Avoiding The Solvent Trap Trap - legally owning one to keep for a rainy day

Oh, OK. I didn't read it as that. Well, so long as the solvent trap remains in its un-altered condition I couldn't see a problem with it. "Knock Knock, whos there? ATF, yes Mr. NESr we see you bought a solvent trap, may we see it? Sure. " If its unaltered then no problems, but I'm betting the itch to grab a drill bit might be a bit much for some, and that could get a guy jammed up.
Supposedly, people HAVE been getting visits after buying them, though, and there’s been rumors of charges based on constructive possession.
 
Supposedly, people HAVE been getting visits after buying them, though, and there’s been rumors of charges based on constructive possession.
I understand what your saying. I'm not here to argue what constitutes constructive possession. I would "think" that these guys getting jammed up probably have a trail of behavior that was interesting to one organization or another. Not saying its right or wrong, just speculating what would lead to such interest.
 
I literally want to keep it as a solvent trap.

Not trying to skirt the law.

In the event of a civil war, new laws will be made and then if legal I'll convert it.
 
Supposedly, people HAVE been getting visits after buying them, though, and there’s been rumors of charges based on constructive possession.

Whats weird though is the cites ive seen have said its DHS, not ATF. Which makes me think more like "illegal importation of defense articles" or some
bullshit like that, it might be easier for them to argue that those are "gun parts" under some looser definition of rules defined by customs or the dept of
state or whoever.
 
Who is getting their doors kicked in for buying one of these? I remember the Tiger Tactical mess but to argue constructive possession for one of these is no different from having a parts bin full of AR stuff and happening to have an 80% or post-July stripped lower nearby. If they really want to kick in your door, they will find a way to do so with much less effort.
 
OP's goin' ta jail.

Best thing to do. . . . fill it with solvent. Problem solved.
itsatrap.jpg


steven seagal style
dont-forget-to-bring-a-towel.jpg
godfatherpartii_2.jpg
 
This doesn’t apply to Mass.

And yet another thread on these POS things, like there aren’t enough already. Why not just call the ATF and ask them “Hey Mr Federal Agent Man, I’m in Mass, can I...?

“No.” click

Knock knock. “Who is it?”

“Mr Reptile? Ok, put down the rubber chicken and grab your toothbrush.”

I'm not sure what your point is, but this is the kind of useless "ma sucks" post that just adds uselessness to this site.

There is no reason you can't buy and possess one of these solvent traps in MA. You just can't drill a hole in it.
Yet another reason to get an 07 and a space at the Mill in Littleton and set up shop.
 
Here is the factual reality at this point.

1) thousands of people have purchased these things.
2) nobody has been arrested
3) hundreds have filed ATF Form 1s and registered these as Silencers and the Form 1s are approved.
4) Historically when the ATF has changed its mind on things like that they have
a. confiscated the items
b. allowed people to keep those that were registered.
c. not prosecuted people who purchased these items based on a seller's claims that it was legal.
 
I'm not sure what your point is, but this is the kind of useless "ma sucks" post that just adds uselessness to this site.

There is no reason you can't buy and possess one of these solvent traps in MA. You just can't drill a hole in it.
Yet another reason to get an 07 and a space at the Mill in Littleton and set up shop.

Useless post or even useless site as you apparently think it is, is very subjective here. Without stating it I was hoping to get OP to read between the lines and stop OPENLY posting his desires to skirt federal law and get himself jammed up. I like the OP, he’s quirky, funny, kind, whatever, he’s a decent guy, albeit sometimes not too bright w/regards to opsec and realizing that nothing is secure online and those are exactly the types of posts Feds look for to start jamming people up. It’s not f***ing rocket science when people talk about doing it in a goddamn public forum.

Apparently you didn’t catch that either. Sure you repeated what we all know, that yes, it’s not illegal at all to purchase or own a trap, and in most states you can easily do that, get your tax stamp and you’re fine. Common knowledge.

Openly posting about purchasing these in MA, with the sole intent and stated purpose of using it as a suppressor, but with an added caveat of using it ‘only after the ball drops‘ (paraphrasing here) to make it seem “ok”, would easily be construed as constructive possession and offer enough probable cause for a very uncomfortable visit and depending on what else is laying around that day, a new set of silver bracelets.

TL;DR, I’m trying to keep him from getting jammed up by what he stated being used against him, you just repeated what we all already know.
Useless is again, subjective here.
 
I get your point. I think.

To paraphrase, you don't see any problems with federal law but do see a problem with state law, since you can't make a suppressor legal per MA law.

I get it. Constructive possession comes from the idea that the person has control over an item without actually possessing that item. Its been commonly applied to describe a situation where someone has a complete AR lower and a complete AR upper (often the issue is the upper is pre-ban config).

But the key here is that the person has constructive possession because all he has to do is clip the upper and lower together and he has a functional firearm.

I think where we disagree is whether having an undrilled end cap makes the sum of the parts a silencer or not.

I believe that an undrilled end cap does not make for a complete silencer and constructive possession is not an issue.

You believe that even an undrilled end cap makes for a complete silencer, because drilling a hole is so simple a task.

Is that about right??

Your logic is valid. I guess its just a matter of risk tolerance. At what point is it not a suppressor? If you also have to drill out one baffle? 2 baffles? 5 baffles?

Nobody knows, because it hasn't been litigated.
 
The way I took it when I did mine was to leave it completely unaltered as purchased and delivered until I had an approved Form 1. Once I had said form, the baffle stack and end cap had to be drilled to complete it into the item as described on my Form 1.
 
