Athol Appleseed after action report & pics.

[Twigg]

The Redcoats are coming !
Take note of the target on the right, I believe heard Chris say this is the first Redcoat target to have been cleaned in an Appleseed.

For those who don't know, the silhouettes represent targets at 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards while the red square simulates a head shot at 250 yards.

Now that's some fancy shootin' ! (And why we don't speak with British accents. - Apologies to our resident Britt's.)

The firing line.

Making Rifleman is significant to me because when I served my country as a Seabee (USNMBC – 40, Alpha Co.) it was during the Ford and Carter administrations. For those of you old enough to remember, this was not a good time to be in the military. The Vietnam Conflict was winding down and folks in uniform were not popular with the American public. I have suffered abuse (proudly and defiantly) from those I thought were friends when I enlisted and from the public when I was traveling under orders in uniform.

The Navy was not awarding medals unless your performance truly outstanding. I was issued the National Defense medal which was derisively called a “geedunk medal” as every warm body entering the service was issued one. Medals for marksmanship were issued only to those who qualified at the expert level.

Thus began my quest.

I missed the first year by thirty points, the second year I was with the battalion I volunteered for a work detail at the Point Mugu rifle range. This was a detail normally assigned to screw-ups and those with discipline issues. I had spoken to my platoon Chief and to the Marine First Sergeant (Every Seabee battalion has a senior Marine NCO as a tactical advisor.) about my intentions and had the approval of both. So for the next two months I filled and stacked sandbags for six hours a day, ate C-rats (cold) and got in some additional trigger time in the afternoon with whatever unit was on the line.

I qualified as Sharpshooter but missed expert by 15 points.

In my third and last year I missed expert by three points and what really irked me is had shot expert in practice and choked during the last qualification round I would fire and remained a Sharpshooter for my final year with NMCB-40.

The only consolation was that during my stay with NMCB-40, my battalion had achieved the Navy “Battle E” award twice in two years. Each year that same First Sergeant gave us the highest compliment a Marine can give.

He said he would be proud to go to war with us.

Fast forward to twenty seven years later while watching some hunting show with my son he turns and asks me to take him hunting and eventually I find out about the Appleseed Project.

I attended several Appleseed clinics over the course of the last two years and on Saturday of this Independence Day weekend thanks to the level of instruction I received from Chris and Dan. Achieving RIFLEMAN status was work and it was not something I took lightly.

I am as proud of my RIFLEMAN patch as I would be as if I had earned my Expert Qualification while I was in the Navy.

Next time you see me at an Appleseed event I'll be wearing an orange hat. (Instructor in training.)



To everyone who came out to shoot and also to Chris and Dan for their instructing, I say,

Thanks and a Tip O'the Stetson™

 

[Another_David]

Congratulations to you fine sir and thank you for your service both then and now!

I need to get a sling and a couple other things but do want to join an Appleseed shoot sometime soon.

 

[crak]

Great pics!

Dan was the one who said it was the first cleaned redcoat he'd seen. There was a guy named Sugarpie in Florida that walked in and did it on his first try last month. And I've seen cleaned ones before then too.

 

[Twigg]

Congratulations to you fine sir and thank you for your service both then and now!

I need to get a sling and a couple other things but do want to join an Appleseed shoot sometime soon.

We can arrainge that !

Great pics!

Dan was the one who said it was the first cleaned redcoat he'd seen. There was a guy named Sugarpie in Florida that walked in and did it on his first try last month. And I've seen cleaned ones before then too.

Was it one of your brothers who shot that one ?

 

[crak]

Yes, that was my brother's. But you'll notice that he can only do that on a target where he doesn't have to move left/right because he freely admits he wants no part of the sling and doesn't get NPOA. When he does (and he will), he'll get a rifleman score on the whole thing.

David, we had at least one extra loaner rifle (with sling) sitting around on both days last weekend.

 

[matt]

Dennis,

That's awsome!! Good for you man!

So you're now the official instructor for Winchendon shoots!

Matt

 

[Twigg]

Dennis,

That's awsome!! Good for you man!

So you're now the official instructor for Winchendon shoots!

Matt

Happy to help ! I'm already signed up as an Instructor-In-Training for the Bennigton (Aug 16 & 17) and Proctor Sept 27 & 28) shoots in Vermont

Wanna try and get an full Appleseed going at WR&G for the Fall ?

That'd get me my Red Hat.

 

[matt]

The club is up for it.

September or October?

 

[Twigg]

The club is up for it.

September or October?

