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Bend Over Fitchburg Gun Owners -- Here it Comes!

That would be a real shame to see. I have family that have held unrestricted LTC's for over a decade. As much as I'd like to end up unrestricted, I'm more bothered by the idea that what town you live in decides what you get regardless of personal merit. There really needs to be a stricter standard in terms of how much power a licensing authority has.

I worked hard on my letter, and have great references, I included zero sporting reasons and primarily defense reasons. I'm not living in fear or anything but this area isn't the greatest right now. At my close friend's automotive shop we regularly have prostitutes and other degenerates just passing by at night. And most of the time we have no choice but to leave the shop doors open. In the end though, I did my best to try and convey as much maturity as I could. The Fitchburg Police force is a good group and I can only hope the Chief will review my application with an open mind.
 
Well I may just live in such a town. We'll see over the next couple of weeks. When I finish with college and graduate with my MBA then I plan on getting out of the state entirely. Unfortunately, that's at least two and a half years away.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if with this douchebag they're going to restrict all licenses, at least the new ones. This chief strikes me as the long lost brother of Gary Gemme. [thinking]

-Mike

Mike, you better watch what you say. He will be lookin' for you. Your picture is located right below your screen name evry time you post.
 
Mike, you better watch what you say. He will be lookin' for you. Your picture is located right below your screen name evry time you post.


And that was him in a good mood, least they got his good side.......teehee................

My picture is in black and white, maybe he won't recognize me.

Right now the chief has a full plate, he just let go the former acting chief on a possible bogus technicality. If it plays out like it might, when his contract comes up for renewal, in the next year and a half, he might be looking for another job. Then all that needs to happen is to get the mayor out.

I hope we can vote to get the laws changes real soon, so this will no longer be a problem. I certainly wish we had the energy from people like we do with the Brown campaign, imagine what would be possible........................
 
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That would be a real shame to see. I have family that have held unrestricted LTC's for over a decade. As much as I'd like to end up unrestricted, I'm more bothered by the idea that what town you live in decides what you get regardless of personal merit. There really needs to be a stricter standard in terms of how much power a licensing authority has.

In the overwhelming majority of the rest of the US, the local cops have zero say in what guns you can buy and carry. I'd like to see the same standard applied to Mass., at a minimum.
 
In the overwhelming majority of the rest of the US, the local cops have zero say in what guns you can buy and carry. I'd like to see the same standard applied to Mass., at a minimum.
100% agreed. The ridiculous approved firearms roster needs to go, as does this "may issue" nonsense. I understand why the concept exists, but the truth is that it leaves far too much leeway for a licensing agent. At this point it's just being blatantly abused.
 
100% agreed. The ridiculous approved firearms roster needs to go, as does this "may issue" nonsense. I understand why the concept exists, but the truth is that it leaves far too much leeway for a licensing agent. At this point it's just being blatantly abused.

The compliance crap has nothing to do with what hes' talking about, I think. (Although I would like to see it go too... obviously). I think what he is referring to is the LTC-B ramming by some corrupt chiefs.... when they do this, it severely restricts the handguns you can buy, as it puts all the common double stack handguns out of reach.

-Mike
 
The compliance crap has nothing to do with what hes' talking about, I think. (Although I would like to see it go too... obviously). I think what he is referring to is the LTC-B ramming by some corrupt chiefs.... when they do this, it severely restricts the handguns you can buy, as it puts all the common double stack handguns out of reach.

-Mike
Almost forgot that some towns have been known to do that. Fitchburg actually tried that early in September right when this mess started. Back then when I first called I was told that by order of the Chief no Class A licenses would be issued unless for employment.
 
its amazing how many LEOs I've met that don't even know the laws they "enforce". That is stunning.
Which is one of many reasons behind the separation of powers between the judiciary and the executive (enforcement) branch that are violated by MA gun laws.

It was understood more than 200 years ago that law enforcement was both less than perfect in their interpretation of the law as well as their enforcement of it. Separating out the judiciary provides a check-valve to provide objectivity/review to this process to limit intrusions upon our rights as a result of poor interpretation of the law.

Suitability flies in the face of this concept...
 
At this point it's just being blatantly abused.

Exactly. While it sounds good on paper to let the local chief decide who gets to carry a gun, it's useless as far as preventing crime goes, and the standards are so different that you need a chart (helpfully supplied here on NES as a sticky at the top of the forum) to figure out what you'll need to even apply for the license.

I'm not even remotely an anti-cop person, as evidenced by several pissing matches in threads on here [laugh], but I also understand that police chiefs are usually political appointees who have a whole different agenda than the regular beat cop.

