” federal law of 13-sep-1994. MA terminology is not in play. You take the object, regardless of what it is called in MA, and go visit federal land. You ask federal land to tell you “is this an AW or not”. Then with that answer you come back to MA and know whether the object you are holding is an AW or not, again, regardless of what MA calls the object.

In federal land a SBR is subject to the federal rifle definition of AW.

Done. There is no magic that lets if fall between the cracks. You can take whatever risks you want and believe whatever you want, but dont be fooled into thinking you are exempt. That is magical thinking where you convolute or misunderstand the law to get the outcome you want versus what is actually true.

This is not in fact that complicated. Because MA did not bring in federal text but instead “shall have the same meaning”, all federal definitions are in play for determining if the object is an AW or not. No confusion.

Please don’t perpetuate your magical thinking no matter how many NRA instructors, police friends, gunsmiths, or people who stayed at a holiday inn express last night say otherwise.

No, IANAL, but having consulted a top lawyer on this subject, I am 100% confident in what I am saying above.

Do SBR's in free states need a pinned and welded flash hider?

Are SBR's in free states legally considered rifles?

So, you are saying it must have a comp (can't have a flash hider) and it must be pinned an welded in Mass?


Can you please answer this question of a second topic?...

If you have many SBR stamps but you just have stripped lowers for those SBR's:

Can you have multiple uppers with comps that are not pinned or welded still in the box and not mated with said stripped lowers???

Some people are on a SBR Stamp and Upper buying frenzy who don't have time to build and just want the parts in their possession before a possible ban.
I'm thinking of buying some uppers to keep in reserve and in box. But if needed, I will take them to a shop to get them pinned.

 

[Lxpony]

Nah, I hedged my bets and went with a fixed stock and a pinned comp on my SBR, which is also not an AR/AK or clone or copy... so double plus good.

No sbr'd ak or ar = fail

 

[mopornop]

Some compensaters are made of aluminum. Unless using an aluminum pin (which would easily shear and unscrew), how do you weld steel to aluminum? Brazing, silver solder is the only thing I can think of.

 

[drgrant]

Some compensaters are made of aluminum. Unless using an aluminum pin (which would easily shear and unscrew), how do you weld steel to aluminum? Brazing, silver solder is the only thing I can think of.

Some? A cursory googling indicates otherwise.

Lol most brakes are steel. Only aluminum stuff is like for airsoft guns, etc. Decorations.

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

Compensator police were at the range yesterday. I was lucky.

Splain please...

 

[quinnjalan]

Rocksett....if not already mentioned

 

[cathouse01]

Some compensaters are made of aluminum. Unless using an aluminum pin (which would easily shear and unscrew), how do you weld steel to aluminum? Brazing, silver solder is the only thing I can think of.

There are techniques to weld aluminum to steel (laser welding is one), but most of these are way too complex for a pin/weld. The good news is that you don’t need to weld the pin itself for a pin/weld. The weld over the pin is just to keep it in place. In fact a good pin/weld will leave most of the pin “un-welded” so when you grind off the weld the pin will be able to fall out. With an aluminum muzzle device I'd drop in a steel pin slightly shorter than the hole and then do a filler weld with aluminum to lock it in place.

 

[cathouse01]

Rocksett....if not already mentioned

From the ATF National Firearms Act Handbook (bolding added):

The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

Most folks (including myself) think that Rocksett, Red Loctite, Gorilla Glue or JB Weld does not meet the above criteria.

 

[Da_lucche]

Another happy fun ball thing, I want to say less than a month ago some guy sucked for a full out guilty plea on an AWB charge (as well as a bunch of other garbage) for a gun that was clearly like a 10 or 12" SBR, it had a real stock and all, some kind of AR variant with an FH on it etc. The naysayers will go "bbbut he had no ellllteeecee and it was unregistered" but both of those things are wholly irrelevant to the context of an AWB charge. Having a stamp doesnt change what something "is" ins its technical-legal sense.

it is not irrelevant at all.

