bedroom closet for locked gun storage

[Rifling]

Hey guys I was wondering if MA law has specific guidelines for gun storage. Ill be moving soon and the bedroom has a walk-in closet that I want to make into something for gun storage.

1. Is it necessary to have fireproof insulation? I know it would be safer since there would be ammo stored in there too but is it a must?

2. Would I have to reinforce the door or would a deadbolt is sufficient? Deadbolt would be locked from the inside keyed from the outside to make sure noone else can access the room.

3. Would it be okay to hang the rifles and shotguns on a rack within the closet?

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I'm sure that there are a bunch of threads on this. Jack.

 

[jasons]

The actual law doesn't clearly say whether or not a locked closet would be sufficient, but supposedly there's case law (or maybe just someone's opinion) that says it's not.

Of course leaving your rifle on the coffee table with a two dollar trigger lock on it is OK. Don't try to make sense of the laws.

It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Regarding ammo storage, I see no requirement for fireproofing. The applicable law is quoted here: http://goal.org/masslawpages/ammostorage.html

"small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder shall be stored in original containers and such containers shall be stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use."

 

[Rifling]

I'm sure that there are a bunch of threads on this. Jack.

I had trouble finding the right ones for the questions I have

 

[1903Collector]

Just my two bits.....buy safe...bolt to wall...done!

 

[TBalls]

Just my two bits.....buy safe...bolt to wall...done!

+1 on this. Get a quick access box of some kind for a HD gun.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

#1 - Get a safe. The statute is really designed to prevent unauthorized (whatever that is) use and access. But really, if you invest a lot of money in your stuff, don't you want to protect it?

#2 -Based upon existing case law, your plan should be fine. Now, that said, case law is really only going to come into play once you've been charged and are before the court, a situation you want to avoid in the first place.

It can be 'effing expensive to be right. Police and prosecutors are free make their own decision about what does and does not proper storage under 131L. At thought point you'll have a choice: a cheap and easy plea where you walk, or an expensive trial where you actually run some risk of incarceration.

 

[drgrant]

Hint: Good attorneys are several hundred bucks an hour. A safe that will keep out most dirtbags and legal questions will probably cost you less than 2 or 3 hours with said attorney. You do the math.

-Mike

 

[Rifling]

Ok I got it. I have a small safe now but was looking to expand my collection a bit and didn't want to have to buy a second safe but seems like it would be a smarter choice. Thanks for your input guys

 

[inerlogic]

"small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder shall be stored in original containers and such containers shall be stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use."

1) locked cabinet
2) closet
3) or box

so if stored in a cabinet it has to be locked... but i can store the stuff in my closet or a cardboard box unlocked?


also just so we're clear... spent brass is considered ammunition in the PRM so, lock up your spent brass also....

 

[jasons]

Hint: Good attorneys are several hundred bucks an hour. A safe that will keep out most dirtbags and legal questions will probably cost you less than 2 or 3 hours with said attorney. You do the math.

-Mike

Then again you can build an actual vault to store your guns and still get jammed up by your local dictator if he doesn't like the cut of your jib.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...01/04/police_40_guns_stolen_from_lowell_home/

Police said Tuesday that officers responded to a Dublin Street home Monday afternoon after the owner reported that someone had broken into the cellar in which he stored a vault containing the guns.
...
Police immediately revoked the gun owner's Massachusetts license to carry a firearm, saying the potential of the missing firearms being used on Lowell streets is disconcerting.

MA: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[drgrant]

Then again you can build an actual vault to store your guns and still get jammed up by your local dictator if he doesn't like the cut of your jib.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...01/04/police_40_guns_stolen_from_lowell_home/



MA: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

True enough. Stan's case is pretty telling.... if the authorities don't like you, they will try to railroad you regardless of what you've done.

Same thing has shown its teeth with "MTBS guy" before, as well. The law be damned, the "authoritays" can do whatever they want- and get away with it.

-Mike

 

[WanMan99]

I store all of my stuff (well not all of it.....) in a locked closet (8x8). However, I also keep my rifles in locked hard cases and my handguns in a locked, padded carry case. This way when I want to head to the range I have the locked, unloaded and stored part ready to go for the car ride to the range. My reloading supplies and ammo I just keep on a metro cart shelving system in the same closet (locked door to the closet so they are all set).

 

[Rifling]

I store all of my stuff (well not all of it.....) in a locked closet (8x8). However, I also keep my rifles in locked hard cases and my handguns in a locked, padded carry case. This way when I want to head to the range I have the locked, unloaded and stored part ready to go for the car ride to the range. My reloading supplies and ammo I just keep on a metro cart shelving system in the same closet (locked door to the closet so they are all set).

