Best rifle ever?

[Jose]

PSG-1 was the answer to a specific problem during the Munich debacle, when the German snipers attempting the rescue of the Israeli athletes were inhibited by, among other things, an inability to take rapid followup shots.

Comparing it to a $500 Savage isn't even worth it. In the hands of shooters of equivalent skill, the PSG-1 will outperform a stock Savage just like it should. Yes, an accurized bolt-action will match and surpass the performance of the PSG-1 in terms of straight accuracy, but the capability for rapid followup shots (19-29 of them) is what separates the PSG-1 from bolt action rifles. In terms of capability, it's not as unique any more, but it was the only game in town, and defined its class when it was first introduced. They didn't have accurized .308 ARs back then, and the PSG-1 was a better rifle than other semi-auto designs such as the M21 and Dragunov.

There is NO WAY that you can get precision aimed fire faster out of a semi auto than you can out of a bolt action. Particularly when the distance is 200 meters and out.

You HAVE to slow down and reacquire your sight picture after recoil has passed. Competent bolt action rifle shooters know how to work the bolt during recoil without moving the rifle out of position.

The last two years I shot highpower competitively I enjoyed smoking guys shooting ARs with a Winchester Model 70 in the 300 yard rapid fire stage.

 

[Mass-diver]

There is NO WAY that you can get precision aimed fire faster out of a semi auto than you can out of a bolt action. Particularly when the distance is 200 meters and out.

You HAVE to slow down and reacquire your sight picture after recoil has passed. Competent bolt action rifle shooters know how to work the bolt during recoil without moving the rifle out of position.

The last two years I shot highpower competitively I enjoyed smoking guys shooting ARs with a Winchester Model 70 in the 300 yard rapid fire stage.

Jose interesting point, I've heard people make it a few times and I always wondering if it was true.

To be clear, were you smoking guys with semis because they weren't go shooters, or do you think that you could shoot a bolt a fast/accurately as you can shoot a semi (at decent distances 200yards+)?

 

[vellnueve]

Maybe you're just that good...

 

[Mass-diver]

Maybe you're just that good...

Or they are just that bad....

 

[Jose]

Maybe you're just that good...

Or maybe, just maybe, I speak from personal experience and you speak from reading books?

 

[45collector]

I believe that's my first time using the popcorn icon!

 

[Jose]

To be clear, were you smoking guys with semis because they weren't go shooters, or do you think that you could shoot a bolt a fast/accurately as you can shoot a semi (at decent distances 200yards+)?

It's the latter. I used a NM AR for the first five years that I shot Highpower, and made Master with it. When I switched to a bolt gun, soon after I was equaling my AR prone rapid fire scores and within a year I was beating them.

Gary Eliseo, High Master in HP Rifle showing his rifle design in rapid fire.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

My aim is to buy both down the road.

And 2000 yards worth of land to use them on

I think thats all of our dreams.. I've dreamed of going to Vermont buying land and having a field day, being one of the last free states out there.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Maybe you are thinking of the HK G3 SG1 ?

As that one is the predisesor to the PSG1 and its also select fire, IE Requires a tax stamp.

And my understanding is it wasn't Clinton but Bush #1 that banned the importation in 1989 of the HK rifles.

Clinton signed the 1994 crime bill that had the 1994 AWB in it that expired in 2004.

Does anyone know what would make the HK PSG1 A1 leo only? Has anyone seen shot one?Anyone seen one available somehow.Best one yet, anyone know a price or do I dare ask.It looks beautiful so why can't I have one? Would anyone believe me if I tell them I just want to hang it on the wall, you know like art?

 

[vellnueve]

The PSG-1 is LE only just because HK has forsaken the civilian rifle market.

 

[Mass-diver]

It's the latter. I used a NM AR for the first five years that I shot Highpower, and made Master with it. When I switched to a bolt gun, soon after I was equaling my AR prone rapid fire scores and within a year I was beating them.

Gary Eliseo, High Master in HP Rifle showing his rifle design in rapid fire.

Thanks, I don't know a ton about rifles and I've heard that for long range shooting than a bolt can be just as fast.

At what range do think the semi starts to have the edge (with .223)? I would think that in close you don't have to adjust much after the recoil with a light kicking semi, especially if we talking more defensive type shooting, not precision work?

As you tell, I don't have a lot of trigger time with a scoped semi, but the debate that this thread has bought up (nice remi 700s versus a scoped semi) is one that I think about a lot.


Anyways+1 to you.

 

[Jose]

Thanks, I don't know a ton about rifles and I've heard that for long range shooting than a bolt can be just as fast.

At what range do think the semi starts to have the edge (with .223)? I would think that in close you don't have to adjust much after the recoil with a light kicking semi, especially if we talking more defensive type shooting, not precision work?