I was thinking October. September has the car shoot and the Proctor, Vt Appleseed.

 

[matt]

I was thinking we could accomodate camping in the field and bring in some porta-potties. Not that I've given it any thought... BBQ in the evenings under the shelter. Could be good...

October gives a little more time to get attendance up too.

 

[crak]

Try for Columbus Day weekend. I'll be there if you get it. The rest of october's pretty full for me, but maybe we'll have enough instructors to cover by then.

When is the soonest you can find out?

 

[matt]

I can work on finding out by next week.

Is the camping a good idea?

 

[Jose]

I noticed that most of the shooters did not have slings on their rifles, even though they are capable of accepting them.

Why?

It makes position shooting so much easier.

 

[JonJ]

I just noticed that now that you mentioned it.
Appleseed teaches and stresses proper sling usage. I wonder if some of the shooters just hadn't gotten around to getting a sling?

 

[Twigg]

I noticed that most of the shooters did not have slings on their rifles, even though they are capable of accepting them.

Why?

It makes position shooting so much easier.

IIRC two folks were using loaner rifles and we haden't yet put the slings on and one fellow just didn't like (and wouldn't use) slings.

By the end of the day all but one were using slings and the difference in groupings was significant.

 

[Jose]

one fellow just didn't like (and wouldn't use) slings.

I always get a chucle out of those guys. It doesn't take long to figure out how wrong they are when everyone else is cleaning their clock.

 

[Admin]

I always get a chucle out of those guys. It doesn't take long to figure out how wrong they are when everyone else is cleaning their clock.

+1 Or being a range coach as a Corporal and trying to tactfully show a Master SGT what he is doing wrong...

MSGT: "Boy I've been in the Corps longer than you've been alive..."

Well he qualifies as the lowly marksman, aka Pizza Box, which is the Marines IMO is pretty embarrasing.

I would go down to the PX on Thursday night and buy a few Expert Rifle badges for the guys I was coaching that week. I only handed out Expert on Friday to the guys who made it, if you didn't make expert you weren't getting a free sharpshooter, or marksman badge from me. I took pride in teaching Marines how to effectively put lead on target from great distances. That night I bought one lowly marksman pizza box badge.

Me: "Here you go MSGT, this is the first time I've ever been happy one of my Marines qualified marksman..."



I thought Chief Warrant Officer Vasallo was going to piss himself. Which is probably why the MSGT didn't say or do anything to me.

 

[crak]

I can work on finding out by next week.

Is the camping a good idea?

Camping's a good idea for people who like to camp. RWVA will pay for the port-a-potty (we'll definitely get at least one if there's no bathroom around.)

Those pictures must've been really early in the day, because all but one of those guys was using the sling correctly by the second or third string.

 

[DickWanner]

I always get a chucle out of those guys. It doesn't take long to figure out how wrong they are when everyone else is cleaning their clock.

That was me. I couldn't get comfortable with the 10/22 as it was extremely short and not what I was used to. I couldn't get the sling adjusted right and it was making me shoot worse than not using it. I didn't post the high score of the day, but then again I've never fired a 10/22 in my life before. Give me an M16/AR-15 and I would have whooped ass on everyone else there hands down.

You just love insulting people don't you? How about you get the facts first before you start MMQBing me.

 

[Nickle]

You make it Colombus Day weekend, and I'll do my damndest to make it down there. Other than Guard Drill, I have a fairly open slate for October.

I'll bring down my .22 loaners, currently have 8 of them.

4 - 10/22 w/ Tech Sights
2 - 10/22 scoped
1 - Rem 513T target rifle w/ Redfield Olympic sights
1 - Win 190 scoped

All have slings, all have 40 round worth of mags with them, except the Win 190 (tube mag).

You bring your own ammo, and Federal (or Winchester) bulk from Wal-Mart works well enough.

The 10/22's and the 513T have all been used to make Riflemen.

 

[crak]

Nick, I think he was chuckling more at my brother's story, who was outright refusing even on his own rifle for a while. (I'll fix him yet)

 

[DickWanner]

Nick, I think he was chuckling more at my brother's story, who was outright refusing even on his own rifle for a while. (I'll fix him yet)

I hope so, it's not a very nice thing to tell someone they are wrong at something without having a firsthand account. I don't claim to be an expert marksman, but to flat out tell me that I am wrong at shooting a rifle is pretty insulting and I'm not gonna lie that I felt insulted by the comment.

