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AWB & the S&W 15-22
- Thread starter kderby
- Start date
Also lost on the "chief law enforcement officer" of the state . . . the AG!! Sadly she needs to take "remedial Constitutional Law" again!
You notice that there are no change bars, no date stamps on the pages either, so short of printing it out daily, there is no way to keep track of the revisions by viewing the page in print. Plausible deniability??
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Read her latest release. .22 rifles have now become exempt so you can purchase this
http://www.mass.gov/ago/public-safety/guns-that-are-not-assault-weapons.html
http://www.mass.gov/ago/public-safety/guns-that-are-not-assault-weapons.html
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So, now I'm sort of confused. It was at least as clear as muddy water before, but that new link leads me to believe that since the 15-22 was manufactured as a .22, it is now considered "exempt" from being considered a copy, or simply an AW, so that would indicate to me that stocks aren't required to be pinned, correct? Or, does just the fact that it is semi-auto AND has a pistol grip (evil feature) make it somehow an AW, even though it's .22?
oldguy68
NES Member
Hey, we have to thank the AG for removing .22 rimfire rifles from the MA awb laws. LOL
The AG is supposed to enforce laws not remove them from the books!
You just can't make this sh+t up!
Someone needs to make sure she actually went to law school.
Because she sure doesn't follow any at work!!
Till next weeks edition of "How the AG turns words!!".
.17 HMR AR-15's for everyone!
The AG is supposed to enforce laws not remove them from the books!
You just can't make this sh+t up!
Someone needs to make sure she actually went to law school.
Because she sure doesn't follow any at work!!
Till next weeks edition of "How the AG turns words!!".
.17 HMR AR-15's for everyone!
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Asaltweapon
NES Member
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
snax
NES Member
I didn't read all posts, but somebody may have already stated.
Just because the 15-22 doesn't conform to the AG's new definition, adding the features would make it illegal according to the "old" definition (the actual awb law)
Just because the 15-22 doesn't conform to the AG's new definition, adding the features would make it illegal according to the "old" definition (the actual awb law)
snax
NES Member
I also have a problem with the statement "pistol grip", aside from making an AR-15 "pistol", name one actual pistol that an AR-15 grip can bolt onto, therefore it is not a "pistol grip", its a hand grip on a rifle.
Also, related, but not, what is this "high-powered rifle" garbage that the media spews. How do the hell do they know. What constitutes a high-power? 99.9% of the time they don't even communicate the model or caliber of the weapon. I remember reading once in the Lowell Sun that a cop lost is weapon and the writer mentioned it was his "beretta service revolver". This was in the last 15 years, I'm sure beretta has recently produced a revolver suitable for police duty. When is the last time departments had revolvers? 1990?
sorry for the extended rant
Also, related, but not, what is this "high-powered rifle" garbage that the media spews. How do the hell do they know. What constitutes a high-power? 99.9% of the time they don't even communicate the model or caliber of the weapon. I remember reading once in the Lowell Sun that a cop lost is weapon and the writer mentioned it was his "beretta service revolver". This was in the last 15 years, I'm sure beretta has recently produced a revolver suitable for police duty. When is the last time departments had revolvers? 1990?
sorry for the extended rant
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oldguy68
NES Member
I also have a problem with the statement "pistol grip", aside from making an AR-15 "pistol", name one actual pistol that an AR-15 grip can bolt onto, therefore it is not a "pistol grip", its a hand grip on a rifle.
Send the AGO an email asking for clarification!![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Send the AGO an email asking for clarification!
The term "pistol grip" to generically refer to any pistol butt shaped horizontal grip on a firearm/tool/sword/etc has been in general use since the late 19th century. I think they're on pretty solid ground there, at least in terms of definition.
.17 cal isn't .22 cal. Wouldn't that still be "against the FAQ"?
This was the reason I started the thread.
But to the point of several others; the "law by FAQ" thing isn't going to negate some enforcement office from worming their way through the murky language to get the penalty they're looking for.
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babygorilla
NES Member
When the news says "High powered rifle" I think .50 bmg.....not a .223. Anything that can kill a building, is high powered, lol.
If the AGO is incapable of providing concise responses to individuals, wrt to their ad hoc enforcement via web, the responsible thing for the AGO to do would be to eliminate this guidance/FAQ crap altogether. Otherwise, it's nothing more than gross fear mongering.
snax
NES Member
I know that, I was being sarcastic? facetious? These laws are just insanity. How was the 10 round limit decided? Didn't Bill Ruger say something about it once so "they" took it as gospel and said that should be the limit. Stupid.
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When I think "high powered" I think of the gun that the A10 is built around, firing depleted uranium rounds at an ungodly rate
It was pulled out of thin air. Various jurisdictions have tried limitations of 18 round, 15 round, 12 round, 10 round, & 7 round throughout the last 100 years or so. Whatever they thought they could get away with.
Here's an interesting law review of the history of magazine bans, if interested:
http://www.albanylawreview.org/Articles/Vol78_2/78.2.849 Kopel.pdf
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I asked at a LGS because the AG guidance is very clear - "Any .22 caliber rifle" is not an assault weapon.
The answer I got from the LGS is that they are not selling 15-22 *yet*, but some are.
So I expect 15-22's to be back on the shelves everywhere soon.
The answer I got from the LGS is that they are not selling 15-22 *yet*, but some are.
So I expect 15-22's to be back on the shelves everywhere soon.
I disagree. What has changed is that the AGO has introduced an entrapment by estoppel defense as a result of her office screwing around with this FAQ. While I agree that the AWB is still the lawr of the land, she has REALLY muddied the waters by introducing alternate interpretations and guidance that simply doesn't agree with 22 years of precedent. If her guidance were verbal that would be one thing, but she ****ing went out and wrote a FAQ that conflicted with the written lawr. As if that wasn't enough, she then wrote an addendum to the FAQ that directly contradicts both written and case law. At this point the courts HAVE to step in and clear this up because the AWB in MA is currently a class A clusterfk.
Actually that review is incomplete although he does a great job of covering magazine history. The mag limit originated with the 1989 import ban wrt "sporting use". This was also the precursor to the 1994 AWB and contained many of the definitions reused in the 94 & 98 AWB's. The "sporting purposes test" is the basis for all of the AWB's that follow and are why we have an evil features list. One of those features being magazines over 10 rounds.
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This. STUPIDSEC works both ways. Let your enemy take the lead on it. Also, print off copies of the FAQ related to your question before its changed. Not sure if the legality of a printed web page in court, but you're better off with it than without.
-JR
