ATF Raids Polymer 80

I would say there are 3 reasons people don't take the pound sand route.

1) They know nothing about the legal system or how it operates. This includes very basic things like "don't talk to the police". They believe TV and that if they are good people, the "system" could never punish them.

2) They do know the law, but don't have money/legal representation to either mitigate a real search warrant return or fight a prolonged battle in court. They know they are right but cannot commit YEARS to a dragged out fight. Becuase it will be YEARS.

3) Extending on the last part of #2, they are professional/family people and they cannot afford the 100% pure evil destruction of their lives by losing jobs, spouses/kods being ostracized, going into debt, etc.

Thus "handing it over" is the least painful injustice. Becuase even if they can win in court years later, they will NEVER be made whole. EVER.
There could he a 4th. They actually come back with a warrant and find something you may not want found. Maybe something on the fringes.

Use your imagination....
 
There could he a 4th. They actually come back with a warrant and find something you may not want found. Maybe something on the fringes.

Use your imagination....

Well you make them come back and odds are if yoy don't have a lawyer onsite there is a reasonable chance they basically destroy your house and try to jam yoy on something.

I'll give yoy a number 5 if we're exploring possibilities.

5) You force them to get a warrant. You then set an ambush and wait for them to come back.
 
Well you make them come back and odds are if yoy don't have a lawyer onsite there is a reasonable chance they basically destroy your house and try to jam yoy on something.

I'll give yoy a number 5 if we're exploring possibilities.

5) You force them to get a warrant. You then set an ambush and wait for them to come back.
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Hat tip: Instapundit reader Governor-Elect Eric Fish
 
the important part revolves solely around the fact that with or without the additional parts/tools/etc the "Receiver Blank" for a P80 still cannot be "Readily Converted" to be fit remaining parts including FCG, Slide, Barrel/etc without significant manufacturing/modification into a working firearm capable of firing a boolit
This thread got off into Attilla-land (I also didn't know he went to the Dark Side, but I do miss some of his avatars).

You're right: that is the important part. And if ATF actually looked at manufacturing time, any so-called "80%" kit takes more like 80% of the kit-builder's time to finish.

Every single build kit out there meets the ATF definition of "substantial efforts" to complete into a functioning firearm capable of launching boollits. Including these, which have all the stuff in one box.

The ATF claim that they could be "assembled in minutes" is utter bullstuff.
 
This thread got off into Attilla-land (I also didn't know he went to the Dark Side, but I do miss some of his avatars).

You're right: that is the important part. And if ATF actually looked at manufacturing time, any so-called "80%" kit takes more like 80% of the kit-builder's time to finish.

Every single build kit out there meets the ATF definition of "substantial efforts" to complete into a functioning firearm capable of launching boollits. Including these, which have all the stuff in one box.

The ATF claim that they could be "assembled in minutes" is utter bullstuff.
The whole thing is bullshit but me and my cordless drill and cordless dremel can do a p80 in like 10 minutes. I am not aware of what statute or regulation talks assembly time by an experienced 07...
 
If one is uncomfortable saying "No" to authorities the right play would probably be something along the lines of:

"I do not wish to speak with you, or allow you access into my home, until I consult an attorney"

They can always detain you if there really is cause, or cause that they claim anyway. But unless they actually plan on arresting you, detaining someone who isn't going to entertain a conversation is kinda a waste of time.

Any lawyer you speak with is going to say no no no no! And for good reason. Even if you were willing to turn in what they are looking for, a lawyer can negotiate an eloquent way.
 
So similar to Honey Badger, this is BATFE getting pissy about advertising an 'approved" item but not submitting the new variant of the kit for the tech branch to play with.
Yep, seems like their real offense was not asking "Mother may I?" beforehand.
 
A word about Atilla: I met the guy and his GF at Searstown way back when I swapped out my stock on the S&W M&P ORC, he needed a fixed stock and didn’t care if it was generic (I swapped to one with cheek risers). Nice enough guy.

