AZ open carry "law"...?

HooVooLoo

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I had been thinking of a comment grant made in an older thread about OC, and he stated that there is no specific statute in any state authorizing open carry, but that it is inferred, like here in MA; It is not specifically denied, but not specifically allowed, either.

Was doing a little research and came across the following...

I heard that once you obtain an Arizona CCW permit, you have to carry concealed all of the time (if armed) and are forbidden to carry in the open. Is this true?
No. You may carry open or concealed.

From the FAQ on the AZ DPS site.

So then I was searching high and low in the AZ general laws for where it specifically states that, and all I could find was...

The following statute, 13.421, paraphrased here.

A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force...

C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force....

D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:

1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.


2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.

So is the above statute the one that legally reinforces the statement on the AZ DPS website? Is that considered, in legal jargon, a defined right to carry openly?
 
Here's a newsflash for you: Laws do NOT codify what is allowed. They codify what is prohibited.

If open carry is not prohibited, then it is legal. No ifs, ands, or buts. You see, we in free states do not GAS what the chief of police thinks as they have no power to deny us anything.

You will not find a "defined right to carry openly" in Arizona law. Open carry is not prohibited. That is enough.

Hell, open carry has been recognized as a right by the supreme court of my state. Ohio got that way when people sued PDs for bogus arrests while openly carrying. The Supreme Court read the Ohio Constitution and ruled for the plaintiff.
 
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I'm not really sure what you are driving at with this thread.

The section of law you highlighted has to do with brandishing in response to a threat, and has nothing to do with merely carrying a gun around on your person in a holster. To me, #2 sounds more like pointing a gun at someone, or showing it to them, or holding it
at low ready, etc.

You don't get it. Open carry is a "GIVEN" in AZ. What you're searching for is something that doesn't exist- you're trying to find a law that say, entitles you to breathe, walk, eat, or drink water. [laugh] When you can find those "laws" let us know.

I'm not sure why, but there is an entire legion of people that seem to be hell bent on finding laws which authorize or validate otherwise "legal by default" behavior. Contrary to popular belief, it's not "common sense" that gun possession is regulated.... it should really be considered an aberration, even in comparison to something like having a license to drive a car.

What you're having trouble comprehending is there are big differences between states where gun ownership is considered a right (eg, AZ and most of free america) and states where it is considered a privilege. The legal mindset in places like MA, NJ, NY, MD, etc, is 180 degrees out of phase with someplace like AZ. They're so far removed from one another legally that there is almost no common ground.

-Mike
 
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You don't get it. Open carry is a "GIVEN" in AZ. What you're searching for is something that doesn't exist- you're trying to find a law that say, entitles you to breathe, walk, eat, or drink water. [laugh] When you can find those "laws" let us know.

I'm not sure why, but there is an entire legion of people that seem to be hell bent on finding laws which authorize or validate otherwise "legal by default" behavior. Contrary to popular belief, it's not "common sense" that gun possession is regulated.... it should really be considered an aberration, even in comparison to something like having a license to drive a car.
-Mike

Exactly. Laws work two ways.

Regarding citizens, they state prohibited behavior. No law needs to be in place to "alllow" you to do an otherwise lawfull behavior/activity.

When your talking about laws referring to government agencies/entities, they explicitly state the powers that they have. If the law doesn't say the agency can do something, then they can't do it.
 
So if the AZ DPS website has a statement posted such as...

I heard that once you obtain an Arizona CCW permit, you have to carry concealed all of the time (if armed) and are forbidden to carry in the open. Is this true?
No. You may carry open or concealed.


It still has no basis in legality, because that same line is not found in the legislative laws?
 
All the DPS is saying is that obtaining a license allows you to conceal (which you cannot do without an AZ CHL), but you do not give up your right to carry openly (which you can do with or without a concealed handgun license).

You are also failing to comprehend the simple fact that the law does not tell you what you may do. It tells you what you many NOT do.

You need to get that concept through your head, or you will forever be wringing your hands.
 
Speaking for Massachusetts only:

I think with a Class B license, you are not allowed to carry concealed, therefore, you MUST carry openly.

In the old days, you always had to have a part of the gun showing, or the police would think you were trying to hide something. I'm pretty sure this was by law.

I have seen people open carrying at least a half dozen times here in Central MA. I am NOT going to dig up the threads for you. Go look them up yourself. The search engine will find it if you put in open carry and my screen name. Please don't suggest any wording about a "test case", as I don't really care, and those half dozen and the handful of cops I have asked about it are good enough for me.
 
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When i was in AZ for sometime in Havasu i saw plenty of people open carrying and everyone went about it like it was an everyday norm, me being from mass i was like wow i cant believe there getting away with it.....being it was Havasu i can see that but OC in Phoenix might be a different story as to how people might react but i haven't been to Phoenix so i cant say...so from what ive seen it seems socially acceptable.
 
...You may carry open...

So this statement does not imply that you have a right to carry openly?

You're missing the point everyone is making above, the laws tell you what you cannot do. If there is no law that says open carry is illegal, it is then legal by the absence of a prohibiting law.

However, as also mentioned, AZ (and the rest of the free states) are very different regarding firearms culture than in MA, so while there is no prohibiting law regarding open carry in MA, it's generally perceived to be a bad idea.
 
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