ATF stats show significant increase in number of firearms it's tracing, especially locally

[MaverickNH]

ATF stats show significant increase in number of firearms it's tracing, especially locally

CINCINNATI (WKRC) — Statistics just released from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives show a marked increase in the number of firearms it's tracing after they're recovered from crimes. Over the past six years, the numbers have exploded -- especially locally. In Ohio, in 2014...

local12.com

"Statistics just released from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives show a marked increase in the number of firearms it's tracing after they're recovered from crimes."

This is a local Ohio news source - reasonably balanced as the quote from ATF, Giffords and the Buckeye Firearms Association.

"The ATF stats also show that the length of time has shortened substantially from the date a firearm is sold to when it's used in a crime. It attributes this to aggressive police work and better tracing technology."

So, the "increase" could just as well be attributable to "more aggressive police work and better tracing technology" too. As always, the ATF report notes "Not all firearms used in crime are traced and not all firearms traced are used in crime" but the gun control advocates treat it like quantitative data when to their advantage and whine about it being inaccurate when to their advantage (see article below). They will cling to the increase in guns sold (as measured by background checks) as the cause for increased crime - not blaming progressive bail reforms, de-policing, freeing inmates, refusing to prosecute crimes, etc.

Thousands of Recovered California Crime Guns are Going Untraced

Thousands of guns that were illegally possessed or tied to a suspected crime are likely going untraced by the federal government because law enforcement agencies across the state are failing to properly log them in the state’s firearms database.

www.nbcbayarea.com

"Some detectives who spoke to NBC Bay Area said eTrace wasn’t always fruitful in generating leads in local cases because crime guns are often stolen or bought on the black market."

Police know the eTrace effort is a waste of their scarce time - how many people buy a gun at an FFL, pass a Brady background check, then commit a crime using that gun, with that gun recovered by police for tracing, that then leads them to arrest the buyer? Virtually zero.

 

[nstassel]

This story is a critical component to the Brandon administration effort to make all 4473 forms searchable for nationwide registration. "Our poor ATF has to do all these searches manually, we must scan all the millions of paper 4473s."

 

[paul73]

to make all 4473 forms searchable for nationwide registration

it means federalization of firearms licensing, with a single global repo for all the firearms data. not just searchability.
can they really do it bypassing congress and any legislation?

 

[allen-1]

This story is a critical component to the Brandon administration effort to make all 4473 forms searchable for nationwide registration. "Our poor ATF has to do all these searches manually, we must scan all the millions of paper 4473s."

After living in Connecticut, I was shocked to find out that no paperwork is required for a private party firearm sale in Georgia. I mean that absolutely and literally, "no paperwork". It's not required by the state, and there's no federal law requiring it.

 

[EC1]

it means federalization of firearms licensing, with a single global repo for all the firearms data. not just searchability.
can they really do it bypassing congress and any legislation?

it's obvious that they are doing it already

 

[paul73]

After living in Connecticut, I was shocked to find out that no paperwork is required for a private party firearm sale in Georgia. I mean that absolutely and literally, "no paperwork". It's not required by the state, and there's no federal law requiring it.

a usual bill of sale is due, in MO it was same - just like selling a car. and why would it be any other way?
but you do find out a lot of shit when you move around states.

i even found how it looked like when i had to sell my stuff back then:

Missouri Firearm Bill of Sale Form

A Missouri firearm bill of sale is a legal document proving the transfer of a firearm occurred in Missouri via sale or trade in a manner that abides with the...

eforms.com

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Just because a trace is initiated doesn't mean that it's completed. It can stop anywhere along the line and still count as a "trace". I've seen that happen. The last known owner of the gun (supposedly used in a crime) was easy to find but never contacted. Depends a lot on the level of ambition of those individuals doing the trace. Comes lunch or quitting time, it's easier to just shitcan the info and call it "complete". Jack.

 

[Mesatchornug]

a usual bill of sale is due, in MO it was same - just like selling a car. and why would it be any other way?
but you do find out a lot of shit when you move around states.

i even found how it looked like when i had to sell my stuff back then:

Missouri Firearm Bill of Sale Form

A Missouri firearm bill of sale is a legal document proving the transfer of a firearm occurred in Missouri via sale or trade in a manner that abides with the...

eforms.com

Is that required, or just customary?

 

[paul73]

Is that required, or just customary?

customary, really. it may not be done on a form, a hand written bill of sale also works. but when i got my stuff the guy used the form, so, i did the same. life is simpler out there.
at least it used to be 20 years ago. dunno what is there now.

 

[bigbravehog]

democrats are terrified of an armed populace. Black Friday gun sales show enough firearms sold to arm the US Marine Corps. We need to do more.

 

[SKumar]

Reason #345984 why everyone should get into 80% builds.

