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ATF Seized my Replica Mini-14

Nick Fury said:
Probably busy digging some mighty big holes...
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Makes me wonder. One post about alleged illegalities involving sale of a questionable item and ATF involvement almost immediately, 5 pages of response questions and replies, and not one reply by the OP, even though he’s been on the site.

If he’s trying to be smart(er) after being told several times to stop talking, then why not ask to have the thread gone?

Sounds like fishing. Not making accusations, just thinking out loud with how people sometimes respond to these types of posts. Someone’s always watching and this thread is weird enough from the start. CYA’s.
 
Well, it’s only been 55 hours in so maybe he’s on a bender and will return responses soon. Many Nes’rs lead alternate lifestyles I’m sure.
 
djbradles said:
Well, it’s only been 55 hours in so maybe he’s on a bender and will return responses soon. Many Nes’rs lead alternate lifestyles I’m sure.
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Anything possible, but he was on 5 hrs ago, just like the Walmart greeter story, something stinks here.
 
For f***'s sake, let's not turn this into drama like it's an active shooter situation, with mandatory updates every 5 sec.

I've seen this dude's posts on classifieds, he has been a member for a while, enough that I recognize his avatar. He asked for input, he got it. There is nothing sinister about his request and there is no reason to delete the thread (which could be resurected by LE anyway)

It would be cool if NESers could ask questions freely and rely on community support without the board going full retard into anunaki lizard people and builderbergers conspiracy theories because OP isn't providing updates. Give the guy some space, if he needs more input he'll ask for it. There is no reason for wanton fear mongering and offering advise on how to survive in prison. ATF has plenty of lower hanging fruit then chasing some guy making a purchase with all laws followed.
 
You are bidding on a REPLICA Ruger Mini 14 (Does NOT Fire)

This is a used REPLICA Ruger Mini 14, This is a FAKE gun, it does NOT FIRE. This was made to be a collectors item, it functions, looks and feels like the real thing. This will require a FFL as that's how it was brought to us.
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Sounds like a mini 14 clone with a plugged barrel or some other minor modification that doesn't make it not a firearm. (Remember kids, "Does NOT Fire" doesn't equal "Not a Firearm" as far as the feds are concerned, regardless of what you may hear from morons or under-cover federal agents.) There are lots of people on the internet looking to sell you a felony for a quick buck or a quick case, this looks like one of them.
 
If you need to ask yourself “ do I need a lawyer” the answer is yes... and STFU... but at the same time this post isn’t a big deal unless The messages between buyer and seller are retarded.

I hate the threads about people’s guns letting out bursts, looking for help and being treated like criminal... there is no intent... and it’s malfunction ... more of a safety issue then a legal issue....

You can get jammed up over anything... it’s when you think it’s cool your guns broken is when it’s a problem.. IMO

As far as sketchy gunbroker deal... the huge joke here is if the buyer and seller didn’t use and FFL my guess is it would have went smoothly.....(and illegally...)
Depending on the model and specs of the firearmnin question the barrels arguably worth more then the rest of the gun .. so a plugged barrel replica is beyond retarded... and I don’t mean just legally..
 
Another one of my theories;
OP bought what he thought was a "replica". That's what the seller said and there was nothing to indicate otherwise. The FFL thing was weird but who cares, it's a replica, the FFL being involved only makes it clearer that everything is OK.
FFL receives "replica", but to them it looks like it could be an unserialized "firearm". So they contact the ATF.
The ATF believes it is a firearm. So they start looking into it. They probably look at the buyer but with no evidence he knew it was anything other than a replica, and that he never took possession, they don't have anything. Besides, they don't want the buyer. They start looking at the seller. If the seller looks to be in the business or selling illegal firearms they will go after him, but more likely they will use him to go after the manufacturer/source.
ATF might want testimony from the OP at some point, but maybe not. They have the shipping/FFL records, they don't really need the OP.