 

[jar]

Thanks again to Crak, MrTwigg, and Dan. My order of targets from Fred came in today. I shot a practice AQT target (2 each stages 2-4), then shot one quick and dirty AQT. When I scored it, I got 210 exactly. This was only taking what I thought were definite 30 cal rules. Ignoring 30 cal rule, it'd be a 205. I think the correct score may be higher as there were some I didn't take that i think would plug, including a miss to a 3 in stage 4.

It's amazing what good instruction reinforced through dry fire will do. I was having a rough time at this appleseed, with no scores worth writing home about. I've been getting into position and dry firing every other day or so since the shoot. Today was the first live ammo I put through the rifle since the appleseed, and I saw massive improvement.

Now I just need to do it on the clock with people watching, and I too can get one of those cool orange hats.

 

[Nickle]

Now I just need to do it on the clock with people watching, and I too can get one of those cool orange hats.

Need to have 2 Appleseeds (not mini's) under your belt, plus have shot Rifleman (preferably at one of them).

You do that, and crak and I have an Orange Hat with your name on it, for a short while, until you work your way into a Red Hat, and even a Green Shoot Boss hat.

Or, have an Appleseed under your belt, and have shot Rifleman, and attend an Instructor Boot Camp.

Yup, they're invite only, but what is stated above is all it takes to get an invite.

 

[jar]

Yeah, I'd want to have another appleseed under my belt before thinking about instructing anyway. I've been to 1.5 so far, Harvard and Sunday at Athol. Also, I'd like to shoot rifleman with both an LTR and a centerfire rifle. I've proven to myself I can do it with an LTR, now I really can't wait for the NES ARs or my CMP Garand to come in. I'm hoping to make it to another Appleseed this summer/fall. Unfortunately I'm busy this weekend, but I'm still half thinking about blowing off my plans to go to Jericho. I'll be out west Columbus day weekend and the weekend after, but I'm hoping to make Bennington on Proctor.

 

[Twigg]

I'm hoping to make it to another Appleseed this summer/fall. ...but I'm hoping to make Bennington on Proctor.

Stay tumed.. We might be having a full 2 day Appleseed at Winchendon, if that falls through, there's always Woodsman.

I'd really like to see it happen at Winchendon on a nice grassy field instead of sand, sand, sand.

Hope to see you at Bennington or Proctor, I'll be at both as an Instructor In Training.

 

[Nickle]

I'd really like to see it happen at Winchendon on a nice grassy field instead of sand, sand, sand.

Hope to see you at Bennington or Proctor, I'll be at both as an Instructor In Training.

You're going to LOVE Proctor. Nice grassy firing line. Jericho is grass, too.

 

[dwarven1]

David, we had at least one extra loaner rifle (with sling) sitting around on both days last weekend.

Speaking of which, Chris... can I have my rifles back now?

 

[Tiktock]

Good shooting jackets (or anything but teeshirts) will skyrocket those scores. Its nearly impossible to properly use a position sling in prone without a secure anchor for the sling to attach to. Do these appleseeds focus more on military sling use than NRA qualification style slings that attach at the bicep of the left arm? When done properly, it should be REALLY tight across the board, usually requiring a shooting glove to make it even remotely comfortable where the sling crosses the wrist/hand. Most ranked 4-pos guys I shot with would have numb hands and deep impressions from their slings after prone. Trying to learn precision shooting from prone without a sling will only get you so far before its an effort in diminished returns. You can learn breath control and trigger control and basic positioning, but those who are using slings properly will be able to put it all together and be on their way.

That being said, its extremely difficult to get really good at prone without a gun that fits you and repetition of using that same gun through thousands of rounds until it becomes a mechanical act. There is no one who cannot become a good prone shooter. About 1/4 the sub-18 year olds on my team could shoot 100s with 3-5X on a A-36 target by the time they had a few years under their belt, which equates to hitting a pinhead 10/10 times at 50 feet and single-hole groups at 50 yards....it just takes dedication and practice.

 

[Chris]

The goal of the Appleseed is to take:

Rack Grade rifle
Surplus ammo

and achieve:

4 MOA hits out to 500 yards

To do that, you don't need much more than a military sling (web sling) and good form.

I use a cheap USMC shooting jacket so that I have built in arm pads, and a pad on my upper arm to keep the sling in place.

IF a shooter meets the goals of the Appleseed, they have all the fundamentals to go and make equipment changes to tighten up. But honestly, you don't have to kill yourself to make good hits.

What the Appleseed is perfectly set up for is teaching the basic skills required to learn to shoot. All of those skills are 100% applicable to precision competition. BUT, you don't need the fancy gear and such to learn to shoot well.