Bass Pro-On the wrong side of the AG already?

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I also believe that BP Corporate "knew what they were doing" and took an "in your face" attitude until they got "the call" from the AG. Then they went whelping like a whipped dog, ducking for cover. Their plan on making their customers "whole" for returning the guns also looks like nobody "had a plan". Even if they finally gave Don a reasonable discount, making him wait around for 3 hours+ was unconscionable . . . and I was talking with Don (and others) for a good part of that time.

Nothing (even if BP copped an attitude) condones the dealer "dropping a dime" on them however. Big companies frequently think "we have a big legal staff, what can one small dealer/org offer that we can't accomplish ourselves" . . . even though those that are "closer to the action" frequently have a much better understanding than some corporate lawyers 1000 miles away.
 
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Couldn't this "so-called Ma. gun dealers assc." all get together and file a law suit against the AG? There's power in numbers. Maybe a statewide boycott of all gunshops is in order until this gets resolved.[shocked]

Yeah right...dream on!


I'm new to all this mass law stuff.. so just ignore me if this sounds dumb...

Why doesn't the NRA help with this AG stuff?
 
C-pher, I do want to thank you for your insights, but I think you should extract yourself from this now, you've done all you can, and I think some people are taking it out on you as if you had some control of this issue. Thanks for your attempt to be rational, it escapes many of our members.

I spoke to the dealer in question yesterday, and he told me, just as Ripach said, that the AG originally heard of the Glock sales from people posting on this forum as soon as they got home with their guns. He said he was not the first, or the last to call. He said he called BPS before the incident, and admitted they kind of sluffed him off and ignored his information.

He thanked LenS for doing the best he could for trying to keep the issue mute by monitoring the posts.

I don't think any of us are served by conducting a witch hunt or a boycott on this or any other dealer for this reason. He competes according to the rules, and deserves fair competition.

I don't think BPS had any intention of fighting for "OUR" rights... they were just making a mistake. If I thought they did it in our behalf, to support gun rights in Massachusetts, I would make them my primary supplier,.... but they weren't tilting at windmills, they were just doing business...poorly, at first.
 
Why doesn't the NRA help with this AG stuff?
1) the NRA mostly focuses on national issues. In states with a well-organized state firearms association, the NRA typically defers to that organization. Here in MA, GOAL does most of the lobbying. Realize, of course, that neither of these organizations can lobby without money provided by you, and that your membership dues don't provide dollars for lobbying. Furthermore, your participation in the political process is far more important than any lobbying done by the NRA and/or GOAL. You can't count on your rep/senator to understand the issue. You can't count on your rep/senator to listen to you. You can count on your rep/senator to count the voters who are calling him on each side of an issue.

2) No matter how much money the NRA, NSSF, and/or GOAL spend in MA, the reality is that most of the voters, the vast majority of the politicians, and most judges in MA are anti-gun. Even if the NRA came in with a pile of money, the chances are they would lose. It makes more sense for the NRA to spend its money on getting concealed carry passed in Wisconsin, where they have a chance to win, then to spend it on a lost cause here in MA.

3) MA gun dealers and the NSSF filed suit against the AG when the regulations were first enacted. They lost the decision and due to snafus failed to file an appeal in time.

It is my understanding that it would be hard to challenge the regulations in court again. But I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV...
 
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I spoke to the dealer in question yesterday, and he told me, just as Ripach said, that the AG originally heard of the Glock sales from people posting on this forum as soon as they got home with their guns. He said he was not the first, or the last to call. He said he called BPS before the incident, and admitted they kind of sluffed him off and ignored his information.


and where might I find these post?
 
Well intentioned individual: Hey I heard that in Massachusetts that we can only sell guns "Approved for Massachusetts"

Bass Pro Corporate: Really? Shit ........... see what you can find out.

Well intentioned individual: Hey, I found this thing called "The approved firearms roster" check this out.

Bass Pro Corporate: Is our inventory on the list?

Well intentioned individual: Yes, It looks like it's all here.

Bass Pro Corporate: Great, no problem then, sell what you got.


What makes you think it was anything more than that!
 
kclo, they are posted on the members forum, or were. You would have to be a paid member of NES to see the 20+ pages of posts dealing with this issue.

