Attempted robbery of choking of a woman, and possible loss of LTC

[kalash]

Sad state of affairs when grown men openly admit that they wouldn't lift a finger to save a woman's life.

I'm not suggesting you waltz into an unknown situation and drill the guy in the temple, but you can at least yell at him to stop and that you're calling the cops or something. Idk, do something at least, don't just walk away as if nothing is happening, someone's life literally depends on it.

 

[kalash]

I think it depends on circumstances and ones own values system etc.

What I do is likely different from most here and so on and so forth.

I can see a lot of cases where I am definitely just walking away. And many others where I might be compelled to do something.

Pretending to assume that everyone should do X or Y is just arrogant.

Definitely situation-dependent. But we know the situation here - the shooter and the victim knew each other well. I'd be far more likely to intervene if, say, my friend was in trouble than if I saw a pimp slapping his hoe around in a dark alley.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I must have missed some training everyone else got concerning what happens when you fire into the dirt. Seems like if you are standing in a golf course that would be pretty straightforward to find a safe place to discharge a warning shot into the ground. Sure there could be a rock just under the surface maybe but a pistol round isn't carrying much energy for very long after that, many of us routinely use backstops that are just littered with rocks.

I'm not saying MA authorities won't make a big deal of it, but the warning shot part likely wasn't a safety issue.

Wait until that 25,000 lawn mower dings a blade on your carelessly-discarded slug and the city sues you for a replacement machine.

I'm sure when the po-po catches some illegal ATV rider in Franklin Park they take the ATV and do a 6 month investigation.

 

[teamRR]

LOL go look at a bunch of legal shit WRT "warning shots". An hour worth of research will make you conclude that an intentional warning shot is a VERY bad idea. If someone decides to have a warning shot, it sure as hell should not be "on the record" as such, if you catch my drift.

You do enough research you will never, ever want to use a "warning shot" ever involving an incident with humans in it.

Best Example- this lady in florida had an abusive husband or something, guy was raging, she had gone out to her car and gotten a gun or something, and then at some point during her altercation with her husband she fired a shot in the air or ceiling or something. Got thrown in jail over it for some stupid amount of time It would have been a much easier sell for her legally if she just shot him.

This is why you don't use "warning shots" kids....

Marissa Alexander case - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, they changed the law, etc. But "Warning Shots" in criminal court systems are as toxic as road rage cases are. It creates an atmosphere of f***ery that you don't want clouding your
defense in court. The moment a judge or jury hears "warning shot" the first thing they're thinking is - "Well, it obviously wasn't grevious, imminent, or serious enough of a threat to justify shooting the guy, so entire thing is bunk" thats the jump to conclusions thing EVERYONES brain goes to. "If person XYZ was a threat that justified deadly force, why didnt warning shot broad just shoot person XYZ?"

My point wasn't about the legality, it was about the chatter that a warning shot was potentially going to hit someone. I am just saying you can physically discharge a pistol on a lawn fairly safely - the legal ramifications, oh who freakin knows - depends what state and the situation.

 

[Garys]

Commonwealth v. Young 95 N.E. 2d 943 (SJC 2012)

An actor is justified in using force against another to protect a third person when (a) a reasonable person in the actor's position would believe his intervention to be necessary for the protection of person, and (b) in the circumstances as that reasonable person would believe them to be, the third person would be justified in using such for to protect himself.

That seems more like an affirmative defense to me, but I'm not a lawyer.

I also recommend that people buy a copy of "The Law of Self Defense" by Andrew Branca. It has a lot of good information. Unsurprisingly, MA is one of the hardest states to use a self defense claim in.

 

[Garys]

A warning shot undermines your claim that you were in fear for your (or a third parties) life.

My point wasn't about the legality, it was about the chatter that a warning shot was potentially going to hit someone. I am just saying you can physically discharge a pistol on a lawn fairly safely - the legal ramifications, oh who freakin knows - depends what state and the situation.

 

[BillyBoy]

 

[TZCHRIS]

So he loses his LTC and wakes up the next and moves to a free state never to return. Oh, and walks in and buys a Sig MCX pistol AR and lives happily ever after.

 

[AHM]

So it took 6 months to "clear" the MGH guy... but people are still alive because of him, and he was cleared. Also, I'd bet that it took about 2 seconds to clear him, and about 6 months for the paperwork to move from desk to desk. Government is government everywhere, after all.

Love to be a fly on the wall while you explain to your commanding officer
that you're under investigation for a felony back in Boston,
and will be for the foreseeable future.

Seems like if you are standing in a golf course that would be pretty straightforward to find a safe place to discharge a warning shot into the ground.