If he was in possession of an unregistered SBR, legally, that AR was a Title 1 rifle, not a Title 2 firearm. Since it was a Title 1, which specifically makes it a "rifle" under Mass LAW, then yes, he can get f***ed for the 94/98 AWB; because that AR doesn't not have Federal tax privilege to be considered a legal Title 2 "firearm" (under MA LAW)

Again, someone needs to get rolled up on a charge with a legal Title 2 firearm on a post 94 lower with evil features before anyone will know any better.

Also, we need the context of the AWB charge...was he charged for an evil feature or a post ban magazine? The latter would get him with an AWB charge as well.

 

[drgrant]

it is not irrelevant at all.

If he was in possession of an unregistered SBR, legally, that AR was a Title 1 rifle, not a Title 2 firearm.

Wrong.

ETA: An NFA device doesn't stop being an NFA device if someone did not register it, etc.

This belief that stuff changes because someone bought a stamp is more magical thinking... lol

ETA2: the guy got charged for the gun, from what i remember. There might have been lcafd charges etc but i didn’t care so much as that was not the interesting part.

 

[Da_lucche]

Wrong.

ETA: An NFA device doesn't stop being an NFA device if someone did not register it, etc.

This belief that stuff changes because someone bought a stamp is more magical thinking... lol

How can it be an NFA device when it isn't registered to be an NFA device? Being in violation of the NFA doesn't make an accused firearm an NFA item. It is a Title 1 rifle illegally configured as a Title 2 firearm, which still makes it a Title 1 rifle.

We will not know if that stuff changes because of a stamp until someone get rolled with a Title 2 NFA registered post 94 lower with evil features. Until then, going back and forth like this is all we can do lol

 

[drgrant]

How can it be an NFA device when it isn't registered to be an NFA device? Being in violation of the NFA doesn't make an accused firearm an NFA item. It is a Title 1 rifle illegally configured as a Title 2 firearm, which still makes it a Title 1 rifle.

Lol you're 110% wrong. An SBR, SBS, AOW , DD or an MG don't stop being those things, legally, even if they're somehow unregistered, illegally transferred, etc. " NFA Device" is a thing, not a declaration or state of legality.

There is no such thing as a Title 1 SBR, etc. More magical thinking on your part.

 

[Compooky]

From the ATF National Firearms Act Handbook (bolding added):

The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

Most folks (including myself) think that Rocksett, Red Loctite, Gorilla Glue or JB Weld does not meet the above criteria.

Some people might interpret the use of the word “include” to mean it it’s not limited to those methods.

 

[drgrant]

Like if I build an SBR that's unstamped, today, that device would still be a device regulated under title II. Failure to register or pay tax on that device is the "crime" that would be committed. The entire idea of "legality of possession" changing the technical definition of a gun under federal law is pure jackassery. There's nothing to support that idea in federal or even state law.

 

[426wedge]

Splain please...

Sarcasm!

 

[cathouse01]

Some people might interpret the use of the word “include” to mean it it’s not limited to those methods.

True, but I wouldn’t expect any MA judge to be reasonable. I think the key limiting factor is the demand that soldering be high temperature (>1100°F). Being able to withstand close to that heat would eliminate all of the adhesive solutions, since they all fail at well below that limit. Also, Rocksett can be removed by soaking over night in water, just too easy to be considered permanent.

 

[quinnjalan]

From the ATF National Firearms Act Handbook (bolding added):

The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

Most folks (including myself) think that Rocksett, Red Loctite, Gorilla Glue or JB Weld does not meet the above criteria.

Correct, but when some hard a$$ jaw head cop/ATF/other alphabet soup named .gov agency shears the end off a barrel he'll/they will then realized Rocksett is permanent! Either way if it gets to that point they'll have already nailed you on 2 dozen other related issues. Gun = Bad!