Constructive possession comes from the idea that the person has control over an item without actually possessing that item.
Dig this, from actual Philadelphia lawyers:


Money graf (in the summary):

Your best bet is to stay away from things that are illegal. ...​


(Although, despite their elite Philadelphia Lawyerhood,
they don't write one jot or tittle about the constructive possession
of storing a contraband assault weapon in a safe,
but keeping the firing pin someplace else -
say a PVC pipe buried in the back yard.

Like storing half of Laura Palmer's Best Friends necklace in a coconut).
 
I get your point. I think.

I think where we disagree is whether having an undrilled end cap makes the sum of the parts a silencer or not.

I believe that an undrilled end cap does not make for a complete silencer and constructive possession is not an issue.

You believe that even an undrilled end cap makes for a complete silencer, because drilling a hole is so simple a task.

Is that about right??

Your logic is valid. I guess its just a matter of risk tolerance.

No, I never said anything about drilling or end caps or what makes it a suppressor, not my point here.

We’re all adults and we all have choices to make. Those choices and any following consequences should be thought out and mitigated with a heavy dose of reality and big picture thinking.

Bottom line is STFU (not you personally, just people in general) and don’t post intentions to violate Federal and State NFA laws on a website that’s known to be monitored by the same people that will be knocking (down?) on your door for posting such stupid shit to begin with.

As you said, “it’s a matter of risk and tolerance”.
It’s not worth the risk, and they won’t tolerate it.

How many stories have we all read about some guy getting jacked and losing everything? Then as we read deeper into the story and find out more about how he got caught, we’re all like ‘Wow! What a f***ing dope! Why did he do that?!” etc etc.

Believe it or not my original post was simply trying to help the OP not get jacked just because he didn’t use any common sense.
 
No, I never said anything about drilling or end caps or what makes it a suppressor, not my point here.

We’re all adults and we all have choices to make. Those choices and any following consequences should be thought out and mitigated with a heavy dose of reality and big picture thinking.

Bottom line is STFU (not you personally, just people in general) and don’t post intentions to violate Federal and State NFA laws on a website that’s known to be monitored by the same people that will be knocking (down?) on your door for posting such stupid shit to begin with.

As you said, “it’s a matter of risk and tolerance”.
It’s not worth the risk, and they won’t tolerate it.

How many stories have we all read about some guy getting jacked and losing everything? Then as we read deeper into the story and find out more about how he got caught, we’re all like ‘Wow! What a f***ing dope! Why did he do that?!” etc etc.

Believe it or not my original post was simply trying to help the OP not get jacked just because he didn’t use any common sense.
I appreciate that!

If I were really going to break the law, I would not have posted about it.

I am very "anal attentive" when it comes to following the law and have paid a premium to stay complaint.

The copsh would be wasting their time by raiding my place.

I am interested in the details of laws and find the nes hive to be very knowledgeable.

Edit:

I meant "anal retentive".

<No Homo>
 
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I appreciate that!

If I were really going to break the law, I would not have posted about it.

I am very "anal attentive" when it comes to following the law and have paid a premium to stay complaint.

The copsh would be wasting their time by raiding my place.

I am interested in the details of laws and find the nes hive to be very knowledgeable.

If that's the case, then I think the consensus is pretty clear.

On a federal level (or if you live in a state that allows silencers) getting an approved form 1 completed prior to buying a kit eliminates any legal risk. There would be no basis for prosecution if you paid the tax and got approval before you even bought the component parts.

However, there is legal risk in MA in just possessing component parts of a silencer.
 
If that's the case, then I think the consensus is pretty clear.

On a federal level (or if you live in a state that allows silencers) getting an approved form 1 completed prior to buying a kit eliminates any legal risk. There would be no basis for prosecution if you paid the tax and got approval before you even bought the component parts.

However, there is legal risk in MA in just possessing component parts of a silencer.
Where is MA law does it say that possessing component parts is illegal?

Section 10A: Selling, giving or using silencers; confiscation and destruction


Section 10A. Any person, other than a federally licensed firearms manufacturer, an authorized agent of the municipal police training committee, or a duly authorized sworn law enforcement officer while acting within the scope of official duties and under the direct authorization of the police chief or his designee, or the colonel of the state police, who sells or keeps for sale, or offers, or gives or disposes of by any means other than submitting to an authorized law enforcement agency, or uses or possesses any instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance for causing the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm to be silent or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than five years in state prison or for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit a federally licensed firearms manufacturer from selling such instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance to authorized law enforcement agencies for law enforcement purposes or to the municipal police training committee for law enforcement training. Upon conviction of a violation of this section, the instrument, attachment or other article shall be confiscated by the commonwealth and forwarded, by the authority of the written order of the court, to the colonel of the state police, who shall destroy said article.



Silencer parts are no more illegal that an oil filter, I would say.

As long as it's not drilled out I would think a person can not be charged.

There is nothing in the law that talked about having the parts alone.

In Mass, a double edge knife (longer than 1.5 inches) is illegal.
Does that mean a single edge knife that the other side which has not been filed down would be illegal?

Even if a person intends to make silencer parts in the future, unless he does - I can't see him being charged with a crime unless he does.


From article:

In the search warrant filed by Massachusetts State Police Trooper Steven Grasso, who is assigned to Healey’s office, the trooper states the federal and local investigators noticed packages containing solvent traps, which are attached to the barrel of a gun and used to catch cleaning fluids, and fuel filters, used for vehicles, were being shipped to the U.S. from China.

Some of those shipments came to Massachusetts. Both items are legal to possess but can be transformed into silencers. YouTube videos and instructional manuals on how to convert the items can be found online in a matter of keystrokes.

 
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