Personally, I'd have a a brief conversation (the free kind) with a lawyer and keep his number handy (having a lawyer's info on you is a good idea in today's world). If he hears from the ATF, contact his lawyer and cooperate (in that order). Otherwise write off the cost as a learning experience.

Just my thoughts IANAL
 
42! said:
Another one of my theories;
OP bought what he thought was a "replica". That's what the seller said and there was nothing to indicate otherwise. The FFL thing was weird but who cares, it's a replica, the FFL being involved only makes it clearer that everything is OK.
FFL receives "replica", but to them it looks like it could be an unserialized "firearm". So they contact the ATF.
The ATF believes it is a firearm. So they start looking into it. They probably look at the buyer but with no evidence he knew it was anything other than a replica, and that he never took possession, they don't have anything. Besides, they don't want the buyer. They start looking at the seller. If the seller looks to be in the business or selling illegal firearms they will go after him, but more likely they will use him to go after the manufacturer/source.
ATF might want testimony from the OP at some point, but maybe not. They have the shipping/FFL records, they don't really need the OP.

Personally, I'd have a a brief conversation (the free kind) with a lawyer and keep his number handy (having a lawyer's info on you is a good idea in today's world). If he hears from the ATF, contact his lawyer and cooperate (in that order). Otherwise write off the cost as a learning experience.

Just my thoughts IANAL
Click to expand...
Great Theory and pretty much hit the nail on the head!
I spoke with ATF agent Tuesday and was over at Guns Inc. yesterday. I purchased the mini on the premise that it is a fake/non-firing replica based on the gunbroker listing that stated it in CAPS a number of times in the ad and had it sent to FFL because the seller requested it in the listing. I have only seen it in pictures and I don't even know if the one that Guns Inc. received was the one that was in the pics. Guns Inc. received a 'replica' that appeared to have actual Ruger markings on it but no serial number. The barrel was plugged but although it had a demilled bolt it had a fully functioning trigger group so they said it appeared that it may be possible to convert it back to a firearm. At this point Guns Inc. had no choice but to contact the ATF because they aren't going to risk their license to transfer a potentially unserialized firearm. The ATF instructed them not to contact me, which gave them time to investigate me and see if I was trying to pull something shady.
In the meantime the mini was sent to DC for testing and it may be another month or 2 before they have a determination. If it is found to be a non-firearm I will finally eventually receive it. If it is found to be an illegally manufactured unserialized firearm I should be in the clear since I didn't manufacture it, sell it, or receive it. The ATF would pursue the seller for selling an unserialized firearm and then go after the manufacturer for illegal manufacturing. Guns Inc. did the right thing by contacting the ATF and I'm glad I had it shipped there instead of directly to me. I want nothing to do with it if it turns out to be something illegal.
I printed a paper copy of the original listing so if I get a call from the ATF I can point them in the right direction but I have no reason to lawyer up at this point in time since I personally didn't do anything wrong. The ATF should have enough information to go after the seller/manufacturer without me if needed but there is always the possibility that I may be called as a witness. Either way this is an open investigation and it'll be awhile before I find out what the outcome is. Although I'm not doing anything illegal I still don't like having a folder with my name on it at the ATF.

Please don't harass Guns Inc. they just did what they were legally obligated to do to cover their own asses in this unusual circumstance and they have been as accommodating as the ATF is allowing them to be. They are basically stuck in the middle between the seller and the ATF just like I am.

Mods, feel free to delete this thread if you want. I just wanted to share my story of how I ended up on an ATF watch list because I tried to buy a wall hanger for my man cave but this is turning into a thread of conspiracies and finger pointing.
 
So OP never actually had it in his possession, right? Guns, Inc was the receiver and OP's only wrongdoing was paying for what he thought was a replica off of GB?

I'd tell the ATF and FFL to go pound sand. Spend that "lawyer" money on a real Mini-14.
 
Nafets said:
Mods, feel free to delete this thread if you want. I just wanted to share my story of how I ended up on an ATF watch list because I tried to buy a wall hanger for my man cave but this is turning into a thread of conspiracies and finger pointing.
Click to expand...