In regards to ATF:

All you guys who are saying ‘Glad I didn’t buy one of those kits’.......have you bought individual pieces (like from 5D)? Have you bought 80% AR lowers?

You best decide now how you are going to handle the knock in the door.
 
A word about Atilla: I met the guy and his GF at Searstown way back when I swapped out my stock on the S&W M&P ORC, he needed a fixed stock and didn’t care if it was generic (I swapped to one with cheek risers). Nice enough guy.

In regards to ATF:

All you guys who are saying ‘Glad I didn’t buy one of those kits’.......have you bought individual pieces (like from 5D)? Have you bought 80% AR lowers?

You best decide now how you are going to handle the knock in the door.
Cash is king.
Support your local retail.
 
ROFL

You have any idea how many "Receiver Blanks" have been sold over the last couple decades?

That doesnt even begin to take into account the fact that there's no requirement to keep records

That level of effort/investigation would be like banning flannel sheets and expecting the ministry of magic to track down the purchasers over the last 30 years
Not to mention, there is NOTHING illegal about an 80% lower, purchasing one, or 100 of them.
 

Insertion or just your basic grope? And you're going to need a lot more dolls... [rofl]

For those of us who remember the NES shoots, it's a toss up between Atilla and Warwickben for the most entertaining award.

If Atilla's account is still listed, I double dog dare mods to alter his avatar to this:

gummy_penis_300_1024x1024.jpg


Some of you know the connection.

*** ***

Back on topic. Looks like the Midway build kits are sold out or perhaps pulled? Good luck chasing down all the Midway customers.

In the current climate, one stop shopping for the P80 and all the parts to complete it was a great idea. ATF has to know this one is total spaghetti on the wall. They are just seeing what sticks. Unchecked limited power will eventually morph into absolute power, so time for the feds to get their pee-pees slapped.
 
I'll give Broc this much... The guy was a total douche nozzle. But he helped me with an error on a form 1 that could have been a nightmare.

There's too much animosity there though for the claimed offense. I have to wonder if Broc and Atilla were... Actually that makes a lot of sense. Till was gay as Julius Ceasar...

I guess my little meme hit a little closer than I realized :eek:

Yep, see my previous post LOLOL.
 
As stated, buying something without a background check isn't the buyers problem.

In this instance to me it sounds like they are building a case against P80. Why is the question - I'm sure they would have freely admitted what they were selling and instead contended that it is legal.

It is possible though if such records are available they may go and try to hunt down PP's - using CC records it might not be very hard for them to identify low hanging fruit like registered sex offenders, those on parole/probation, etc
 
not to pat myself on the back...but I said last month that everyone should be buying jigs and lowers while it was possible...looks like that window is closing. Buy em now.

A complete, functional lower costs around ten cents and ten minutes to make and will last 1000 rounds or so. If you don't mind swapping your lower parts kit from one to the next every thousand or so rounds, then look around for the article on casting plastic AR lowers using Legos for the form walls. (Doesn't have to be legos. Shingles or cereal boxes will do just as well)
 
I think maybe ATF should be merged with ICE. That way conservatives and liberals would each want to fund one half, and disband the other. If it was a merged organization with one budget, then fund it or defund it would be a tough choice for everyone.

Of course, any merged acronym would come out way too long, so I think we should just pick one letter from each name and call the new organization CF.
 
These radical groups we hear so much about need to focus on the cutting the funds for ATF like they do for Ice and the police;)
 
I think maybe ATF should be merged with ICE. That way conservatives and liberals would each want to fund one half, and disband the other. If it was a merged organization with one budget, then fund it or defund it would be a tough choice for everyone.

Of course, any merged acronym would come out way too long, so I think we should just pick one letter from each name and call the new organization CF.
I’d gladly say no more ICE if it meant no more ATF and less restrictions on 2A.
 
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