That's what I was thinking of doing but without the locked cases but, instead with combo trigger locks. From what I remember reading a tamper resistant trigger lock is enough for any type of storage, is this correct? And I know that pd can pretty slap you with any charges they feel like.

 

[jasons]

From what I remember reading a tamper resistant trigger lock is enough for any type of storage, is this correct?

I posted the relevant law already, but just in case you missed it:

It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

 

[Rifling]

I posted the relevant law already, but just in case you missed it:

Ah I see the "or" now I'm going to save that section.

 

[fbirdquik6]

Case law says no.

 

[jasons]

Case law says no.

Got any details on that?

 

[ShadeWPI]

Because the relavent MGL states "locked container" you might find yourself arguing whether a closet meets the definition of "container" Since it's unlikely a container was ever defined by the General Court, you'll need to review the "common language" meaning of container, which a closet, as an integral portion of a house, will likely not satisfy.

Keep in mind, making this argument in court will likely cost you 50-150 thousand dollars.

In addition, if the firearm is ever stolen and you are found to be in violation of proper storage, you may be criminally and civily liable for the use of those firearms by the person who stole them.

 

[fbirdquik6]

Got any details on that?

Case law states that a locked room does not constitute a locked container. It was just reinforced in this months Legal Updates, during in service. Unfortunately once you finish the course, you cant reopen the material. Oh, and I scored a 100 on my test

 

[Keyman1808]

The closet will be fine as long as they are trigger locked also. You only need to trigger lock. Securing them in the closet is just a second layer of security


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?bsdxzt

 

[jasons]

Case law states that a locked room does not constitute a locked container. It was just reinforced in this months Legal Updates, during in service. Unfortunately once you finish the course, you cant reopen the material. Oh, and I scored a 100 on my test

What I'm asking is which case, specifically?

 

[fbirdquik6]

What I'm asking is which case, specifically?

I cant reopen the course to see it.

 

[JimB]

Just my two bits.....buy safe...bolt to wall...done!

yes

 

[Mike-Mike]

Case law states that a locked room does not constitute a locked container. It was just reinforced in this months Legal Updates, during in service. Unfortunately once you finish the course, you cant reopen the material. Oh, and I scored a 100 on my test

A room is not a closet. There is no living space in the closet.

 

[reveille]

I also was going to post a thread like this thankfully you did. After the GF left i had a huge closet to store my guns/ammo and other stuff. Now after my keychain looks like this,

I think its time for a safe myself, and have faster access to the AR in a worst case scenario, rather than fumbling with them damn keys.

 

[JohnnyViper]

good luck with living in lowell, a poor guy is being hung for is guns being stolen from his safe, they are making him out as a criminal and not the victim he is

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Case law states that a locked room does not constitute a locked container. It was just reinforced in this months Legal Updates, during in service. Unfortunately once you finish the course, you cant reopen the material. Oh, and I scored a 100 on my test

What I'm asking is which case, specifically?

He's talking about Comm v. Parzick. Parzick claimed that his locked bedroom was a locked container. The court didn't buy it primarily because it was secured with a privacy lock, not a 'secure' lock. IIRC the opinion goes on to speculate that had the bedroom been better secured it might pass muster.

Going to the other extreme have Lojko where an appeals court ruled that the secure container (a locked Glock pistol case) met the standards of 131L and the fact that the case wasn't in a 'secure location' (in this case the pistol case was in an ingloo cooler on Lojko's back porch) wasn't relevant.

Recently a district court (i.e. no precedental value) dismissed storage charges against someone storing rifles in a closet. In this case, the guns were not operational (I believe the defendant had removed the bolts or firing pins) and therefore didn't not meet the statutory definition of rifle or shotgun.

These last two examples carry the DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME disclaimer. Similar situations may very well be dismissed by the court or be ruled in favor of the defendant, but that doesn't means someone wouldn't get charged initially. An that will be expensive and mess up your life for a period of time.

 

[houdini]

get a safe, behind a lock door is not a good idear,there was a case that someone had a closet for his guns the lock was not a good one you can push a pin in the middle of to open thet arrrested him for improper secure of fire arms.

 

[jasons]

He's talking about Comm v. Parzick. Parzick claimed that his locked bedroom was a locked container. The court didn't buy it primarily because it was secured with a privacy lock, not a 'secure' lock. IIRC the opinion goes on to speculate that had the bedroom been better secured it might pass muster.

OK, thanks. So that case pertained to a "locked" room with a bs lock, not a locked closet with a real lock and a reinforced door.