The compliance crap has nothing to do with what hes' talking about, I think. (Although I would like to see it go too... obviously). I think what he is referring to is the LTC-B ramming by some corrupt chiefs.... when they do this, it severely restricts the handguns you can buy, as it puts all the common double stack handguns out of reach.

-Mike

B ramming and restricted LTC-A's. In almost every other state in the US, even CA, HI, RI, IL, WI where carry is severaly restricted or they have "approved firearms rosters," no police chief can arbitrarily prevent a law abiding citizen from buying a gun to keep in their house. The Mass. laws are bad enough, but when you have to worry at renewal time if you're going to have to sell off all your large-cap pistols if your chief downgrades you to an LTC-B...it's disgusting.

I know tons of gun owners who want nothing more than to keep a pistol in their dresser drawer, or to hunt or hit the range with a rifle once every couple years. In free states all they have to do is pass a NICS check (which still isn't nearly a perfect system, but leaps and bounds ahead of Mass.), and as long as they don't go out and pick up a felony or domestic violence conviction, for the rest of their life it's perfectly legal to keep that pistol in their drawer, or that rifle in their closet.

In Mass., if you own guns and want to move two towns over to shorten your work commute or lower your local taxes, you have to do research into your local chiefs views on the 2nd amendment, and plan your move accordingly. You have to apply to renew your permit early, because depending on staffing at your local PD or how long it takes them to process your application (even though legally they only have a month or two, which is routinely ignored), your license could lapse, and you'd be in legal trouble for the days, weeks or months you wait for your permit to come in. You also have to worry about if everytime a scumbag gets shot in your municipality your police chief is going to change his licensing policy yet again (see the first post in this thread for an example of that).

What you end up with is a system in Mass. like everywhere else in the world. Devoted criminals still get guns on the black market, and only the law abiding have to jump through more hoops to access their "rights." Someone like myself or many other on this forum who are passionate about guns are willing to jump through all the legal hoops, or are forced to unless they want to lose a very valuable collection. But the average, every day people are left at the mercy of a chief who can carry in all 50 states, even if he's the subject of a restraining order. It's not fair, it's not right, and it's not changing unless people step up and make their voices heard.

This is particularly maddening in Fitchburg, with them shutting off streetlights, laying off cops and shootings happening every other week or so.

/rant
 
Update on my end. Class A unrestricted. Issued a mere 4 weeks after my application. First time applicant. Age 21.

I don't think anyone should get their hopes up though. I had phenomenal recommendations and probably wouldn't have been so lucky without such good people vouching for me. It remains to be seen whether or not Fitchburg will officially gain the "red" title in the coming months.
 
Update on my end. Class A unrestricted. Issued a mere 4 weeks after my application. First time applicant. Age 21.

I don't think anyone should get their hopes up though. I had phenomenal recommendations and probably wouldn't have been so lucky without such good people vouching for me. It remains to be seen whether or not Fitchburg will officially gain the "red" title in the coming months.

Good news! Perhaps the Chief has seen the humongous error of his original stance. Or not.........

Regardless, we're watching.
 
Update on my end. Class A unrestricted. Issued a mere 4 weeks after my application. First time applicant. Age 21.

I don't think anyone should get their hopes up though. I had phenomenal recommendations and probably wouldn't have been so lucky without such good people vouching for me. It remains to be seen whether or not Fitchburg will officially gain the "red" title in the coming months.

Good for you. Get some training, and have fun.
 
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As referenced from "Gun Facts" Version 5.1 Page 49 thru 54 [I]www.GunFacts.info[/I] by Guy Smith

Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime.

Fact: Thirty-nine states, comprising the majority of the American population, are "right-to-carry" states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Nine states restrict the right to carry and two deny it outright.

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988.(I recall seeing a statistic once that showed LEO's are well above this figure.)

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005).

Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second.285 Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.

Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws.

Fact: States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.

Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995, the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%.

So why does he want to restrict LTC-A Holders?
 
As referenced from "Gun Facts" Version 5.1 Page 49 thru 54 [I]www.GunFacts.info[/I] by Guy Smith

So why does he want to restrict LTC-A Holders?
The answer is that they choose to ignore this reality.

Instead they quote MA's below average crime rate (while ignoring the rise in crime since 1998 laws went into effect), and say "MA gun laws work." They repeat this often enough that people start believing it...