It is a known fact, that criminals would rather STEAL regular guns because the time/labor/cost going into building an 80% glock is too much. These moronic politicians think "da ghost gunz are FLOODING the streets"

 

[one-eyed Jack]

This story is a critical component to the Brandon administration effort to make all 4473 forms searchable for nationwide registration. "Our poor ATF has to do all these searches manually, we must scan all the millions of paper 4473s."

Paper 4473s can stay at the dealer for 20 years or when the dealer goes out of biz. ATF agents look at a few 4473s during an audit but do not routinely copy them. ATF encourages but does not mandate that the dealers do the NICS check online . Who knows how long do they keep that in the system? We'll never know. Jack.

 

[Stape]

customary, really. it may not be done on a form, a hand written bill of sale also works. but when i got my stuff the guy used the form, so, i did the same. life is simpler out there.
at least it used to be 20 years ago. dunno what is there now.

I've never seen that form. Private party sales are almost always cash and carry. Meet.up somewhere, pull a gun from the trunk, check it out, then fork over some cash and bid each other a nice day.

How I do it anyways.

 

[nstassel]

After living in Connecticut, I was shocked to find out that no paperwork is required for a private party firearm sale in Georgia. I mean that absolutely and literally, "no paperwork". It's not required by the state, and there's no federal law requiring it.

It's like that in many places. That's why liberals want to have mandatory background checks so that all transfers are in the system, then they can also track them.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

After living in Connecticut, I was shocked to find out that no paperwork is required for a private party firearm sale in Georgia. I mean that absolutely and literally, "no paperwork". It's not required by the state, and there's no federal law requiring it.

My buddy from the "lovely" state of CT just got a visit from police the other day. His 6yo found a spent piece of 22 brass somewhere and took it to school. My friend doesn't even own a 22! They came with a list that showed EVERY gun he owned! Gun registry in full effect...

 

[allen-1]

My buddy from the "lovely" state of CT just got a visit from police the other day. His 6yo found a spent piece of 22 brass somewhere and took it to school. My friend doesn't even own a 22! They came with a list that showed EVERY gun he owned! Gun registry in full effect...

That list is compiled from the DPS-3C forms that are filled out for every legal transfer in CT. 1 copy goes to buyer, 1 to seller, 1 to police chief in town of buyer, 1 to SLFU. SLFU uses those forms to compile that list. They do not ever REMOVE any items from the list, so it's actually a list of all firearms you ever bought in CT, not all firearms you currently posess.

You can request a copy of that list from them. I did.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

SLFU uses those forms to compile that list.

Isn't that illegal?

 

[knoxy]

Is that required, or just customary?

In NH in ME nobody I've dealt with does a bill of sale. Cash for goods. Nothing else. No tracing that shit.

 

[MaverickNH]

In NH in ME nobody I've dealt with does a bill of sale. Cash for goods. Nothing else. No tracing that shit.

As a NH resident, I just ask the buyer to bring their NH DL and PRL or proof of recent background check with them and exchange the firearm for cash or trade when we meet in NH. If they show up in a car with a NH plate, I don’t ask to see their “papers” at the exchange, once they’ve agreed by email - if they offer to show them I’ll glance and say thanks. No records. Other than my email request to document due diligence on my part.

I did have one guy pull up in a car with MA plates once. I said - you are a NH resident, right? And he pulled out his NH DL/PRL and said it wasn’t his car, blah, blah, blah. I didn’t care if he stole the car or what!

 

[knoxy]

As a NH resident, I just ask the buyer to bring their NH DL and PRL or proof of recent background check with them and exchange the firearm for cash or trade when we meet in NH. If they show up in a car with a NH plate, I don’t ask to see their “papers” at the exchange, once they’ve agreed by email - if they offer to show them I’ll glance and say thanks. No records. Other than my email request to document due diligence on my part.

I did have one guy pull up in a car with MA plates once. I said - you are a NH resident, right? And he pulled out his NH DL/PRL and said it wasn’t his car, blah, blah, blah. I didn’t care if he stole the car or what!

Ya, do check for in-state ID, per the law.

 

[enbloc]

ATF stats show significant increase in number of firearms it's tracing,​

 

[enbloc]

 

[240Geezer]

I just seem to aquire them.
Never sold one.
But in NH I'm pretty sure that's the way it goes and I'd be fine with that either way.

 

[TrashcanDan]

After living in Connecticut, I was shocked to find out that no paperwork is required for a private party firearm sale in Georgia. I mean that absolutely and literally, "no paperwork". It's not required by the state, and there's no federal law requiring it.

