Baker Follows Feds on Firearm Retailers and Ranges

Well that didn’t age well did it??

Nope. Things are changing as fast as we can type. I just love the fact all these people claim they aren’t going to vote for him so what you are going to sit out the election or just vote for someone far left? You aren’t going to get a ultra conservative voted in this state.

Also I see so many “conservatives” have no issue with the $2,000,000,000,000 bail out. And Trump eroding away at your rights and freedoms.
 
I should think that since most ranges are private property there is no legal standing for the state to close them.

For some reason people keep claiming this but it's not the least bit true. Government regulates private property all the time. Most stores being required to close are on private property. When you put a new roof on your house--on private property--the state makes you pay for a permit. The examples are endless.
 
Here's what I wrote on Healey's official facebook page:

That's like, your personal OPINION. Stick to enforcing the laws as written, and leave your personal opinions at home where they belong. So glad we moved out of MA to avoid tyrants like you.

Licensed gun owners in the Commonwealth are among the most law-abiding constituents of all. Even more so than law enforcement officers.

1. Thank you for writing to the Attorney General on our collective behalf.
2. Please consider NOT fighting her subjective "personal opinions" with your own divisive ones. Her staff is probably enjoying that.

Stay healthy and safe.
 
Not nuts, very smart person with a different value system. We value independence, self reliance, accountability and feel the role of government is that of public service and common defense (against all enemies, foreign, domestic and viral). She views the relation of the individual to government quite differently and the fact tht she considers a MA licensed gun owner a "threat" pretty much says it all.
I think her views on the role of government in our individual lives extends far beyond her incorrect beliefs on the RKBA. She is the omnipotent moral busybody.
 
I can confirm we (Comm2A) are working with them on this. The thing we need now is plaintiffs. Anyone with an LTC/FID without a gun or a LTC/FID and gun with no ammunition.
Guys, I reached out to Adam Kraut. He’s dropping lawsuits on a bunch of states addressing this BS.

He’s asking for potential list of people that have an LTC but don’t have a gun OR have a gun, but no ammo for it.

I have a friend with an LTC and no gun or ammo. I sent him the FPCHotline.Org link but if there are other people he should be in contact with, please PM me and I will try and connect you.
 
For some reason people keep claiming this but it's not the least bit true. Government regulates private property all the time. Most stores being required to close are on private property. When you put a new roof on your house--on private property--the state makes you pay for a permit. The examples are endless.
But a store is open to the public. Most MA clubs are not.
 
Gun shops & shooting ranges undermine the safety of police officers, first responders & domestic violence victims? Wtf kind of logic is that?


Are you daft, man??? How else is a criminal going to get a gun outside of applying for a LTC, waiting the requisite 2-4 months, attend a class, yada yada yada.

I mean, the crims are lining up around the block like people at Krispy Kreme when the light is lit at every police station. All just want to get a gun to shoot police, first reponders and their significant others.
 
But a store is open to the public. Most MA clubs are not.

A statement that has no legal relevance to the order. Even businesses NOT open to the public have been ordered to close, such as non-essential factories. You may disagree with it, but that's the Order and you'd be the lawyer of the century if you can prove the government doesn't have such authority.
 
A statement that has no legal relevance to the order. Even businesses NOT open to the public have been ordered to close, such as non-essential factories. You may disagree with it, but that's the Order and you'd be the lawyer of the century if you can prove the government doesn't has such authority.
Where in the MA constitution does this power exist?
 
A statement that has no legal relevance to the order. Even businesses NOT open to the public have been ordered to close, such as non-essential factories. You may disagree with it, but that's the Order and you'd be the lawyer of the century if you can prove the government doesn't have such authority.
But does the "order" even have ANY legal standing? It is only and advisory, with no punishment.
 
Where in the MA constitution does this power exist?

Again, LEGAL standing. It's kind of like the 07/20/18 hurr durr. Of course, we'll have this licked before it ever gets to court.

Again, read it before asking the easy questions.

The order cites the law which grants the the authority. Read the Order. Are you claiming the MA Constitution doesn't allow the state to create laws? Because that would be a funny thing!

Honestly, you guys can circle jerk all you want about what you believe should happen, and that's great, but I'm just citing the facts as they have been presented.

Let's be clear about what the gov has ordered versus what you want the government to do, because that's two very distinctively different things.
 
The order cites the law which grants the the authority. Read the Order. Are you claiming the MA Constitution doesn't allow the state to create laws? Because that would be a funny thing!

Honestly, you guys can circle jerk all you want about what you believe should happen, and that's great, but I'm just citing the facts as they have been presented.

Let's be clear about what the gov has ordered versus what you want the government to do, because that's two very distinctively different things.

Constitutions give government certain powers, yes. The problem with progressive governments (and progressive thinking) is that almost any power can be granted to government based on convenient and timely interpretation. I am one of those people that believes in enumerated powers being the vehicle to create laws by the legislative branches.

I did read the Mass constitution which is not written for a lay person to understand, and I did not see this power. I could be completely wrong, and as a lay person, often am.
 
I guess that they are serious. They just shut down all BFS & LEOSA training in MA!

 
Waited 22 minutes to get through to Baker's office (I wonder why [angry2])
Girl was nice enough. Oh, well. I had nothing going on today...

Maybe a range trip...

Disobey!
 
And le the ammo hoarding begin!!!! My BIL just texted me he is low on ammo. I told him to find out if Bass Pro Opens tomorrow and to be there early if he wants any.