Artist's conception:

Wait until that 25,000 lawn mower dings a blade on your carelessly-discarded slug and the city sues you for a replacement machine.

What's that 21st century medical/police procedural TV show that always started with
really hyped slo-mo X-ray special effects of the victim's death.
Bullet makes a squishing noise as it enters the body,
individual red blood cells stream out of the wound, ...

I'm thinking the mower whips the spent round at somebody's head...

 

[SFC13557]

Channel 4 of all places did a fair report. The woman being attacked was an employee of the Chef who runs the restaurant at the club. He heard her screaming saw her being strangled by the attacker, jumped into a golf cart, yelled at the guy then put one in the dirt. They even aired an interview with a witness who praised the Chef for his quick action. The Chef stated “This is my business, she is my employee and my responsibility. That’s it.”

Good job sir.

I watched that segment and was quite surprised by the positive coverage. Maura might have a hard time f***ing this guy even thou sheeple have no clue firing warning shot into dirt is illegal. For those of you who have never been to Franklin park it's on the edge of Roxbury/Mattapan. I was in a Army Reserve Unit in Roslindale and we used to do out PT test there in the early 90's. We had to notify BPD and they would send over 2 Cops as Security.

 

[Dadstoys]

The only warning shot should be the warning your about to get shot.

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

My understanding

BPD Officers Arrest Suspect on Aggravated Assault Charges Following Response to the Franklin Park Golf Course — bpdnews.com

At about 4:44 PM on Sunday May 9, 2021, officers assigned to District B-2 (Roxbury) arrested Wayne Straw, 38, of Dorchester on charges of Aggravated Assault after responding to a call for shots fired in the area of the Franklin Park Golf Course. On arrival, officers learned that the suspect had

bpdnews.com

I wonder if he’ll lose his LTC, it was issued in Boston you can pretty much kiss it goodbye. A situation like this remind me to always have something also non-lethal.

Be very careful. If that turned out to be his girlfriend she would turn on you on a dime.

I am not doubting your concerns, but the real issue may be carrying outside of restrictions. Wife and I have LTC sporting restrictions and keep our Gen 4 Glock 26 and Glock 19 pistols at home for defense only. Violation of restrictions equals revocation.

 

[Wooderson]

Sad state of affairs when grown men openly admit that they wouldn't lift a finger to save a woman's life.

Is my potential incarceration and removal from my daughter's life worth that of a woman I don't know? My license, contents of my firearm locker, and life are tied to being there to raise and protect the former (her brothers, and my wife)- not the latter. Odds are by acting I will outright lose the first two for a year or more, and if found guilty on a technicality, lose them permanently- along with a decade or more of my involvement with my family.

But hey- I can sleep in my cell every night, not getting to tuck my kids into bed, knowing random person is fine, right?

I didn't make the laws. I didn't vote for Healey. Both are actively structured against my involvement, and more than willing to pound me in the proverbial ass, and toss me in genpop for a pounding in the literal ass. If choosing not to make that trade in this environment makes me a bad person in your, or anyone else's worldview, you'll pardon me when I don't give a damn.

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

The witness voluntarily turned over his firearm and License to Carry a Firearm on scene as this investigation remains active and ongoing.

Which means his trap/skeet shotgun, his JC Higgins bolt action .22 and the totally FUDD 12 gauge SBS that he inherited from long-deceased Gramps will also be confiscated when the cops raid his home.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Which means his trap/skeet shotgun, his JC Higgins bolt action .22 and the totally FUDD 12 gauge SBS that he inherited from long-deceased Gramps will also be confiscated when the cops raid his home.

When they raid his home let us know.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

View attachment 481744

No the please stop approach.

View: https://youtu.be/nU5cMZymSr0

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

When they raid his home let us know.

His LTC, like the ones my wife and I, have the address printed on the front, just below the mugshot. Wouldn't take New Scotland Yard detectives or Sherlock Holmes to figure out which guns are in which house on which street. That is the whole purpose of licensing!

 

[Chevy 2 65]

His LTC, like the ones my wife and I, have the address printed on the front, just below the mugshot. Wouldn't take New Scotland Yard detectives or Sherlock Holmes to figure out which guns are in which house on which street. That is the whole purpose of licensing!

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

View attachment 481853

Glad you agree. Whole purpose of licensing. Find out where the guns are so you can grab them. Castro used Batista's licensing scheme to confiscate registered firearms after the "Maximum Leader" consolidated his control on that country.

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

When they raid his home let us know.

I am sure the investigating PD will notify the LTC issuing PD of their LE "encounter". Cops are not your friends!