Ripach's comment, which is similar to mine, is posted somewhere on THIS thread. Read the now 22 pages and you'll find it.

Good luck
 
I would be more inclined to believe the "we were only trying to help" excuse, "the AG already knew" ploy, the "NES posters did it" and the suddenly convenient "multiple dealers called", if the people who allege these things had the stones to swing by and post. Otherwise, it's nothing more than hearsay - period. Sounds like a rat pack running for cover if you ask me.....What happened to the "dealer is proud of what he did" - which post was that anyway? Why doesn't the gun dealer or dealers who are "so proud" of cooperating with the anti gun and anti gun dealer Attorney General stop by and give us all a rosie explanation about how this helps any of us? Some truth would be refreshing....
 
2) No matter how much money the NRA, NSSF, and/or GOAL spend in MA, the reality is that most of the voters, the vast majority of the politicians, and most judges in MA are anti-gun. Even if the NRA came in with a pile of money, the chances are they would lose. It makes more sense for the NRA to spend its money on getting concealed carry passed in Wisconsin, where they have a chance to win, then to spend it on a lost cause here in MA.

I contacted the NRA attempting to enlist legal help on the mail order of ammo and components, suggesting a federal action based on the UCC's definition of FOB. If the federal court upheld the concept that an FOB sale takes place at the time and location of delivery of the merchandise to the common carrier, MA would lack jurisdiction in the matter.

The first few emails were written assuming I was an clueless, and were just cut & pastes from MGL. Once the NRA "got it" and understood the "FOB" based action I was suggesting, I received a very polite email explaining that no assistance would be forthcoming from the NRA on this matter.
 
makes me wonder how "lesser people" got treated when they returned the Glocks!
It depends. If someone returned the Glock before the deal was worked out, they need to retake "negotiation 101".


What makes you think it was anything more than that!
Sounds like a decent explanation, especially when you consider that (according to posts on this list) staff was instructed not to argue legality with customers.
 
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Why would a dealer want to change the AG/Ammo rules??

They make a KILLING in the state of MA because of the rules...
They also do not have to compete with the Internet...

Yes, only a handful of dealers left... but the fewer shops that are left.. the more $$$ the ones that stay open make..

again.. why would they want to help "each other out"?

now.. I'm looking to spend $1k this week on a new handgun.. Please PM with the name of the dealer so I know to scratch it off my list of places to look...
 
Dealers would actually benefit from getting the AG list gone. A lot of money out there for those pistols that can't be transferred through dealers.
 
Dealers would actually benefit from getting the AG list gone. A lot of money out there for those pistols that can't be transferred through dealers.


This is the FFL transfer fee right?

I guess I can see that... heck.. that would be the biz to be in.. just swapping paperwork for cash...

But on the other side.. that would cause a big increase in FFL dealers.. and I would bet a lot of "out of the house" dealers... at the end.. would drive down the transfer fee... just thinking off the top of my mind.. so I'm 95% full of crap.. but what if that 5% is true.. ;)
 
Why would a dealer want to change the AG/Ammo rules??

They make a KILLING in the state of MA because of the rules...
They also do not have to compete with the Internet...

Yes, only a handful of dealers left... but the fewer shops that are left.. the more $$$ the ones that stay open make..

Indeed. One dealer said as much to me. The AG's unilateral elimination of mail order sales has created a windfall profit for Mass. dealers by eliminating their greatest competition for the ammunition/component market.

There's no margin in .22 ammo; Wally World sells it for what your local shop pays for it, if not less. It is in the niche marketing; bulk sales (especially surplus ammo), bullets, primers and powder that there is no "big box" competition for dealers.

As with the windfall profits dealers made during the Federal AWB panic buys, the AG's edict created a near-monopoly on ammunition and component sales for the remaining local dealers.
 
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I know this is going to sound like BS, I find it hard to believe myself.

Last night the dealer in question sent me an e mail explaining his point of view, and stating that he was not the first or the last to call.

He gave me permission to post his e-mail on this forum on his behalf, as he is not a user or member here.

Well I would have done that, but last night while cleaning up my E mail messages, I accidentally deleted his e mail, and I can't find it anywhere with file recovery or any other techniques I know.