Same over here.
Bill of sale to cover yourself if its ever found to be used in a crime.
"Nope, sold it to this guy. What he did with it is on him"

 

[AHM]

a usual bill of sale is due, in MO it was same - just like selling a car. and why would it be any other way?
but you do find out a lot of shit when you move around states.

i even found how it looked like when i had to sell my stuff back then:

Missouri Firearm Bill of Sale Form

A Missouri firearm bill of sale is a legal document proving the transfer of a firearm occurred in Missouri via sale or trade in a manner that abides with the...

eforms.com

Are you sure you used the official form?
It's not like those other forms.

• Free Missouri Firearm (Gun) Bill of Sale Form
• Free Missouri Firearm Bill of Sale Form - PDF | Word
• Missouri Firearm Bill of Sale Form Download Printable PDF
• Missouri Firearm/Gun Bill of Sale
• https://images.template.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/16182139/gun-trade-bill-of-sale.pdf
• Missouri Firearm Bill of Sale Form
• missouri firearm bill of sale - PDFSimpli
• Free Missouri Bill of Sale Form - PDF Template | LegalTemplates

In order to minimize your legal exposure,
after you enter all your personal identifying information
about your gun transaction into a total stranger's web site -
be sure to get the resulting printout notarized.

Look at all the wisdumb on eForms®' Free Massachusetts Gun Bill of Sale Form:

A Massachusetts gun bill of sale is a legal document that provides evidence of a legal sale, purchase, or trade of a firearm in the State of Massachusetts. The form establishes a formal change of ownership and includes identifying information about the buyer, seller, and firearm. It requires signatures from the buyer, seller, and two (2) witnesses in the presence of a notary public.​

​

Privately Selling a Firearm​

​

In accordance with MA Gen L ch 140 § 122, only those with a Firearms Dealer License may sell a firearm in the state.​

Prohibited from Buying​

​

Anyone who wants to purchase a firearm in Massachusetts must first obtain a Firearms Identification Card from their municipal police department. ...​

Bolding theirs.

 

[paul73]

Are you sure you used the official form?
It's not like those other forms.

• Free Missouri Firearm (Gun) Bill of Sale Form
• Free Missouri Firearm Bill of Sale Form - PDF | Word
• Missouri Firearm Bill of Sale Form Download Printable PDF
• Missouri Firearm/Gun Bill of Sale
• https://images.template.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/16182139/gun-trade-bill-of-sale.pdf
• Missouri Firearm Bill of Sale Form
• missouri firearm bill of sale - PDFSimpli
• Free Missouri Bill of Sale Form - PDF Template | LegalTemplates

In order to minimize your legal exposure,
after you enter all your personal identifying information
about your gun transaction into a total stranger's web site -
be sure to get the resulting printout notarized.

Look at all the wisdumb on eForms®' Free Massachusetts Gun Bill of Sale Form:

A Massachusetts gun bill of sale is a legal document that provides evidence of a legal sale, purchase, or trade of a firearm in the State of Massachusetts. The form establishes a formal change of ownership and includes identifying information about the buyer, seller, and firearm. It requires signatures from the buyer, seller, and two (2) witnesses in the presence of a notary public.​

​

Privately Selling a Firearm​

​

In accordance with MA Gen L ch 140 § 122, only those with a Firearms Dealer License may sell a firearm in the state.​

Prohibited from Buying​

​

Anyone who wants to purchase a firearm in Massachusetts must first obtain a Firearms Identification Card from their municipal police department. ...​

Bolding theirs.

I have no idea what r u talking about.
It was some empty pdf you print on paper and then write into yourself and sign with the other guy.
A bill of sale. Huh?

Notarized? Double huh?

 

[AHM]

I have no idea what r u talking about.
It was some empty pdf you print on paper and then write into yourself and sign with the other guy.
A bill of sale. Huh?

The site lets you fill in the blanks via a sequence of web forms,
and then renders a PDF with the stuff entered.

Notarized? Double huh?

You're goin' to Bill of Sale Jail...

 

[Zappa]

Paper 4473s can stay at the dealer for 20 years or when the dealer goes out of biz. ATF agents look at a few 4473s during an audit but do not routinely copy them. ATF encourages but does not mandate that the dealers do the NICS check online . Who knows how long do they keep that in the system? We'll never know. Jack.

I'm sure they keep that data stored somewhere, but how useful can the NICS data be since it doesn't contain any info on any specific firearm.
All it shows is this person was background checked on a certain day, by a certain FFL, for a purchase of a long gun or handgun.

 

[Rehoboth Dave]

...requires signatures from the buyer, seller, and two (2) witnesses in the presence of a notary public.

Two witnesses and a government official just to conduct a simple two person transaction between free citizens. If that's not infringement I don't know what is.

 

[AHM]

Two witnesses and a government official just to conduct a simple two person transaction between free citizens. If that's not infringement I don't know what is.

Except that none of it is true in any way.
It's just some ragtime from a "Free Legal Forms" web site.