 

[Chevy 2 65]

I am sure the investigating PD will notify the LTC issuing PD of their LE "encounter". Cops are not your friends

Yes, I know thank you.


View: https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

 

[garandman]

I wonder if he’ll lose his LTC, it was issued in Boston you can pretty much kiss it goodbye. A situation like this remind me to always have something also non-lethal.

Want to bet?

 

[Dadstoys]

No the please stop approach.

View: https://youtu.be/nU5cMZymSr0

Good Lord .
I was hoping the bear would eat her just to shut her up.

 

[AHM]

Good Lord .
I was hoping the bear would eat her just to shut her up.

...said pretty much everyone who's ever seen that.

 

[Toast]

No the please stop approach.

View: https://youtu.be/nU5cMZymSr0

So at the start of the video, after the bear had left her kayak alone and was walking away from it, she decided to spray the bear in the face. Said spraying was very effective in turning the bear around and sending it back to her kayak.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Is my potential incarceration and removal from my daughter's life worth that of a woman I don't know? My license, contents of my firearm locker, and life are tied to being there to raise and protect the former (her brothers, and my wife)- not the latter. Odds are by acting I will outright lose the first two for a year or more, and if found guilty on a technicality, lose them permanently- along with a decade or more of my involvement with my family.

But hey- I can sleep in my cell every night, not getting to tuck my kids into bed, knowing random person is fine, right?

I didn't make the laws. I didn't vote for Healey. Both are actively structured against my involvement, and more than willing to pound me in the proverbial ass, and toss me in genpop for a pounding in the literal ass. If choosing not to make that trade in this environment makes me a bad person in your, or anyone else's worldview, you'll pardon me when I don't give a damn.

Lifting a finger does NOT necessarily mean pulling your Roscoe. It might mean just confronting the d-bag. MAYBE it'll come to you getting the gun out. But are you really gonna Kitty Genovese it???

 

[Wooderson]

Lifting a finger does NOT necessarily mean pulling your Roscoe. It might mean just confronting the d-bag. MAYBE it'll come to you getting the gun out. But are you really gonna Kitty Genovese it???

The quote regarding "lifting a finger" implied direct involvement in the altercation. I don't have a problem making a call, but under the legal expectation of commensurate response- the perpetrator is choking the victim; that, under the standard of any reasonable person, is attempted murder. But it's not such standard under the law and a coddling DA- who is more apt to target me with bonus charges for moving into the fray than the actual assailant, merely because I'm holding.

Like I said- I didn't make the rules. Societies that don't want innocents harmed in the heat of the moment structure their laws to allow reasonable response by the general public without reprisal. We do not live in such a society in this state.

 

[crazymjb]

The quote regarding "lifting a finger" implied direct involvement in the altercation. I don't have a problem making a call, but under the legal expectation of commensurate response- the perpetrator is choking the victim; that, under the standard of any reasonable person, is attempted murder. But it's not such standard under the law and a coddling DA- who is more apt to target me with bonus charges for moving into the fray than the actual assailant, merely because I'm holding.

Like I said- I didn't make the rules. Societies that don't want innocents harmed in the heat of the moment structure their laws to allow reasonable response by the general public without reprisal. We do not live in such a society in this state.

Granted, I have been out of law school for a few years and my current occupation has decidedly zero to do with the practice of law, but I recall jury instructions for self-defense (and the defense of others) to be pretty clear in this state.

 

[AHM]

Granted, I have been out of law school for a few years and my current occupation has decidedly zero to do with the practice of law, but I recall jury instructions for self-defense (and the defense of others) to be pretty clear in this state.

If your freedom in the wake of a cut-and-dried lethal force self-defense incidence
has reached the point where you're depending upon a jury to follow instructions;
to follow instructions in a way which transcends all of the lies necessarily
told by prosecutors in order to keep the judge from dismissing the case outright;
you've already made a $100,000+ mistake.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

That BPD announcement looked like it was designed to clear him -

- Specific mention that the warning shot was fired safely and not a danger to others (closing the door on that avenue of persecution)
- Referring to him as the "Witness"
- Keeping his name out of the release as a witness to a crime, not a perp
- Not arresting him on the spot and letting the courts sort it out later
- Characterizing his surrender of the LTC and gun as "voluntary" even though we know that it really wasn't
- Not filing charges for discharge within 150ft or a roadway or 500ft of an occupied structure

I can't see a much better setup for the individual going forward. The system probably wants to avoid any press about "legally armed citizen rescues damsel in distress", which would certainly happen if they prosecuted him.