JFC the fought two cops, punched them, grabbed one of their tazers, while running away he turns and tries to shoot the closest cop in pursuit and gets shot himself.
This literally is text book, "How to suicide by Cop"
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Atlanta Police Fatally Shoot Black Man in the Back at Wendy's Drive-Thru
- Thread starter Reptile
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This literally is text book, "How to suicide by Cop"
So he tazes the cop who is carrying gun, how do you think this one plays out? Cop hits the deck, the gun slides towards the perps feet, perp then engages the 2nd cop with the firearm.
Seriously, I can't believe you're defending a guy who punched two cops, stole their tazer, then tried to shoot them with it.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
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Bingo!So he tazes the cop who is carrying gun, how do you think this one plays out? Cop hits the deck, the gun slides towards the perps feet, perp then engages the 2nd cop with the firearm.
Seriously, I can't believe you're defending a guy who punched two cops, stole their tazer, then tried to shoot them with it.
Perhaps, though I haven’t read anything about that yet. Regardless, I’m sure they’d prefer him blocking their driveway over having a homicide in the parking lot and their business burnt out.
True but that was resolved peacefully/amicably by the original responding officer who woke the sleepy driver up and asked him to pull into a space....and Wendy's drive thru continued......
Things didnt come off the rails until officer #2 showed up
So he should have just tazed him while still behind the wheel of the car right?
Taze him until he pisses/shits himself cuz then he'll have trouble trying to run away with a load in his pants.....and the canine unit will have an easier time tracking him down with that odiferous load in his pants.
Sorry for the sarcasm.....I'm not trying to suggest you would think thats reasonable.....
The guy committed an "ADMINISTRATIVE" crime and you're gonna try to forcefully cuff him to accomplish what exactly?
The dude was 150% reasonable and compliant right until the cop became the agressor and tried to force cuffs on him
They've got his car
They've got his ID
They've already run it and there's no indication that the dude has warrents/long record
How about telling the guy that they need to work it out at the station and they're going to go for a ride together
How much worse could it POSSIBLY go?......if he runs then so f***ing what......the cops have his car and ID
Instead they turn ON the conflict and initiate force/end up on the ground with him on video and he ends up grabbing a tazer and running......couldnt have gone much worse
In point of fact it would have been a MUCH better situation if they tried to be civil, he refused and ran........like I said....they have his car, ID etc.....how f***ing far is the guy gonna get?
headednorth
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They were civil. The guy turned on the conflict and initiated force.
I KNOW its not going to be 100% effective.....but as we've all seen over and over and over they current police escalation of force isnt working
So maybe the police need to consider a different set of protocols
The dude was totally reasonable right up until the moment that the officer started to cuff him then he went into fight/flight mode.....cuz alcohol and any number of reasons
There's a time and place for initiating force.....in this instance the dude demonstrated that talking worked.....so why not continue to try to talk thru the next steps instead of forcing cuff on him for a fooking administrative "crime"
SFC13557
NES Member
I did, I repeat the cop was too nice. They NEVER should have asked him to move his car if they suspected he was impaired. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen if he took off and injured/killed someone. He should have been cuffed during their initial interrogation. Since the Cops have all the power it's YOUR job to make sure You don't escalate the situation, not he Cops.
And imho this is why the situation/conflict between the public and popo exists
Not popo's fault that they've been sued in past for being reasonable
Not popo's fault they're told to enforce stupid laws
At the same time there are waaay too many police that use force where none is required
there are also tons of police that initiate contacts over dumb shit or total fishing expeditions where they never should have in the first place
I get that there are tons of shitty things about the job and lots of impossible situations and maybe this was one of them........but these should be the exception rather than occupying headlines/public conciousness for the last couple decades
Police and their chiefs/bosses (and politicians) have had DECADES to address this shit on their own schedule/terms.......now that decision is being taken from popo because a significant portion of the population is fed up to the point where they cant be reasoned with
SpaceCritter
NES Member
By your logic, you should NEVER, EVER call 911 for anything, as there could be some sort of unforeseen (and infinitesimally probable) bad outcome.
That runs counter to the policies of 99.999% of businesses in this country, not to mention common sense.
headednorth
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For one, its not really a conflict between the public and the popo. Its a conflict between a fairly small (ahem)...demographic and the popo. Also these situations ARE the exception, although the media likes to stoke the fire by making it sound like a certain...demographic cant poke their head outside their front door without being murdered by a cop. I mean really, these days some...groups of people can hardly manage to get high, rob a store, beat the shit out of someone, fight with the cops, etc without there being (gasp) negative consequences.