I will follow your wishes. If you want me to delete this thread, I'll delete it. If you don't care or you want it to remain, then I will leave it.
 
Illuminati and possibly annunaki are likely involved.

Unsure about Tri-Lateral Commission.

:D

OP is in the clear.

OP not going to jail.

Guns Inc. is ok.

ATF doing their job.


We need to keep this thread up due to good entertainment value and education value.
 
new guy said:
I can't believe you guys think that's actually OP who just posted the follow-up and not the ATF agents who seized his computer and account.
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Oh that IS the OP still. He has just been persuaded to be an informant in exchange for not getting put in jail.

/jk
 
Greschner 4 said:
Furthermore, the NES mantra of "lawyering up" at all costs is, at best, crappy advice.
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It is good, if expensive, advice. You will be unlikely to talk yourself into a problem with police if your only words to them are "I can't answer any questions until my lawyer is here"
 
firestorm said:
It is good, if expensive, advice. You will be unlikely to talk yourself into a problem with police if your only words to them are "I can't answer any questions until my lawyer is here"
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Point is, always STFU. If you need to hire a lawyer, the "circumstances" will dictate as such.
 
Greschner 4 said:
Point is, always STFU. If you need to hire a lawyer, the "circumstances" will dictate as such.
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By that time, it is a little late.

It is good to have a conversation with a lawyer and keep his business card, just in case. At least you have someone to call that met you once.
 
Greschner 4 said:
Point is, always STFU. If you need to hire a lawyer, the "circumstances" will dictate as such.
Click to expand...

While this is true, calling a lawyer out of the blue that you have never spoken to before might be a bit of a crapshoot. How do you choose a lawyer without any time to research or talk to anyone else about your choice? Especially under the stress of having agents of the state badgering you to answer questions. Seems like a bad time to be making important choices about who represents you.
 
I donated to Comm2A and keep them on speed dial favorites. That’s not pay for play is it? [rofl]
 
firestorm said:
While this is true, calling a lawyer out of the blue that you have never spoken to before might be a bit of a crapshoot. How do you choose a lawyer without any time to research or talk to anyone else about your choice? Especially under the stress of having agents of the state badgering you to answer questions. Seems like a bad time to be making important choices about who represents you.
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IANAL, just an informed consumer and hopeful lawyer-to be.

You don't want to be appointed a lawyer. Period. If you're appointed a lawyer, you're going to get whoever's on duty that day. I'll caveat this with if you're on welfare, unemployed, or dealing with significant financial issues: in those cases, you want a public defender. Public defenders receive good training and have an office of colleagues to bounce ideas off each other. Not saying private counsel doesn't, it's just that PDs tend to do what they do out of passion for the job (until burnout hits) and to help each other fairly often. PDs also make more complex legal arguments more often than your average court appointed lawyer. However, most people aren't eligible for a PD, so most people should have a clue as to a lawyer they would hire should SHTF.

Also, lawyers know what clients should and should not say. Do you want to talk to ATF or the cops yourself or do you want some help? Do you understand the 4th Amendment and case law around it and the state equivalent? Do you know what statements are admissible and inadmissible? Do you know what police coercion is? Most people don't.

It's like paying for any other good or service: you can either do research up front (support Comm2A for Mass guys) or you can hope you get something good when you need it. Put it this way, would you rather buy a tool that works or would you rather run down to Harbor Freight and see what they have?
 
Nafets said:
I printed a paper copy of the original listing so if I get a call from the ATF I can point them in the right direction but I have no reason to lawyer up at this point in time since I personally didn't do anything wrong.
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I just want to say that many (innocent) people have found themselves in the same position and ended up being arrested, solely because they talked. The fact that you know you have done nothing wrong is not relevant to whether someone in government thinks you did or not. If they want to interview you or talk to you, it would be wise to not accept and consult an attorney at that time.
 

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