BEST GUNSMITH IN SE MA: Mountings scope and boresighting

paul73

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Setting up scope and zeroing the rifle is a most fun you get from the rifle ownership. I would never trust anybody else to do it for me.
 
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Live-a-Little

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Thanks everyone for the feedback on this one. I'll be calling Santurri tomorrow to schedule a drop off. Really want that peace of mind going into this hunt that took me long enough ti draw a tag for. Eventually I'll learn to do it myself but don;t need any complications before my trip.

Can’t go wrong with Dave. Just make sure before your trip you zero it in for the distances you think you’ll be hunting at or at least a known zero that will suit your needs.

GL and have fun. 🍻
 
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BTW guyz, if you loosen a properly-torqued machine screw m.n turns,
and then retighten it m.n turns (so that the slot clocks to the same angle),
is it properly torqued?

(Assuming no loctite or anti-seize For Great Simplicity).

Not a trick question. I figure the proper answer is one of:
  1. Uh duh.
  2. Oh noes! Because <insert obscure metal property here>.
I ain't got no inch-pound wrench,
and I wouldn't want to try to shade-tree gunsmith something delicate
with that hack, only to discover that metal fasteners
are like some Don Henley lyric where you can never go back.

Otherwise...


^ This.
my dad always said if you aint got a torque wrench pinch the allen wrench at the bend with thumb and forefinger and give it a snug.....
 
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Can’t go wrong with Dave. Just make sure before your trip you zero it in for the distances you think you’ll be hunting at or at least a known zero that will suit your needs.

GL and have fun. 🍻
for hunting ? hmm depends I guess but point blank range should do just fine. For so many hunting applications to 3.5" 4" high at 100 yards will get you a into a 10" kill zone shot on a deer out to a touch over 300 yards with a few handfuls of different cartridges. If your playing with your turrets or hold overs on your reticle theres more work to do for sure. If your shooting beyond these distances still a little more work to be done,
 
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Op, leveling a scope is super easy and you get the best results doing it yourself. With a set of levels(I prefer fix it sticks), a torque driver in inch pounds, and some loctite you can setup the scope specifically for you.

Everyone’s eyes and length of pull are different. Where you rest your cheek on the stock is also not the same. By doing it yourself you can bring the scope in or out to the perfect distance from your eye. This is something a gunsmith can’t do unless you are literally holding the gun, eye behind the scope while he levels it. He can probably get it close, but never as perfect as you will be able to.

This video explains everything perfectly.


View: https://youtu.be/COoXVpGfXQE


Also most manufacturers will give torque specs for each screw. An example would be Seekins Precision says to torque their scope caps to 20 inch pounds and the rail mounts to between 20 and 25 inch pounds.

A Question: Lets say you dont have any provisions for stock adjusting. When you bring a rifle up to position quickly while hunting you have a natural cant.......
Do you "level" the cross hairs
1. To what your eye sees as level
2. level to the action and live with the little cant
3. add a bit of counter canting?

I know ideally we all like to believe or rifle will be dead true when you bring them up to our shoulder to take a shot. Also its nice to have some sort of adjustment.

I will give you an example. When I shoot my M1 garand off hand I need to add a few minutes to the right to counter the cant to the left when I have the rifle to the shoulder and comfortable.
Fighting to keep the rifle "true" makes thins worse.

How much does canting effect aiming right on the cross hairs?
 

paul73

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Lets say you dont have any provisions for stock adjusting
then you replace the stock. seriously.
or you can put some foam and tape to build up self-made cheek rest.

with a proper stock you should be able to play with rings size to set scope at the correct eye level - so on the cz mtr i have i had to use taller than required rings to get that done. not an end of the world, as long as it aligns well what you bring rifle up with eyes closed and then open your eyes.
 
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BTW guyz, if you loosen a properly-torqued machine screw m.n turns,
and then retighten it m.n turns (so that the slot clocks to the same angle),
is it properly torqued?

(Assuming no loctite or anti-seize For Great Simplicity).

Not a trick question. I figure the proper answer is one of:
  1. Uh duh.
  2. Oh noes! Because <insert obscure metal property here>.
I ain't got no inch-pound wrench,
and I wouldn't want to try to shade-tree gunsmith something delicate
with that hack, only to discover that metal fasteners
are like some Don Henley lyric where you can never go back.

Otherwise...


^ This.
My mind says no on this. I've seen torque specs call for tightening a bolt to spec then loosen and re-torque (think AR barrell nut). I assume there is a science behind this method.

With anything, there is give. Depending on thread engagement, usage, class of thread, material, threads will become deformed over time. Technically the torque spec is supposed to keep those threads from becoming mangled while giving peak holding power, but it comes down to how precise is your torque wrench. Then you get into the craziness of calibrating everything to have repeatability with your actual measure results.