My guess is there will be a huge run on gun shops and places that sell guns and ammo...
Will be? Have you been under a rock the last month?
Ammo is gone just about everywhere.
 
Did you even read the order? It applies to "all businesses and other organizations". So the order definitely applies to Gun Clubs. However, there are some exempted activities such as those that occur in an "unenclosed, outdoor space."

It says it does not prohibit the gathering of more than 10 people in an unenclosed outdoor space such as a park. My local outdoor range has like 10 benches and is NOT enclosed.
 
1. Thank you for writing to the Attorney General on our collective behalf.
2. Please consider NOT fighting her subjective "personal opinions" with your own divisive ones. Her staff is probably enjoying that.

Stay healthy and safe.

Please don't make me go find one or more of the many studies which have been done which prove (not opinion) that licensed gun owners in America are indeed among the most law-abiding people in the world. Yes, even more so than "law enforcement officers," as a whole.

---------
Edit to add links to a few sites with facts for you:


The results for the first 30 states that passed “shall-issue” laws for concealed carry licenses are similar.


Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry licenses are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime. 22


Fact: People with concealed carry licenses are: 23


  • 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
  • 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public

Fact: Even gun control organizations agree it is a non-problem. One said about Texas, “because there haven’t been Wild West shootouts in the streets”. 24

Fact: Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.


Fact: “I’m detecting that I’m eating a lot of crow on this issue … I think that says something, that we’ve gotten to this point in the year and in the third largest city in America there has not been a single charge against anyone that had anything to do with a concealed handgun.” 25


Fact: In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since late 1987, you are twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator as by a person with a concealed carry permit.





Permit Holders are Extremely Law-abiding
It is very rare for permit holders to violate the law. In order to appreciate how
incredibly rare those problems are, one needs to remember that there are over
12.8 million permit holders in the US. Indeed, it is impossible to think of any
other group in the US that is anywhere near as law-abiding.
To get an idea of just how law-abiding concealed handgun permit holders are, we
need only compare them to police. According to a study in Police Quarterly,
police committed an average of 703 crimes per year from 2005 to 2007.8 113 of
these involved firearms violations. This is likely to be an underestimate, since not
all police crimes receive media coverage. The authors of the study may also have
missed some media reports.
So how law-abiding are police? With about 685,464 full-time police officers in the
U.S. from 2005 to 2007, we find that there were about 103 crimes per hundred
thousand officers. For the U.S. population as a whole, the crime rate was 37
times higher -- 3,813 per hundred thousand people.
Perhaps police crimes are underreported due to leniency from fellow officers, but
the vast crime gap between police and the general populace is really undeniable.
Concealed carry permit holders are even more law-abiding than police. Between
October 1, 1987 and June 30, 2015, Florida revoked 9,999 concealed handgun
permits for misdemeanors or felonies.9 This is an annual revocation rate of 12.8
permits per 100,000. In 2013 (the last year for which data is available), 158 permit
holders were convicted of a felony or misdemeanor – a conviction rate of 22.3 per
100,000.10 Combining the data for Florida and Texas data, we find that permit
holders are convicted of misdemeanors and felonies at less than a sixth the rate
for police officers.
Among police, firearms violations occur at a rate of 16.5 per 100,000 officers.
Among permit holders in Florida and Texas, the rate is only 2.4 per 100,000.10
That is just 1/7th of the rate for police officers. But there's no need to focus on
Texas and Florida — the data are similar in other states.


I have reached out to GOAL to see if they have any sort of crime stats for MA LTC holders. If anyone knows where to find that please let us know.
 
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It says it does not prohibit the gathering of more than 10 people in an unenclosed outdoor space such as a park. My local outdoor range has like 10 benches and is NOT enclosed.

Note that my fourth sentence you quoted addresses these exempted activities.

In legal parlance, we say the order applies to the organization, but the specific activity of people recreating outdoors while maintaining social distancing is exempted. Certain activities like holding club meetings indoors would not generally be exempted though.
 
Note that my fourth sentence you quoted addresses these exempted activities.

In legal parlance, we say the order applies to the organization, but the specific activity of people recreating outdoors while maintaining social distancing is exempted. Certain activities like holding club meetings indoors would not generally be exempted though.
Are you an attorney? I am definitely not picking any fights. I cannot stand when NES beats itself up.
 
Nope. Things are changing as fast as we can type. I just love the fact all these people claim they aren’t going to vote for him so what you are going to sit out the election or just vote for someone far left? You aren’t going to get a ultra conservative voted in this state.

Also I see so many “conservatives” have no issue with the $2,000,000,000,000 bail out. And Trump eroding away at your rights and freedoms.

I would vote for afar left democrat over him (and did in the last election because he sucks!). I would rather see him lose, have a dem for 4 years then get anyone even remotely more “right” than Faker Chuckie Baker.
 
Let's save a lot of bickering about Rino vs Democrat.
Charlie baker was NEVER even remotely Republican.
He ran one on us boys and girls. Myself included.
The man lied through his teeth every step of the way.
He has zero republican or conservative traits whatsoever.
Most likely never did his whole life.
The man is a consummate liar and a straight up sock puppet for Dems in this state.
The man doesn't even piss unless he runs it by Healy or Deleo.

The next time you get the urge to say we need to vote for him just because he has an R after his name on the ballot and just HAS to be better than a D, hit your head forcefully on a hard surface.
 
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