I don't feel like I should paraphrase his words, and I don't want to post his name without "HIS WORDS" to be a direct quote.

Surely everyone will know sooner or later. I just don't think this information should be on the internet. I would prefer to see it discussed in person, member to member. Some of the posts I see here are very severe in their intent, as usual, and there are some more reasonable posters as well. I spoke with many members at the gun show in Holbrook on Sunday, and it was pretty common knowledge. The fact that the name hasn't been posted yet is a sign of moderation on the part of those members who know.

Once the witch hunt is over, and every one knows who it was, they can talk to him directly and hear his side of the story.

Derek, you're a computer guy. If you can tell me how to access my deleted Outlook Express file, I'll post the e-mail and the name I received. Without his exact wording, I think I would only make things worse for the dealer, and for us. You have my full name and address from my membership..... I'm in the phone book. Call me if you can help me recover the e mail, or want to know anything else.

BTW, it's not a matter of "stones" as MassMark has stated.... it's a matter of my personal integrity. If people can't respect that, than I don't want to discuss it with them anyway.

Benster... I got your PM, and would like to respond, but for the reasons I just stated, I don't feel I can. Sorry I don't know you better, or anything about you.
I'm going to clam up.
 
I spoke to the dealer in question yesterday, and he told me, just as Ripach said, that the AG originally heard of the Glock sales from people posting on this forum as soon as they got home with their guns. He said he was not the first, or the last to call.
So then why was he boasting about getting the AG on them to LenS on Thursday night if they knew already? Sounds like he's backpedaling quick...

and how would he know if more dealers called the AG unless he called AGAIN?
 
dwarven, see, you know who we're talking about. Would it be fair for us to mention his name without his exact words?

I agree with you. He does seem to be telling a different story than what he first told LenS and others (backpeddling as you say). It's not my place to defend him, but it's not my place to destroy him either.

I'm glad people like you and LenS and so many others seem to realize this and are keeping it off the net, where millions of people could see it. This issue didn't hurt a big shop like BPS, but it could destroy a small dealer just trying to get by.

BTW, I wouldn't say he was "boasting" about it.... he was standing up and admitting what he did. There is a difference.
 
Last night the dealer in question sent me an e mail explaining his point of view, and stating that he was not the first or the last to call.

He gave me permission to post his e-mail on this forum on his behalf, as he is not a user or member here.
The ONLY reason I'm not posting his name in public is that unlike you, I didn't have an email, and unlike Len, I didn't hear this weasel saying it in person. So for me that's hearsay... even if I do trust the souces I got it from.

And I'm sorry, but saying "well they were going to find out anyway" doesn't excuse picking up the phone and dropping a dime. This dealer is a big one, and until now, enjoyed a sterling reputation on NES - second only, perhaps, to Carl and Four Seasons. Now? Hope he's got a lot of customers who don't have net access or go to gun shows, because those are probably the only ones who'll be shopping there.

- just saw your post - He's NOT a small dealer - for MA, he's a pretty goodsized shop, I think. I don't normally get down there, so his losing MY business is a non-starter, but he's guaranteed that I won't ever make the effort to stop in again - and yes, I've been there.
 
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The argument that there is no "AG's list" is derived from the
fact that the AG's regs are essentially whatever the given AG
wants them to be at any given moment. They're intentionally
specious and vague as to allow the AG considerable latitude in
terms of how things are defined.

Additionally, you can send informational requests to the AGs office
till you're blue in the face and you will not get a specific response
from them, just some dumb form letter stating that the regs are
being enforced, blah blah blah. At least thats the way it was
under Reilly. I am pretty sure the reason that there is no
official list is because the AG doesn't want to dig himself/herself
into a hole- eg, it wouldn't look very good in court, for example,
if they conceded "officially" on paper that a given gun was
compliant and then reneged on that later on. The way its set
up now they can just play ignorant and say "we weren't completely
aware of this model being sold until recently" or "the AG's office
was aware of this but did not have time to investigate" or any
number of other bullshit excuses. They're gaming the shit
out of the system to their advantage- that's why there's no
formal "list".