So he tazes the cop who is carrying gun, how do you think this one plays out? Cop hits the deck, the gun slides towards the perps feet, perp then engages the 2nd cop with the firearm.
Seriously, I can't believe you're defending a guy who punched two cops, stole their tazer, then tried to shoot them with it.
It's fun to play 'what if' but the guys dead, the cops already been fired, and the COP resigned before the dude was cold. I'm not defending him, sure, PSGWSP, don't drink and drive, all of the above, but are you really calling this a clean shoot? He's too drunk to drive but is going to land taser shots while running in the opposite direction? Nope, because he did shoot the taser at the cop. However, it obviously didn't land because the cop then pulls his gun and shoots him, he surprisingly didn't hit the deck and his gun didn't miraculously slide towards the perp.
The police have ALL the power in this situation. They are trained, competent, and sober. He is none of those things.
I would prefer if the cops (who represent me) understand that dynamic and find a way to avoid killing him. That's all I'm saying. And I don't think that's outside the realm of reality: I'd imagine there are dozens of roughly similar interactions all around the country every day that fail to produce a corpse. So clearly it's possible.
I would prefer if the cops (who represent me) understand that dynamic and find a way to avoid killing him. That's all I'm saying. And I don't think that's outside the realm of reality: I'd imagine there are dozens of roughly similar interactions all around the country every day that fail to produce a corpse. So clearly it's possible.
SFC13557
NES Member
Cops use force to protect themselves and the public. If you're going to second guess every Cops decision you undermine their authority and their ability to think during a violent situation. Some Black lawyer is on FOX now claiming the Cops could have called the perp an Uber and tazer was not a deadly weapon. It is when you steal it from a cops belt and then try to use it on the Cop. PD issued a statement that all procedures were properly followed. Really, then why was the Cop fired?
I would expect to be shot if I pulled what this clown did
When people feel the need to justify the actions based on something that didn't happen, it's because what happened isn't as cut and dry as they want to make it out to be.
He didn't effectively tase the cop.
The cop didn't fall to the ground.
His gun didn't slide away.
The guy didn't then go and pick up the gun.
The guy then didn't try to shoot someone with it.
None of those things happened. That's a fictional scenario that didn't occur and not rooted in reality. If we are going to justify the actions of someone based on a hypothetical scenario that didn't occur, it must be applied equally the other way.
The cops handcuff him.
He is then taken to the ground.
The cops have him on his stomach with them on top of him.
The cops then restrain him with a choke hold or knee to his neck.
They do this until he is dead.
Because that could have occurred, he was therefore justified in trying to prevent them from cuffing him.
See how this works? If anything, because a guy in handcuffs has virtually no ability to defend himself if the cops try and hurt him, he would be more justified then the cop who shot him, seeing as that cop does have the ability to defend himself and his partner at every single step of your scenario. But I digress. Because justifying one's actions based on a fictional scenario that didn't happen and wasn't happening is absurd.
Seriously, I can't believe you're defending a guy who punched two cops, stole their tazer, then tried to shoot them with it.
There's a substantial difference in defending the guy who got shot and not defending the cop who shot him.
Why do people always do this? Anytime there is a police encounter where the person does something wrong, people go, "aha, gotcha!", therefore anything the cops do after is justified. It's possible for both people do have acted unjustly.
Everything aggressive he did was in an attempt to escape from them. The very first thing he tried to do was not fight them, it was to run away. When they stopped him from trying to run away, he then only fought them to again try and escape and run away. And then when he tried to tase the cop, it was to try and escape while he was still running away. This is not at all a textbook "suicide by cop". In fact, the whole "suicide by cop" classification is nothing more than an easy way to justify police shootings without having to really look into them. In any case, a guy trying to escape police doesn't even fit this overly broad classification.
SFC13557
NES Member
"Why do people always do this? Anytime there is a police encounter with the person does something wrong, people go, "aha, gotcha!", therefore anything the cops do after is justified. It's possible for both people do have acted unjustly."
Because we were all taught to cooperate with the Police, if not bad things will happen to you. Cops have to anticipate situations and putting a potential suspect in cuffs is SOP both for the safety of the suspect and the Cop. If the perp had been cuffed immediately he would still be alive. If you don't want to interact with the local PD don't commit crimes, drink and drive etc. As LTC holders we all are hyper aware of avoiding interacting with Cops unless on a friendly encounter.