You see, you are starting from the logical position of "if more guns means less crime, then let's have more guns." They are starting from "I am scared of guns, so let's find a way to remove them from existence." You and I know, this is absurd, you will never "disarm" bad people. Even if, by some miracle you managed to destroy every gun on the planet, the bad people would create weapons and hurt people just the same (if not more for lack of fear of defense).

As Jim Wallace so correctly put it, they are starting from an "emotionally insecure" stance against guns and as such, logic has little to no meaning.
 
More bad news. One of my references asked me to do him a favor and answer some questions about Fitchburg's process to a neighbor of his who is looking to apply for a class A. Just heard back from the neighbor and it turns out Fitchburg is no longer even accepting applications at this time due to "budgetary and personnel restrictions."
 
So there going to make criminals out of people by refusing to process their applications before their license expires? And what “budgetary” concerns? Don’t you have to pay $100 for the honor of their services? What budget does that come out of?
 
More bad news. One of my references asked me to do him a favor and answer some questions about Fitchburg's process to a neighbor of his who is looking to apply for a class A. Just heard back from the neighbor and it turns out Fitchburg is no longer even accepting applications at this time due to "budgetary and personnel restrictions."

Can they even do that? I mean refuse to accept an application.
 
If Fitchburg is screwing around by not accepting applications then it seems to me that the State would become the issuing agent. Maybe Scriv can answer that?
 
So there going to make criminals out of people by refusing to process their applications before their license expires? And what “budgetary” concerns? Don’t you have to pay $100 for the honor of their services? What budget does that come out of?

Well you and I pay $100, but almost none of that stays with the PD.

Only $25 stays with the town and per MGLs, it must go into the "general fund" (where schools typically get the lion's share) and can not legally be put in a "revolving fund" (where the PD could keep the money to pay the cost of processing, OT, etc.).

Can they even do that? I mean refuse to accept an application.

They can do what they want . . . until someone calls them on it. Taunton did this. Letters and phone calls to State Legislators is a quick way to change this "policy" ad the Taunton Chief found out.
 
Once the Class A license is issued it shouldn't have to be justified to retain it. I'd state my reason for needing a Class A as having hi capacity weapons that I opt to keep. Taking the license away or reducing it with no direct cause of the licensee other than an arbitrary decision by the chief is a denial to one's right to property which becomes a 5th amendment issue...assuming that taking any high cap weapons would be for public use if done under the guise of public safety then the town should be required to pay the full value of the weapons or the difference of full value and what a dealer would pay. In other words, threaten to sue the town for each class A denied and let them weigh the headaches.

5th Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No...

I hope that GOAL gives this guy a call to straighten this out. They will become a felon for pistols that many in that town already own...
 
I hope that GOAL gives this guy a call to straighten this out. They will become a felon for pistols that many in that town already own...
Actually no - read up on Chapter 140 Section 131m. While a civil fine of $500 to $5000 is not to be taken lightly, the statement that someone whose license is expired and not renewed becomes a felon is not necessarily accurate.

(m) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269, any person in possession of a firearm, rifle or shotgun whose license issued under this section is invalid for the sole reason that it has expired, meaning after 90 days beyond the stated expiration date on the license, but who shall not be disqualified from renewal upon application therefor under this section, shall be subject to a civil fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 and the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply; provided,....
 
More bad news. One of my references asked me to do him a favor and answer some questions about Fitchburg's process to a neighbor of his who is looking to apply for a class A. Just heard back from the neighbor and it turns out Fitchburg is no longer even accepting applications at this time due to "budgetary and personnel restrictions."

That's why they slashed their hours so far before to something like a couple of hours a month for processing gun licenses. With all the layoffs and city budget problems I can't say I'm surprised.

Actually no - read up on Chapter 140 Section 131m. While a civil fine of $500 to $5000 is not to be taken lightly, the statement that someone whose license is expired and not renewed becomes a felon is not necessarily accurate.

Some people get an expired LTC-A and getting downgraded to an LTC-B on renewal confused.
 
Some people get an expired LTC-A and getting downgraded to an LTC-B on renewal confused.
Yup. Assuming the person applied for an "A", issuing a B would definitely be a "denial" thus negating the provisions of 141/131m. Since the topic at hand was "not processing renewals creating felons", I assumed "downgrade from A to B" was not the subject under discussion.
 
I thought it was held in the court of NES that it is not a denail because you still were issued a license, no?

True, not only that but I have been told that judges have thrown out cases where someone tried to "appeal" issuance of a "downgraded" LTC. To a MA judge, a LTC is an LTC and they are all the same wrt issuance . . . but not wrt breaking other laws (possessing something your class of LTC doesn't permit).
 
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