Another problem is theres no real way to tell what the AG is
thinking until you get nasty letters in the mail from them (as a
dealer) or similar correspondence. What is legal one day, that
was legal for months, can all of a sudden be "illegal" because
of some stupid peculiarity, etc. When FS (and others?) were
selling glocks again back in (04?) IIRC it went on for well over a
month before the AG stopped everything. I almost think that
was intentional just to make it that much harder for dealers to
comply. EG, let them sell a bunch of guns and then say "UHT!
ZOO are now liable for all of ze guns you sold! 5K apiece
violation! death! off to the pogroms with you! etc. " I
personally think the AG knew about the new glocks being sold
on day 1 but wishy washed over it intentionally to create
extra drama in terms of a violation count. [rolleyes]

The reason there's no real "AG's list" is because the AG's office
is a bunch of scum, that's why.... it's really that simple. [frown]


-Mike

This topic has been discussed to death 150,000 times and this is without a doubt the best and most concise realistic explanation of this clusterf*** I've seen yet.

Kudos and rep point added.

Also congrats on being made a mod!
 
So then why was he boasting about getting the AG on them to LenS on Thursday night if they knew already? Sounds like he's backpedaling quick...

and how would he know if more dealers called the AG unless he called AGAIN?

+1

The dealer is a RAT and now that he is getting shit for it he is scrabbling to get himself out, it is bad enough everyone else is against us but our own people...[thinking] Every now and then a little civil disobedience is a good thing.

I will never step foot in his shop but I will go to BPS say hi to C-pher and spend some money.
 
BPS will have some great sales figures if all of us who are interested in this fuster-cluck stop in to see C-pher and all buy something... LOL

There is a poem I like by Rudyard Kipling that says something about.... "if you can KEEP YOUR HEAD, while those about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."

Well from my point of view.... everyone is looking for someone to blame... and I'm not so sure some of the other sterling dealers in this state didn't do the same thing.

BTW again, I've always enjoyed fuster-clucks that don't get anyone killed. It's like rubber necking at an accident.... the more fuster-clucked it is the more fun to eat popcorn and watch the show.

I'm just an unknown quantity at this point, after over 700 posts, why would anyone listen to me?
 
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C-pher, I do want to thank you for your insights, but I think you should extract yourself from this now, you've done all you can, and I think some people are taking it out on you as if you had some control of this issue. Thanks for your attempt to be rational, it escapes many of our members.

I spoke to the dealer in question yesterday, and he told me, just as Ripach said, that the AG originally heard of the Glock sales from people posting on this forum as soon as they got home with their guns. He said he was not the first, or the last to call. He said he called BPS before the incident, and admitted they kind of sluffed him off and ignored his information.

Sorry but sounds like BS to me...Whether this dealer was the only one, or one of a hundred doesn't matter...he contributed to it. Let the AG do their own filthy legwork. I'll never darken the door of his shop with my presence.


He thanked LenS for doing the best he could for trying to keep the issue mute by monitoring the posts.

If he has no qualms about what he did why does he need anybody on this board to help keep the issue mute for him???

I don't think any of us are served by conducting a witch hunt or a boycott on this or any other dealer for this reason. He competes according to the rules, and deserves fair competition..

Nope sorry...he didn't compete according to the rules...he ratted out a competitor to the AGs office in order to maintain his business.

.
I don't think BPS had any intention of fighting for "OUR" rights... they were just making a mistake. If I thought they did it in our behalf, to support gun rights in Massachusetts, I would make them my primary supplier,.... but they weren't tilting at windmills, they were just doing business...poorly, at first.

The only thing we appear to agree on. No corporation is going to fight for anybody's rights. The issues of reporting BP and what BP intended (or not intended to do) are separate.
 
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"....if you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds worth of distance run....."

Yeah dwarven, that's the one...... IF I only had remembered the title *S* LOLOL
 
Funny how so many of us won't share the name of a vendor who will ship to Massachusetts (if there is one), and yet we're so ready to cut the balls off someone here, because we won't bare our souls to people with 13 posts using an anonymous handle.
 
Funny how so many of us won't share the name of a vendor who will ship to Massachusetts (if there is one), and yet we're so ready to cut the balls off someone here, because we won't bare our souls to people with 13 posts using an anonymous handle.

Thats because you've got a Hogans Heros situation vs. The Departed.
 
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