I went back and forth with a Harley dealer years ago because I didn't want to purchase new bolts that were holding my rotor and pulley to the rim. His response was that by tightening it, the threads "were stretched" and they wouldn't recommend re using the bolts. Total money grab. Aluminum rim vs steel bolt, who wins?
 

AHM

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my dad always said if you aint got a torque wrench pinch the allen wrench at the bend with thumb and forefinger and give it a snug.....
In an, er, pinch I imagine how heavy the 10 pound Panasonic TV was
that we got for camping when I was a kid,
and then do the math to derive a torque.

But that's mainly for when I'm stuck on a desert island without a torque wrench.

I've seen torque specs call for tightening a bolt to spec then loosen and re-torque (think AR barrell nut). I assume there is a science behind this method.
Beyond my experience, but sounds like an excellent (counter)example.
 
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then you replace the stock. seriously.
or you can put some foam and tape to build up self-made cheek rest.

with a proper stock you should be able to play with rings size to set scope at the correct eye level - so on the cz mtr i have i had to use taller than required rings to get that done. not an end of the world, as long as it aligns well what you bring rifle up with eyes closed and then open your eyes.
A comb riser is not going to help a “natural cant do to body contour or stick design.
I have adjustable recoil pads on my trap gun and others , love to install adjustable stock on my M1 garand especially LOP but match rules say no.
 
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In an, er, pinch I imagine how heavy the 10 pound Panasonic TV was
that we got for camping when I was a kid,
and then do the math to derive a torque.

But that's mainly for when I'm stuck on a desert island without a torque wrench.


Beyond my experience, but sounds like an excellent (counter)example.
Believe me , for rings from 20-30 inch pounds this method will work . Or order a torque driver in inlbs
Not w fan of amazon but says I can have it tomorrow

View: https://www.amazon.com/Wheeler-Accurizing-Measurement-Gunsmithing-Maintenance/dp/B0012AXR4S/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=3IIL9SFZ3EADP&dchild=1&keywords=in+lb+torque+wrench&qid=1635156062&qsid=136-9077671-6984346&sprefix=inlb+&sr=8-5&sres=B01M12284X%2CB07M68FY3X%2CB0012AXR4S%2CB00C5ZL2EG%2CB01FMXEWQC%2CB01LX4ND65%2CB001F7VJIO%2CB005EB9O9S%2CB00SNICDJC%2CB07DP6ZS7G%2CB08RBCFY92%2CB07WSS52T5%2CB016KC2SNS%2CB07BYC1V9Y&srpt=WRENCH
 

allen-1

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BTW guyz, if you loosen a properly-torqued machine screw m.n turns,
and then retighten it m.n turns (so that the slot clocks to the same angle),
is it properly torqued?

(Assuming no loctite or anti-seize For Great Simplicity).

Not a trick question. I figure the proper answer is one of:
  1. Uh duh.
  2. Oh noes! Because <insert obscure metal property here>.
I ain't got no inch-pound wrench,
and I wouldn't want to try to shade-tree gunsmith something delicate
with that hack, only to discover that metal fasteners
are like some Don Henley lyric where you can never go back.

Otherwise...


^ This.

Nope.

Bolts stretch. Washers flatten.
Use a torque wrench to get properly torqued bolts.

It might be "good enough", but it's not "properly torqued".
 

Mesatchornug

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Nope.

Bolts stretch. Washers flatten.
Use a torque wrench to get properly torqued bolts.

It might be "good enough", but it's not "properly torqued".
Right. A torqued bolt is under tension. In effect, it's a spring. There are a bunch of things to look out for, including creep that can affect final torque.

It also depends how tight your tolerance is.
 

paul73

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the old way to torque the mount was to use one with the 60in/lb nuts and then you tighten those nuts firm by hand, as much as you can, then get a wrench and add one 180deg rotation.
a proper torque wrench is of course the much better way, no excuse not to have one.
 

groundscrapers

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Thanks everyone for the feedback on this one. I'll be calling Santurri tomorrow to schedule a drop off. Really want that peace of mind going into this hunt that took me long enough ti draw a tag for. Eventually I'll learn to do it myself but don;t need any complications before my trip.
make sure and work up some dope. The elevation is much higher and trajectory will be slightly different from sea level to out there.
 

AHM

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my dad always said if you aint got a torque wrench pinch the allen wrench at the bend with thumb and forefinger and give it a snug.....
Believe me , for rings from 20-30 inch pounds this method will work .
I assume I'll have to use my left hand to pinch the allen wrench
in order to employ a normal human grip strength.
71YtT73YcUL.jpg
 

Nfdbrian

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Mike over at Public Safety Armory in Rehoboth is another option. He did a Vortex scope install for me. Rings were lapped and torqued down properly and even bore sighted it in to get me close.

 
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