As you tell, I don't have a lot of trigger time with a scoped semi, but the debate that this thread has bought up (nice remi 700s versus a scoped semi) is one that I think about a lot.


Anyways+1 to you.

I'd say up to 200 yards or so for general anti-personnel fire, the semi auto in an intermediate cartridge rules.

 

[Kalahari]

I shot competitively with bolt-action rifles for about 3-4 years. I've shot a little high-power with ARs as well.

I was, with far less practice, a better shooter on the AR platform. Primarily because there is far less movement involved, meaning less opportunity for error. The idea that one could "work the bolt during recoil" seems more than a little preposterous. I've never seen someone move the bolt during recoil. I don't think anyone's right hand is that quick. Not to mention it'd screw with your follow through.

It may very well be a subjective thing. What is best/easiest for one shooter is rarely best or easiest for all.

Me? I'd take the semi-auto (in the aforementioned situations).

 

[vellnueve]

I'd take the PSG just because it would be easier to use at close ranges if necessary.

However, full disclosure: I own a Remington 700 PSS that is far more accurate than I, and I love it. And most of my rifles are bolt guns.

 

[Kalahari]

I do think there's something to be said about the "personality" of bolt-action rifles.

 

[PatMcD]

I shot competitively with bolt-action rifles for about 3-4 years.
The idea that one could "work the bolt during recoil" seems more than a little preposterous. I've never seen someone move the bolt during recoil. I don't think anyone's right hand is that quick.
Not to mention it'd screw with your follow through.

If you were working a bolt gun in rapids, you were cycling the bolt during recoil whether you reallized it or not. Maybe not working it during that 1/2 second that the rifle actually moves during it's firing, but more than likely you were working it while your body was recovering from the recoil.

 

[Jose]

I was, with far less practice, a better shooter on the AR platform.

You're right. It takes more work to get good with a bolt gun.

The idea that one could "work the bolt during recoil" seems more than a little preposterous. I've never seen someone move the bolt during recoil. I don't think anyone's right hand is that quick. Not to mention it'd screw with your follow through.

Just because YOU can't do it doesn't mean others can't.

 

[Kalahari]

If you were working a bolt gun in rapids, you were cycling the bolt during recoil whether you reallized it or not. Maybe not working it during that 1/2 second that the rifle actually moves during it's firing, but more than likely you were working it while your body was recovering from the recoil.

That's a little different, to me. A semantic argument, nonetheless, so I'm not going to argue it. If all he meant was working the bolt while your body was still moving because of the recoil, then I agree. But the recoil of the gun is over probably faster than you can blink, so I don't imagine anyone could work the bolt that quickly.

Just because YOU can't do it doesn't mean others can't.

That's why I added this: "It may very well be a subjective thing. What is best/easiest for one shooter is rarely best or easiest for all." But I think we're just getting into a semantic argument, because my idea of "working the bolt during recoil" is probably different than yours.

 

[Jose]

That's a little different, to me. A semantic argument, nonetheless, so I'm not going to argue it. If all he meant was working the bolt while your body was still moving because of the recoil, then I agree. But the recoil of the gun is over probably faster than you can blink, so I don't imagine anyone could work the bolt that quickly.



That's why I added this: "It may very well be a subjective thing. What is best/easiest for one shooter is rarely best or easiest for all." But I think we're just getting into a semantic argument, because my idea of "working the bolt during recoil" is probably different than yours.

The fact of the matter is that bolt action rifles hold the lead over semi autos in National Highpower Rifle Championships (where 50% of the score is in rapid fire) even after the AR15 came to prominence almost 15 years ago.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

If the ban on importation of said non sporting (BS) rifles is still in effect, It would matter not what HK has to say about it.

IE if the ban is still in place the HK PSG-1 rifle can only be imported for LE/Government use.

The PSG-1 is LE only just because HK has forsaken the civilian rifle market.

 

[vellnueve]

That restriction was in place even before the import ban IIRC, but it was a toothless and meaningless restriction.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Ahhh OK so if its a toothless and meaningless restriction how about helping me import a few HK41's ?

You have a connection in Germany ?

That restriction was in place even before the import ban IIRC, but it was a toothless and meaningless restriction.

 

[vellnueve]

HK's restriction, not the import BAN

Seen any LE-only stamped mags and firearms out there? Colt 6920s and the like? Buy any boxes of Federal HST? It says LE only on it.

Work on your reading comprehension.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

I wasn't speaking of that (unknown to me) restriction.

I seem to get what ever I want or need so its a non issue.

SO no it wasn't a reading comprehension issue to me You can back off on that insult.

HK's restriction, not the import BAN

Seen any LE-only stamped mags and firearms out there? Colt 6920s and the like? Buy any boxes of Federal HST? It says LE only on it.

Work on your reading comprehension.