Because we were all taught to cooperate with the Police, if not bad things will happen to you. Cops have to anticipate situations and putting a potential suspect in cuffs is SOP both for the safety of the suspect and the Cop. If the perp had been cuffed immediately he would still be alive. If you don't want to interact with the local PD don't commit crimes, drink and drive etc. As LTC holders we all are hyper aware of avoiding interacting with Cops unless on a friendly encounter.
Horseshite
Disagree. He was fleeing. That is not suicidal.
So he tazes the cop who is carrying gun, how do you think this one plays out? Cop hits the deck, the gun slides towards the perps feet, perp then engages the 2nd cop with the firearm.
Seriously, I can't believe you're defending a guy who punched two cops, stole their tazer, then tried to shoot them with it.
I agree everything the suspect did was wrong. But none of his offenses justify a death sentence. These were cops who did not manage the situation well, and we need cops to be better trained.
It is our duty to second guess everything a cop does. I do not care if they are paranoid or feel undermined. Civil liberties and contitutional rights are so much more important than a cop feeling undermined. Theres a dead perp here, and you dont want to second guess the cops? That is insane.
Note, too, that when the cop fires, his only backstop is a white SUV full of people waiting in line to pick up their fast food.
That sort of judgement isn't all that wonderful, either. I'm puzzled why they didn't simply chase him down. Sure, he's got a tazer, but so do they. And there are two of them.
That sort of judgement isn't all that wonderful, either. I'm puzzled why they didn't simply chase him down. Sure, he's got a tazer, but so do they. And there are two of them.
SFC13557
NES Member
He didn't just run away, he stole a Cops tazer and turned and fired it at him. The perp initiated the violent encounter with the Cop and paid the ultimate price for a stupid decision. One more time, don't run from the Cops, don't fight with a Cop, don't resist arrest and you can take your case to court. Do any of the previously mentioned actions and all bets are off.
Many yes ago stationed at FT.Devens and lived across from Gervais Ford. Decide to do a 10 miles road march. Packed my ruck, put on BDU's, tucked Glock inside waistband and headed out back gate. Walked on back road and came out on 2A next to shitbag trailer park. Head back towards Devens and out of the corner of my eye see this German Shepard bolt out of a trailer and head straight for me snarling and barking. He goes right for my lower legs and I'm kicking him and trying to drop my ruck so I don't go over backwards and allow Shepard to rip my throat out. I almost got hit by a car as I'm dancing and kicking the dog and trying to drop the ruck. Finally some bitch opens the door of the trailer and calls the dog back. I have bite marks on my boots and the dog finally retreats. I yell at the bitch if the dog ever attacks me I'll shoot it. Pick up my ruck and head towards Devens. 5 minutes later I hear sirens and see 2 Ayer PD cruisers heading towards me. They block traffic and 2 cops get out, level their pistols at me and tell me to turn around and walk backwards toward them. I tell them I need to drop ruck and they say no way, keep walking backwards. I get to the first cruiser and 2 more pull up completely blocking 2A. Now there are 4 cops with pistols and shotguns drawn down on my. I get to the cruiser and first cop tells me keep hands in air and he comes around and slams me onto hood of cruiser and cuffs me. He asks me where the gun is and I tell him. He's trying to get the Glock with my ruck on and now I'm worrying he'll shoot me by accident while disarming me. He finally gets the Glock, clears it and asks me what happened and asks for my LTC. I tell him where my wallet is and he takes it and goes back to cruiser. I'm still face down on the hood of his cruiser with a 55 lb ruck on. after 10 minutes he comes back and takes cuffs off, allows me to drop ruck, checks out my boots and tells the other cops to leave. Potential serious situation diffused because I did what I was told to do. I told him we eed to go back to trailer park but he tells me it's in Littleton and he can't do shit to the owners. Lesson learned
Well reasoned argument. You've convinced me!
The Counted: are US police hiding behind 'suicide by cop' shootings?
Fatal shootings by police around the US are being ruled suicides. Are officers avoiding scrutiny, or just being used as weapons?
www.theguardian.com
Suicide by cop: What motivates those who choose this method?
Mr. Z, age 25, an unemployed immigrant from Eastern Europe, is found unresponsive at a subway station. Workup in the emergency room reveals a positive urine toxicology for benzodiazepines...
Suicide By Cop
Well wouldn't you know, there's significant discussion and debate about this very thing. No matter, your intelligent one word response is the most convincing.
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